Hubcap
Registered user
Precisely.
No. It's definitely crap.
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Precisely.
Hubcap
Registered user
John, Even the original iPhone had a manual of just 2 pages. Users were able to switch it on and use it with no previous experience at all. It have been would be laughable to suggest that they needed to read a 20 page manual.
The fact that new Nav6 users need to read (and somehow mentally recall when needed) a 20 page manual and also consult forums, supports the argument that the Nav6 is very low down on the intuitive design scale, rather than users being learning averse. The tech world has moved on and just about every other consumer tech product is usable out of the box without needing to read and retain a 20 page manual. The latest iPhone is way more complex than a Nav6 in terms of what it does and is capable of, yet the designers have made it way more simple to use, so your complexity argument is not a strong one.
And arguing that new owners should either suck it up and learn the hard way, or return their product and give up, does not resolve the issue that the user experience the Nav6 is utter shite compared to most other contemporary tech products such as the iPhone, which through their sheer ubiquity, sets consumer expectations.
Hubcap
Registered user
Replied to these points as a new post
in layers in the book and on the device, I get
places along the road
3d buildings
3d terrain
traffic
trip log
maybe I'm stupid, but none of those seem too intuitively say turn off MacDonald's and such crap from the screen.
if I go into each of those 4 layers (5 if u include trip log) looking for ability to change stuff there is nothing that appears to let me play just a silly shrunk map with + and - buttons ???
The only nag I want is petrol stations, I can work out the rest myself.
And the clock isn't in 24hrs that makes me angry.
And can you kill max speed from vehicle info page? It was displayed on the speedo when I reached it, I don't need a record after the event. I'm not 3 years old any more...
The Grey One
Registered user
So basically a product is shite if you can't get it to do what you want straight out of the box? I think you missed the point about my smartphone comparison. As you said yourself early versions were simple so you could do basic functions very quickly. You use that knowledge to use the far more complex later models. That is what I and other do with our SatNavs. We build on what we already know. My point still stands, someone coming straight from a '90s handset to the latest top of the range smartphone would have a steep learning curve to deal with. I was comparing this with someone coming afresh to a device like the Nav 6
Actually you could use a Nav 6 for basic stuff without reading much. Even for the more advanced stuff a 20 page manual is hardly difficult to get your head around. Its 20 pages not 200! You could read he whole lot in not much more than a hour, or just read the very basics and then use the manual later to expand your knowledge. Some people actually enjoy learning how to get the best out of these things. I do, in much the same way I enjoy the fact that riding a motorbike briskly demands far more skill and concentration than driving a car.
I am not alone in feeling that the later devices have been dumbed down for a mass market. Personally I would prefer a more motorcycle focused system rather than the car software with a few (useless to me) add ons. But we are where we are, anyone with a cheap car Garmin would be able to do the basics on a Nav 6. With a few minutes reading the manual they would be able to explore its more advanced features.
You may think that Garmin should have made it easier to use but the fact is you have this device and can choose to learn how to use it or label it shite. You can contact Garmin with your opinions but ,although you might feel better, it won't change the reality of your situation. I am trying, along with others, to offer practical help now. If you don't want any help that is fine, your choice, but please just say so. I won't be offended, I will just have a little more time to do other things!
John
The Grey One
Registered user
Is it so hard to work out that "Places along the road" might include the Mc Ds etc. You could just try and see.
The clock can be set into 24 hour format Settings, scroll down to "Units & Time" change "Time Format" to 24 hours, relax!
If your info page is like mine there are 3 bars at the top left, press them, choose "Reset Fields" select "Reset max speed"
And there is also an option to set the keybord to qwerty! Settings, Language & Keyboard, Keyboard layout.
I hope that helps
John
Deleted account 200417001
Registered user
I used my nav6 today for a ride out with the lads. Who incidentally took the piss out of me having a sat nav, then all needed to follow 
Never missed a beat, music on, good routes.
If you don't like it take the fucker back.
Never missed a beat, music on, good routes.
If you don't like it take the fucker back.
So an i phone needs 2 full pages to switch it on and dial a number, seems excessive, or does it explain everything else that you can do with it, i think not. Because if you search for the iphone 6 user guide for ios 10.3 that contains 548 pages not just the 2 you say.
to put in perspective what you say with reference to (you somehow mentally need to recall these 20 pages) imagine trying to recall 548 pages. The I phone is indeed more complex than the nav, this is why you have such a large manual in comparison to the nav to learn if you want to know all it and its software can do, besides making a phone call.
