Nano ceramic coating

[madmechanic]

Started getting into high end valeting 18 months ago and used a number of different waxes , sealants and ceramics , The main time factor is not applying the ceramic coating but getting the surface perfect before . Ceramic dries like a thin layer of glass onto surface making very smooth so dirt and water does not stick to it so any marks or imperfections are sealed in and cannot be removed after easily.
The main mistake after is If you wash the vehicle any time after with a wax shampoo or wax you vehicle you then loose the effect I use a Ph neutral wash and a bike blow drier and the resault is a bike that looks like it has been fully waxed every time (no water marks or streaks)

 

[squibb34]

Some guys in the US are recommending the next gen coating, 303 Graphene: -

........... https://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/303-...MIsYn5jcKh7wIVkrrtCh0sGg2lEAQYBSABEgJCrPD_BwE

Anyone tried it yet?

 

[Supershield Automotive]

I am a little sceptical of this as my neighbour had his new GS1250 ceramic coated from new at the dealers at a cost of £300 on top of the sale price.
18 months later he says you cannot tell it has been done. He does use his bike all year round but in his words ‘It was a total waste of money’. He mentioned the ‘guarantee to the dealer on his last service and they said ‘It was subjective, it did look a little more shiny!’
I’m sure there are different standards of application/finish, but not for me.
Good to see/hear different views.

Hi, firstly the dealers will use the cheaper off the shelf ceramics which are easy to apply but are cheap and don’t last long. Secondly they charge a fortune and don’t do a good job as they don’t have time. However tell you neighbour to use some iron remover/fallout cleaner as if the coating hasn’t had this treatment for a while it will stop it working at its optimum. If that doesn’t work then it’s probably just a short lifespan product.

The coating we use has a 10year guarantee with it. Not just ‘it might last’ or should last. It’s not SI02 based so is much stronger and tougher than an off the shelf product. That’s why we opted to use it.

 

[Supershield Automotive]

Some guys in the US are recommending the next gen coating, 303 Graphene: -

........... https://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/303-...MIsYn5jcKh7wIVkrrtCh0sGg2lEAQYBSABEgJCrPD_BwE

Anyone tried it yet?

Yes. So far not found any of them to be any better than our polsilazane based ceramic. As when ceramic coatings started there is a long way to go before they can actually get a single 2D Graphine atom to bond to a surface while linking with the others around creating an uninterrupted sheet over the surface. They are using Graphine oxide mixed with sio2 in most coatings and some are literally putting grains of Graphine into existing ceramic coatings and calling them Graphine coatings! Another mine field created which will lead to years of more scepticism and all products will be tarred with the same brush. Eg my mate had it done and it was rubbish so all ceramics don’t work!

The research and development of polisilazane ceramics starts in 1964. A few years ago they perfected a technique to create the ceramic we are using now. Hopefully The development of Graphine will be quicker!

 

[Supershield Automotive]

If I needed my bike to be thoroughly cleaned (and I didn't have time or inclination to do it myself) I'd happily pay someone to spend 8 hours cleaning it. Just not sure I'd pay extra for a coating that seems surrounded in mystery, jargon, and lots of sales patter.

The response that a similar coating, undoubtedly accompanied by all the same sales pitch, wasn't worth the money is "I use a different and much better kind of nano ceramic coating." I very much doubt any of the purveyors sell their product on the basis that it isn't one of the good ones.

Personally, I think I'll wait for the new hyper-micro-nano ceramic coatings to come onto the market. Until then it'll be a sunny few hours on the drive, radio on, a bit of elbow grease and Autoglym for me.

In the meantime, if anyone wants to come and do half my car or bike, split right down the middle, so I can make a genuine and documented comparison of results, I'll consider it.

I’d be happy to do do 1/2 your bike or car but it will look a bit silly? Happy to show you anytime what you are missing on any customers vehicle that we do.

