Non starter

[Jeannot]

Yesterday I moved the bike from my side-alley to the front of the house and it started perfectly well. Later on I got ready for work, jumped on the bike. I inserted the key in the ignition, lights on the dash came on, pressed the start button and nothing (lights on dash wend kind of dead), now the lights on the dash come on but then fade, none all the electric seems to work (ie horn, light etc.). Battery is new, I usually leave it on trickle when not in use (except for the past week). I connected to the charger yesterday before going to work, but same problem this morning. I have checked the fuses, and they seem to be ok.
Any ideas on what I could look at before taking it to the mechanic?


Thanks
JC

 

[John Armstrong]

Battery & starter connections are properly tight?

 

[B4ndit]

My starter died two weeks ago. Had just started the bike up and it was ok. Switched it off and then went to restart 5 mins later. Clunk. Classic starter failure signs but I still let me mate try to jump start it. This caused loads of other problems. Thankfully non long term. A recon starter motor has all back in order now.

 

[Jeannot]

My starter died two weeks ago. Had just started the bike up and it was ok. Switched it off and then went to restart 5 mins later. Clunk. Classic starter failure signs but I still let me mate try to jump start it. This caused loads of other problems. Thankfully non long term. A recon starter motor has all back in order now.

Thanks, just spoke to my mechanic and he is on his way with a second-hand one. He told me that it was most likely the problem. I will let you know.
BTW how much did it cost you all together?
Thanks
JC

 

[flatdog]

If the ignition lights are fading with key turned on then I reckon your battery is either toast or you have a loose connection as said earlier.
Just remember the connections to a perfectly good SM can also be loose and in replacing the starter hey presto all ok now.

So ensure that all terminals are tight before replacing anything.

Replacing the SM would be the last item on my list - after checking the battery.

 

[Jeannot]

If the ignition lights are fading with key turned on then I reckon your battery is either toast or you have a loose connection as said earlier.
Just remember the connections to a perfectly good SM can also be loose and in replacing the starter hey presto all ok now.

So ensure that all terminals are tight before replacing anything.

Replacing the SM would be the last item on my list - after checking the battery.

Spot on, my guy came with new starter. He replaced it but still had the problem. He connected the SM with his battery and it was going fine. We tested the battery and from 12.6v it was going down to 8.5v with ignition on. He start jumped my battery with his and it was fine.

I can't believe my battery is already dead, I have only bought it in April this year and has been on trickle all the time I don't use the bike. On the phone tomorrow to see if they are going to honour the warranty.

Thanks guys for the input
JC

 

[B4ndit]

Glad it all worked out for you. BMW batteries seem to cost as much as recon starter motors. Who said bikes were cheap.

 

[flatdog]

Glad you have found the fault.
Battery trickle charged you mentioned, just make sure it's not the charger knackering up the battery - if that battery was new, then the functionality of charger would be next to check.

 

[Steptoe]

Glad you have found the fault.
Battery trickle charged you mentioned, just make sure it's not the charger knackering up the battery - if that battery was new, then the functionality of charger would be next to check.

Depends what make of battery.

BMW batteries are the longest lasting. 7-8 years isn't unusual and they have a two year guarantee.

 

[Jeannot]

Glad you have found the fault.
Battery trickle charged you mentioned, just make sure it's not the charger knackering up the battery - if that battery was new, then the functionality of charger would be next to check.

How would you do that? Thanks
JC

 

[Jeannot]

Just finished talking with the guys from where I bought my battery. I asked them if this happens a lot with Numax battery. He told me that one of the reason was to leave the battery connected to a charger, he said that it destroys battery.
Now I am a bit confused as I was advised to leave the battery on the trickle when the bike is not in use.
He also said that the best way to preserve it was to disconnect the battery which is a pain (I use the bike maybe twice a week).

Steptoe, on one of my previous post said

"If you're leaving your battery/bike unused for any length of time and it's not attached to a trickle charger remove fuses 3 and 5. ( remember if you remove fuse 3 the power socket doesn't function) "

Would this be the same as disconnecting the battery? I can live with that removing fuses when I don't use the bike but not disconnecting the battery.

Thanks
JC

 

[DrFarkoff]

If you are using the bike twice a week then you should have No need to have it on trickle

If you are not going to ride it for a month stick it on a day or so before you are intending to use it

 

[HarryMcGuinness]

Spot on, my guy came with new starter. He replaced it but still had the problem. He connected the SM with his battery and it was going fine. We tested the battery and from 12.6v it was going down to 8.5v with ignition on. He start jumped my battery with his and it was fine.

I can't believe my battery is already dead, I have only bought it in April this year and has been on trickle all the time I don't use the bike. On the phone tomorrow to see if they are going to honour the warranty.

Thanks guys for the input
JC

It is still possible that the old starter destroyed the batteries. I had to replace the battery twice within 3 years.
I also was blaming the battery for the failures as the bike always started with a new powerful one. Only after I measured the starter motor amps during start up I realised that there is starter problem. It pulled more than 180A! when it should have been around 80A. With a newish battery the starter turned but destroyed the battery in a very short time due to the extreme electrical current consumed. Since the starter motor was fixed, no battery changed any-more.
Ask your mate to check the old starter just to see if there was a problem (e.g. loose magnets, short in coil due to loose grease lid of planetary gearbox, etc..)

 

[ahutcheon]

I can't believe my battery is already dead, I have only bought it in April this year and has been on trickle all the time I don't use the bike.
JC

What kind of charger? Optimate and similar "smart chargers" should be fine (they back off to a lower float voltage when the battery is fully charged). Simple chargers can cook a battery pretty quickly if they maintain a high voltage and as much current as the battery will swallow.

 

[flatdog]

How would you do that? Thanks
JC

What kind of charger? Optimate and similar "smart chargers" should be fine (they back off to a lower float voltage when the battery is fully charged). Simple chargers can cook a battery pretty quickly if they maintain a high voltage and as much current as the battery will swallow.

Sorry Jeannot, thats what I meant, is the charger correct spec for bikes.

 

[Jeannot]

Update: Finally got my battery this past Thursday (I can't believe it took so long to get it replaced, I won't be using THompson Ltd anytime soon, but this is another story).

Steptoe told me, via a post, that

"If you're leaving your battery/bike unused for any length of time and it's not attached to a trickle charger remove fuses 3 and 5. ( remember if you remove fuse 3 the power socket doesn't function) "

Can anyone confirm that it is the same as disconnecting the battery? I can live with that, removing fuses when I don't use the bike, but not disconnecting the battery.

Harry, thanks for the tip, the bike is due for its 42,000 miles service and I will ask my mechanic to check the starter

Thanks
JC