Comparing the nav against the i phone is not really a fair comparison and to say that everyone should be able to follow their lead and make their products equally as good is really unrealistic, you are talking of a multi billion dollar company vs a very small company that would dissapear in a corner of apples broom closet in comparison. Or are you saying if they can not come up to apples standards they should give up and not bother ?.
And on a side note if you spent as much time using your nav as you do your phone or pc/mac i guarantee you would get the hang of it in much the same way.
Link to the i phone 6 ios 10,3 manual https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/iphone-user-guide-for-ios-10-3/id1134772174?mt=11 just incase anyone needs to know more about there phone and how it works
The Grey One
Registered user
I followed that link, it looks to me that it is only available for Mac users. I guess you could put it on your iphone but I'm not sure that would help much. At least Garmin provide a PDF that anyone can use!
John
sorry John user manual here in pdf format for i phone 6 but only ios 8.4 and only 196 pages, i guess like sat navs they get a bit more complicated with each new version.
http://www.iphone6smanual.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/iphone_6s_manual_user_guide.pdf
http://www.iphone6smanual.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/iphone_6s_manual_user_guide.pdf
The Grey One
Registered user
Hi Lee, I don't need it but it did make me laugh when I saw how many pages it contained.
John
No problem John, I have had an i phone now for a few months along with an ipad and to be honest i can not get on with either, would i call them a piece of shit, no, do i curse at them, yes i do, is it my fault when i can not do something with it or get it to do something for me, 98% of the time yes. just the same as it is when i am trying to learn anything about new to me technology.
Hubcap
Registered user
Excellently amusing reply, Leedude.
Yes the two pager for the first iPhone did cover everything, so no, it's not just about switching it on. Today, what percentage of iPhone users do you think have to read the IOS manual you managed to dig out of the interwebular? Go on, make me laugh even more. What % even know it exists?
You say Garmin is a very small* company. They make products at the 'difficult to use without a manual' end of the scale. I agree Apple are a large company. They make products which most people on the planet manage to use without a manual. They just work. Even my 95 year old Dad can use an iPad, out of the box, and I can assure you he has never asked for the manual.
Now then, Garmin is smaller. Apple is bigger, really big in fact. Riddle me this: Cause or effect?
It's well known by just about anyone who has not been comatose for a while that Apple started small and got big by making products that delight their customers. 'You do the math' as they say on the other side of the pond.
* P.S. Garmin global turnover is $861m (2016). The Companies House legal definition of a Small or Medium Enterprise is turnover less than £25m. 'very small company' doesn't even come close, Leedude. So bang goes that excuse.
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The Grey One
Registered user
In the time it took to research & type that you could have read all 20 pages of the Garmin manual!
John
been into the places menu before I ever typed on here and again afterwards, it shows no adjustable elements, icons or things to turn off
thanks for the clock
did the qwerty bit
I don't want to reset max speed I want it gone, don't need plod asking why I "made good progress"
on the smart phone things
Win 10 - brilliant, easy to self teach by far the best layout and interface of touch screen phones, universal apps mean dev can't write one that works on Apple, Android and Windows, but they don't bother !!!, has real MS office app for free, (hideous sat nav features)
Android, - awful spying machine
Apple - a sick joke, nasty bland white text on light grey background can't see a thing, one minute they want you at the top of the screen then its at the bottom, noddy phone, a horrid joke with hopeless signal strength. Mistypes virtually anything you try to do and corrects to what I don't want, when I already got it right, even after telling it not too.. (put tomtom current nav on its a joke / awful ) 32gig 6S iOS 10 .3
Nokia N8 touch screen never mistypes even though the keyboards is HALF the size of an Apple !!! brilliant nav been using these for years far better than anything else does the job costs nothing, free worldwide mapping (when all the others give up turn on the E72 can type easily on a real keyboard and the nav gets me home)
Win 10 - brilliant, easy to self teach by far the best layout and interface of touch screen phones, universal apps mean dev can't write one that works on Apple, Android and Windows, but they don't bother !!!, has real MS office app for free, (hideous sat nav features)
Android, - awful spying machine
Apple - a sick joke, nasty bland white text on light grey background can't see a thing, one minute they want you at the top of the screen then its at the bottom, noddy phone, a horrid joke with hopeless signal strength. Mistypes virtually anything you try to do and corrects to what I don't want, when I already got it right, even after telling it not too.. (put tomtom current nav on its a joke / awful ) 32gig 6S iOS 10 .3
Nokia N8 touch screen never mistypes even though the keyboards is HALF the size of an Apple !!! brilliant nav been using these for years far better than anything else does the job costs nothing, free worldwide mapping (when all the others give up turn on the E72 can type easily on a real keyboard and the nav gets me home)
first i phone user maual is here http://pocketpccentral.net/pdfs/iPhone_User_Guide.pdf and its still 124 pages long amusingly or not its a fact. and its a fact that its still bigger than the 2 pages you insist it had that you say covered everything, and it only took all of 20 seconds to find. can you tell me the percentage who know it exists as i would like to know for reference as i dont know.