The purveyors sell their products at all different levels. You can buy cheap rubbish and expensive rubbish but if you do your research you shroud find that there are many good off the shelf products that do a good job and you can apply at home. Also a little research online will show that polisilazane based ceramics are known to be much better than sio2 based products. But you can remove sio2 based products from vehicles if you make a mistake. You can’t easily remove a Polisilazane based ceramic. That’s why it doesn’t get sold to the public.

 

[Supershield Automotive]

I am in the north west. Approximately 5 mins from junction 27. Me and a mate of mine would be interested.

Hi, sure, please email me [email protected] or call 07958592318 anytime and we can discuss the logistics etc.

We still have a few places left between 22nd and 25th in Sheffield or we can arrange a specific group booking for you.

Kind regards,
Peter

 

[Supershield Automotive]

Started getting into high end valeting 18 months ago and used a number of different waxes , sealants and ceramics , The main time factor is not applying the ceramic coating but getting the surface perfect before . Ceramic dries like a thin layer of glass onto surface making very smooth so dirt and water does not stick to it so any marks or imperfections are sealed in and cannot be removed after easily.
The main mistake after is If you wash the vehicle any time after with a wax shampoo or wax you vehicle you then loose the effect I use a Ph neutral wash and a bike blow drier and the resault is a bike that looks like it has been fully waxed every time (no water marks or streaks)

I agree. It’s all in the prep. The right methods, the right tools and the right materials leads to a good finish.

Then you want to preserve it. After spending all the time preparing a vehicle you want to use the best product you can to to preserve the finish you have achieved for the longest time possible. Ceramics are by far the best way to protect a vehicle. Finding a good ceramic is therefore important. Always check the quality of the ceramic. Ask for testing certificates, guarantees which are unambiguous and ask what it covers.

Then you still need to look after your coating. Clean it properly to keep it in the best working order. Use the right products in the right order when they are needed. Finish the clean with ph neutral shampoos which will remove any residue from the cleaning products used along the way allowing the coating to perform at its best.

 

[Supershield Automotive]

I very much suspect this would do just as well.

https://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/products/gyeon-q2-syncro


Lot of work doing it yourself, mind.

Yes It’s a lot of work to prepare the vehicle let alone coat it. That geyon coating needs 2-3 layers, won’t cover anything other than your paintwork and lasts UP TO 2 years! It’s no good on plastics, rubber, metals, exhausts, wheels, callipers etc. You’ll have to buy all their products (lasting up to a year) to give a complete coverage (still not exhausts or callipers) and you are looking at 4-5 different products costing around £180. Plus the interior protection kit on top for cars. Then the polishing machines, pads, compounds, and all the cleaners, brushes, cloths, etc just to get the vehicle prepared properly (no point in coating of the prep hasnÂ’t been done properly) and you are looking in well in excess of what it costs to have it done professionally. A single Rupes polisher machine is £360-£500.

Then if you make a mistake or ruin your paintwork it’s a claim on your own insurance to get put right.

Suddenly £350 or £299 to fully prepare and coat your bike with a guarantee of 7 or 10 years on all surfaces backed by certification of testing from Boeing and SGS doesn’t seem so bad. Only have to google polysilazane to see it’s known for being much hardier than sio2 products and will far outlast them. So there is a big difference in products. Always worth doing your homework.

 

[Supershield Automotive]

Yes. So far not found any of them to be any better than our polysilazane based ceramic. As when ceramic coatings started there is a long way to go before they can actually get a single 2D Graphine atom to bond to a surface while linking with the others around creating an uninterrupted sheet over the surface. They are using Graphine oxide mixed with sio2 in most coatings and some are literally putting grains of Graphine into existing ceramic coatings and calling them Graphine coatings! Another mine field created which will lead to years of more scepticism and all products will be tarred with the same brush. Eg my mate had it done and it was rubbish so all ceramics don’t work!

The research and development of polysilazane ceramics starts in 1964. A few years ago they perfected a technique to create the ceramic we are using now. Hopefully The development of Graphine will be quicker!

 

[Supershield Automotive]

I’d be happy to do do 1/2 your bike or car but it will look a bit silly? Happy to show you anytime what you are missing on any customers vehicle that we do.

