Motor Israel 10.5:1 1000cc kit

bernardofeio

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hello

Has you know I’ve been looking for a solution that will give me more torque at low speed.

I look for several solutions including displacement increase, compression increase but with a tight budget

If I didn’t need barrels Richard Moore would be the best price/power solution (eventually some ping problems)

Since I need the barrels Moto Israel 10.5:1 and Richard Moore were very similar price solutions.

I decided that I would go to Richard M but he was out of barrels so after more then one month I when to Motor Israel Kit

First comments: This is a MAHLE motorsport engineering design but nowadays is being sold with MAHLE barrels and Wossner pistons and pistons rings. The barrels are very good but the pistons are not up to Mahle standards. I’m only referring to end product finish look. Most probably the performance will be similar (I would like very much to compare the pistons with the ones from Richard M.)

Installation remarks:
The kit should came with installing instructions since I lost to much time with small details like wrong push rod pipes installation (I will give details if any one is interested)
To avoid more costs I decided to modify myself the barrel bolts and push rods. Easy job but will had a couple of hours to the total installation time.

Since I work in the piston ring area I also lost some time with unnecessary measurements.

After two working evenings I started the engine. The lightness of the engine is instantly noticeable as the engine reacts mush faster. Will see about power/torque and fuel consumption…

I only did one km so no more results for now.

For now I will not touch the carbs to avoid miss results

bernardo feio
 
bernardofeio said:
hello

Has you know I’ve been looking for a solution that will give me more torque at low speed.

I look for several solutions including displacement increase, compression increase but with a tight budget

If I didn’t need barrels Richard Moore would be the best price/power solution (eventually some ping problems)

Since I need the barrels Moto Israel 10.5:1 and Richard Moore were very similar price solutions.

I decided that I would go to Richard M but he was out of barrels so after more then one month I when to Motor Israel Kit

First comments: This is a MAHLE motorsport engineering design but nowadays is being sold with MAHLE barrels and Wossner pistons and pistons rings. The barrels are very good but the pistons are not up to Mahle standards. I’m only referring to end product finish look. Most probably the performance will be similar (I would like very much to compare the pistons with the ones from Richard M.)

Installation remarks:
The kit should came with installing instructions since I lost to much time with small details like wrong push rod pipes installation (I will give details if any one is interested)
To avoid more costs I decided to modify myself the barrel bolts and push rods. Easy job but will had a couple of hours to the total installation time.

Since I work in the piston ring area I also lost some time with unnecessary measurements.

After two working evenings I started the engine. The lightness of the engine is instantly noticeable as the engine reacts mush faster. Will see about power/torque and fuel consumption…

I only did one km so no more results for now.

For now I will not touch the carbs to avoid miss results

bernardo feio
Click to expand...

Yes please. More details and pictures too if possible.
If you struggled with a lack of instructions then others will too so your experiences, hints and tips will prove invaluable to anyone else fitting this kit. :thumb2
 
Some details of the installation:

Inlet and exhaust pipes

I had some fears with those items but those were very easiest assemble. To be honest the tubes between the inlet and the air filter fit better now and were easier to assemble then with the standard cylinders…

Concerning the exhaust you only have to unbolt the connection pipe between the two main pipes and you will have no problem.

The problem with the push rod tubes is that you should only push them into the cylinders till they reach the top surface of the cylinder. They are machined to go more then that but after you can not install the head and you can not pull them back…
(if you put them in the freezer they are easy to install)

Just one more detail concerning the piston rings.

The second groove ring gap should always be similar or superior then the gap of the first groove to avoid “fluctuation” problems. If the gap is too small in the second groove some pressure will be created between the two grooves and the fist (top) one will not seal properly.

With Wosner piston rings this was the case. To solve this the gap in the second groove should be increased or you should assemble a top ring with smaller gap… (ideally something like top=0.15(+0.10)mm and second=0.30(+0.20)mm)
 
Are you mixing units here - 0.15 mm is six thousands of an inch and you would want a bit more than that, and even 0.25 mm is ten thou and still closer than most folk recommend.
 
hello

No I’m not :)

ISO(66622-2-2003) says 0,30mm+0,25mm for a piston ring with 94.00-1.00-3.45 (D-W-R)

But with aluminium cylinders we normally use 0.15mm+0.10mm
 
hello

With the normal compression pistons the pressure in the combustion chamber should be around 9-7.5bar

with 10,5:1 compression what should be the pressure?

thks
 
the engines that I have built with 11-1 comp, and a 308 cam have about 13.5 to 14 bar. if this helps. I know from using a lot of wiseco and arias pistons in the past that the compression that they quote is normally a lot higher then you get. thats why I had my pistons made.
 
Richie... you make nice looking bikes. If I ever find a good donor bike I'll be in touch (I won't ask how much because that would just crush my dreams!)

:hijacked
 
Yesterday night I decided to go and measure the actual pressure with Motor Israel 10,5:1 kit

I measured in both cylinders ~10,5 bar.

(I didn’t remove the carbs but measured it with full open throttle)

After the fist measure I add some drops of oil in the cylinder and the pressure didn’t increase.

(When I installed the kit I didn’t touch the heads so I could be loosing some pressure thru the valves?)

When I’ll have some € to spare I will ask Richard to overall and freeflow the bike heads

all the other parts in the engine are R100GS original
 
If you wanted torque thensurely you should have gone for lower compression ?

Higher compression ratios are usually reserved for competition engines

If you look at the R80ST I believe it's a low compression engine and will pull you around all day in a higher gear than an equivalent G/S
 
hello

I’m not an expert but if you look for torque/power curves with a compression increase you will get a torque/power increase

BTW you can not increase power and not increase torque Power=Torque*RPM
 
as you have 10.5 bar on both cylinders I suspect the valves are ok, the kit you have could be a bit down on the ratio that they state as I found many times. not many people check it, they just fit it and use it , and as it normally goes a bit better they are happy.
 
The Wossner pistons dont have a squish band, and mine were at BMW Type clearances at the perimiter, that is, a bit over 2mm/80 thou. Pity the couldnt have machined the valve pockets to BMWs shape.

I read somewhere that this is because at high revs the crankcase deflects and the pistons contact the head if you have less than 70 thou clearance - but Richie is probable the best person to tell us if that actually happens ----
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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