yes i agree most people can use an ipad or iphone very easily to do simple tasks make a call browse the web, its when you have to do something not so simple like coppy and paste or other similar functions that people may need the manual, i would bet diamonds if you gave your 95 year old dad an i pad before he had even used one or seen one he would not be able to do that without being shown or reading how.
With reference to Garmin being very small if you read what i had put it was a comparison to apple being as you have said, really big in fact. and if you wish to put it into perspective the figure you quoted for garmin is 861 million dollars and i agree that standing on its own is no small amount but in comparison (which is what i said) to Apple's worldwide annual revenue totaled $215 billion for the 2016 fiscal year it is relatively small.
apple did start small just the same as microsoft intell and indeed Garmin, but there was and is a massive difference between the demand for the very different products they produce. and that demand would have led to the difference in the size of these companies and there ability and speed at which they could grow and fund the brightest people to work for them to design and produce these very good items, also factor in that Apple was founded 10 years or more before Garmin which in the tech world is a lifetime they had infact a head start.
And apple seem to think that there phones are indeed not the easiest to use when first handled by a novice, this is from there web site pages.
How To Use the iPhone for Beginners
For people who have never used an Apple product, let alone a smartphone, using an iPhone can be an incredibly difficult and frustrating task. The iPhone is nothing like other phones, and is nothing like a Windows computer either. Simple tasks such as sending text messages and importing contacts can be difficult to a new iPhone user. Becoming familiar with the App Store and picking the right apps for you can become very costly if you don't know exactly how to use them before purchasing them. Many people complain that the battery on their iPhone only lasts a few hours. Did you know that enabling auto-brightness on your phone can extend your battery life by several hours? Or that closing background applications can extend your battery life and increase your phone's processing speed? Furthermore, many people are unaware that only charging your iPhone when the battery is near dead to a full charge can keep your battery strong for years.
Surfing the web on the iPhone can be a simple and enjoyable experience. Knowing the basics of using Safari and fundamental web browsing tools will make surfing the web very easy. This includes using multiple tabs, setting bookmarks, accessing mobile sites instead of the desktop versions, and accessing a website's app instead of its mobile version for easier use.
For a new iPhone user, who has no experience with newer Apple products, it can take several months to learn how to use most functions on an iPhone. The fact is, there is not much help out there for people who have not used the iPhone in the past. Many websites show marketing videos about all the cool things you can do with your iPhone, not HOW to do it. Unfortunately, you will never be able to truly experience all the great things you can do with your iPhone without a basic teaching showing you how to navigate it and control it. You may be able to take your iPhone, play with it a little, and figure out how to take a picture, but do you know how to share that picture with your friends? Or how to instantly upload it to your Facebook profile or create a photo album? Or what about removing the red eye in your photos or cropping them? All these things can be done with ease with our interactive teaching guide.
What is How to Use the iPhone for Beginners?
How to Use the iPhone for Beginners is an interactive video guide created by our AVG Development Team, which consists of several iPhone users of all ages that worked to develop a video that teaches the basics on how to use an iPhone. You can follow along while watching and learn how to use your iPhone in 30 minutes. By the time you are finished with it, you will have a full understanding on how to use your iPhone. You will have no problem surfing the web, downloading apps, watching videos, making phone calls, sending text messages, personalizing your iPhone, and exploring all your iPhone's features. In fact, we guarantee it 100%. Don't waste your time struggling to learn the iPhone's features on your own, you will waste a lot of your precious time and you may mess up your iPhone's settings. This guide will help you!