The purveyors sell their products at all different levels. You can buy cheap rubbish and expensive rubbish but if you do your research you shroud find that there are many good off the shelf products that do a good job and you can apply at home. Also a little research online will show that polisilazane based ceramics are known to be much better than sio2 based products. But you can remove sio2 based products from vehicles if you make a mistake. You can’t easily remove a Polysilazane based ceramic. That’s why it doesn’t get sold to the public

 

[Supershield Automotive]

I’d be happy to do do 1/2 your bike or car but it will look a bit silly? Happy to show you anytime what you are missing on any customers vehicle that we do.

The purveyors sell their products at all different levels. You can buy cheap rubbish and expensive rubbish but if you do your research you shroud find that there are many good off the shelf products that do a good job and you can apply at home. Also a little research online will show that polisilazane based ceramics are known to be much better than sio2 based products. But you can remove sio2 based products from vehicles if you make a mistake. You can’t easily remove a Polysilazane based ceramic. That’s why it doesn’t get sold to the public.

 

[yofi]

I’d be happy to do do 1/2 your bike or car but it will look a bit silly? Happy to show you anytime what you are missing on any customers vehicle that we do.

The purveyors sell their products at all different levels. You can buy cheap rubbish and expensive rubbish but if you do your research you shroud find that there are many good off the shelf products that do a good job and you can apply at home. Also a little research online will show that polisilazane based ceramics are known to be much better than sio2 based products. But you can remove sio2 based products from vehicles if you make a mistake. You can’t easily remove a Polysilazane based ceramic. That’s why it doesn’t get sold to the public.

Woah, let's back up here. It's the case that companies such as Gyeon and Gtechniq reserve certain products for the hands of professionals as, for example, crystal serum black cannot be so easily removed with polishing (rather than sanding) as crystal light. It is NOT the case, however, that polysilazane based products are kept for the preserve of professionals - plenty enough prosumer silica products out there with polysilazane bases - and Gyeon Mohs is one of them (as is their professional-grade Flash product).

 

[Mr Bean]

Suddenly £350 or £299 to fully prepare and coat your bike with a guarantee of 7 or 10 years on all surfaces backed by certification of testing from Boeing and SGS doesn’t seem so bad. Only have to google polysilazane to see it’s known for being much hardier than sio2 products and will far outlast them. So there is a big difference in products. Always worth doing your homework.

As you have mentioned certification from Boeing and SGS a number of times, what does this certification show, in practical terms?

 

[yofi]

http://blog.regalvalet.my/2015/10/16/gyeon-quartz-officially-tested-and-certified-by-ktr-and-sgs/

 

[Mr Bean]

http://blog.regalvalet.my/2015/10/16/gyeon-quartz-officially-tested-and-certified-by-ktr-and-sgs/

Thank you and good to see a bit of honesty there.

"GYEON Quartz ceramic quartz coatings have passed rigorous testing and are officially certified by the world’s two leading verification, testing and certification companies, the Korean Testing and Research Institute (KTR) and SGS Taiwan. We do not often boast of this because in our opinion, whilst important, what these tests prove are merely the state and condition of the coated substrates at the very beginning. They do not demonstrate a product’s durability or hardiness; and neither do those pieces of paper guarantee performance 6, 10, or 24 months down the road. In other words, you couldn’t tell from these reports whether or not the coating will ‘crack under pressure’ in due time. So while certifications are a good starting point in determining the potential worthiness of a product or the reputability of its manufacturer, they tell only a partial story."

We often have products tested by UKAS accredited labs and it's well known in our industry that 'test samples' are provided that bear no relation to real life performance or durability.

We had tested (UKAS lab) 7 different lots of a product claiming compliance, with certs, to an EN norm. Not one of the 7 lots passed the first stages. They had TUV certs.

 

[Deleted account 210609001]

Does anyone have any first-hand experience of claiming on a warranty seven or ten years down the line and getting the vehicle redone to original standards?