I think that about sums it up. there are a few lines in there that apply to lots of tech not just the i phone.
yes i agree most people can use an ipad or iphone very easily to do simple tasks make a call browse the web, its when you have to do something not so simple like coppy and paste or other similar functions that people may need the manual, i would bet diamonds if you gave your 95 year old dad an i pad before he had even used one or seen one he would not be able to do that without being shown or reading how.
With reference to Garmin being very small if you read what i had put it was a comparison to apple being as you have said, really big in fact. and if you wish to put it into perspective the figure you quoted for garmin is 861 million dollars and i agree that standing on its own is no small amount but in comparison (which is what i said) to Apple's worldwide annual revenue totaled $215 billion for the 2016 fiscal year it is relatively small.
apple did start small just the same as microsoft intell and indeed Garmin, but there was and is a massive difference between the demand for the very different products they produce. and that demand would have led to the difference in the size of these companies and there ability and speed at which they could grow and fund the brightest people to work for them to design and produce these very good items, also factor in that Apple was founded 10 years or more before Garmin which in the tech world is a lifetime they had infact a head start.
And apple seem to think that there phones are indeed not the easiest to use when first handled by a novice, this is from there web site pages.
How To Use the iPhone for Beginners
For people who have never used an Apple product, let alone a smartphone, using an iPhone can be an incredibly difficult and frustrating task. The iPhone is nothing like other phones, and is nothing like a Windows computer either. Simple tasks such as sending text messages and importing contacts can be difficult to a new iPhone user. Becoming familiar with the App Store and picking the right apps for you can become very costly if you don't know exactly how to use them before purchasing them. Many people complain that the battery on their iPhone only lasts a few hours. Did you know that enabling auto-brightness on your phone can extend your battery life by several hours? Or that closing background applications can extend your battery life and increase your phone's processing speed? Furthermore, many people are unaware that only charging your iPhone when the battery is near dead to a full charge can keep your battery strong for years.
Surfing the web on the iPhone can be a simple and enjoyable experience. Knowing the basics of using Safari and fundamental web browsing tools will make surfing the web very easy. This includes using multiple tabs, setting bookmarks, accessing mobile sites instead of the desktop versions, and accessing a website's app instead of its mobile version for easier use.
For a new iPhone user, who has no experience with newer Apple products, it can take several months to learn how to use most functions on an iPhone. The fact is, there is not much help out there for people who have not used the iPhone in the past. Many websites show marketing videos about all the cool things you can do with your iPhone, not HOW to do it. Unfortunately, you will never be able to truly experience all the great things you can do with your iPhone without a basic teaching showing you how to navigate it and control it. You may be able to take your iPhone, play with it a little, and figure out how to take a picture, but do you know how to share that picture with your friends? Or how to instantly upload it to your Facebook profile or create a photo album? Or what about removing the red eye in your photos or cropping them? All these things can be done with ease with our interactive teaching guide.
What is How to Use the iPhone for Beginners?
How to Use the iPhone for Beginners is an interactive video guide created by our AVG Development Team, which consists of several iPhone users of all ages that worked to develop a video that teaches the basics on how to use an iPhone. You can follow along while watching and learn how to use your iPhone in 30 minutes. By the time you are finished with it, you will have a full understanding on how to use your iPhone. You will have no problem surfing the web, downloading apps, watching videos, making phone calls, sending text messages, personalizing your iPhone, and exploring all your iPhone's features. In fact, we guarantee it 100%. Don't waste your time struggling to learn the iPhone's features on your own, you will waste a lot of your precious time and you may mess up your iPhone's settings. This guide will help you!
I think that about sums it up. there are a few lines in there that apply to lots of tech not just the i phone.
The Grey One
Registered user
The "Places along the road" layer can be switched off. I just don't get why you have not tried some of this stuff, you won't break it!
Max speed is just that, no details, time or date. Mine shows far enough over the UK limit to land me in jail if it was here. The German autobahns are the perfect excuse! Just get out more.
John
Deleted account Aberdeen GS
Registered user
I thought that too... ( Autobahn , IOM unrestricted , a trackday etc etc )
BUT the truth is, that wont wash ! I'm afraid like many similar GPS devices, it stores your speed and location !
If the authorities wanted to view it , thay can !
Deleted account 200417001
Registered user
Yes and no, they can just view it, just to check.
They can't prosecute you on just your GPS speed. They has been a number of cases where GPS speed was not accepted into evidence (as it can be manipulated after the event). So for the same reason the prosecution can't use it.
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