 

[Supershield Automotive]

Woah, let's back up here. It's the case that companies such as Gyeon and Gtechniq reserve certain products for the hands of professionals as, for example, crystal serum black cannot be so easily removed with polishing (rather than sanding) as crystal light. It is NOT the case, however, that polysilazane based products are kept for the preserve of professionals - plenty enough prosumer silica products out there with polysilazane bases - and Gyeon Mohs is one of them (as is their professional-grade Flash product).

Ok, not sure what your point is? We were comparing off the shelf and professional products. Mostly, off the self products are not Polysilazane based. I don’t know what the chemical composition of Geyon Q2 MOHS is but it lasts up to 2 years. As I said before it’s a nice product to use and gives a good finish but it requires multiple layers and doesn’t cover all materials and surfaces. Gtechniq has some good products but again they are multi layered and you’ll need to buy several products to do the job.

Therefore after much research and real world testing we choose to use a different product that does everything and that gives us a 7 year guarantee on used and 10 year guarantee on new vehicles. So far we have been really impressed with the product we are now using. There are plenty of good ceramic products out there and plenty of rubbish ones too. I love to try different products and if I find a better one that’s the one I use. I will be looking at the Gtechniq crystal cerium ultra
soon but it has a 9year expectancy. Not sure if it’s a guarantee? And again it’s layered not a single coat application and doesn’t cover all surfaces.

 

[Supershield Automotive]

According to the company that produce the coating the test results mean that the scientists can tell them that to be safe (ie not get sued or have lots of customers returning with a failed product) that the safe amount of guarantee to give is 7years on used vehicles and 10 on new.

The SGS testing only goes to 9H and now a lot of ceramics will reach this level of hardness. There is no10h as that is diamond and is not tested so be weary of anyone claiming 10h!

Personally I think there should be a new test to show hardness and scratch resistance.

What we have found is that 9H hardness levels should stop swirl marks and light scratches forming from washing especially if you have a good washing system. Also it allows the easy removal of transferred paint and marks. Eg rubber from motorcycle boots on the cowling, a permanent marker can be simply wiped off etc.

The Boeing tests show chemical resistance and heat resistance. The coating scored the best scores they have seen in a coating so far and so they are now applying it to aircraft for a number of of different reasons.

 

[Supershield Automotive]

I presume you work for Gyeon?

Yes that is what it says on the Gyeon website. They don’t think their test results are important. They
give a 2 year estimate on the life span of their product as they don’t know how long it will last. At the time of testing the product received a rating for scratch resistance but that can’t tell you how long it will stay that way. Seems fair. Boeing test over a period of time like a lot of other companies do, so can estimate the lifespan of a product. Therefore SGS MOHS testing on its own is not enough.

I agree the certification on its own is not enough. Find a decent product, from a good company, that works well and test it yourself! Also keep testing others to see if there is something better. If you find something then use it instead? Best for the customers that rely on you for a good job.

ISO/EN/TUV relate to the company standards and the safety of a product so mean absolutely nothing. Just tells you the company should be well run and employees well trained and the product is safe for use etc. Doesn’t tell you the life expectancy of a product or if it’s actually any good.

If you were selling a product you would real world test it and have it put through it’s paces so that you didn’t have loads of claims against you? The owner of supremecoat has over 20 years experience in this field and knows how and where to test the product he produces. They test them against the competition constantly. They had all the initial testing carried out (lab and real world) and from the results concluded that to be safe and err on the side of caution, they would offer a 7 or 10 year guarantee. When asked, Supremecoat have supplied me with all the testing results, videos, reports etc that I wanted to see as an accredited applicator of their product. They are continually, testing and refining the products to make them even better and are always keen for feedback from real world use.

I like the company and it’s product.

 

[smudger64]

Had my bike done today by Gavin from Supershield.
Bloody hell that bloke cleaned my bike! Took him from 9am to 7pm and am very impressed with the attention to detail and the overall service, from both him and Peter.
Too early to vouch for how efficient the ceramic coat is of course, but from everything so far I’d highly recommend them.

Now off to the West Country for a much needed ride.