North Oxford Garage BMW - shameful activity

[Bobster]

North Oxfordshire Garage

Collected a written off bike from there a few weeks ago. Couldn't help but notice that the only mechanic still at work had his lovely Harley D on the ramp doing some maintenance work. He much prefers them to BMW's that worried me a lot! As for the written off bike that's another worrying story.

 

[GunZenBomZ]

Wahey finally someone from NQG is reading ukgser site

Dear Mr Lyons

I read with disappointment your comments on GS ers forum regarding the service completed on your F800gs on 18/08/2010.


As said at the time I imagine you thought your service was not carried out to BMW and North Oxford Garage standards due to the service light not being reset which you noticed upon collection of your bike. This was due to a faulty cable on our GT 1 and hence was unable to be reset. As this was not reported to you or as a report on the invoice we were at fault. The service light was reset at a later date once our new cable arrived.


At no point have we ever NOT changed an oil filter and oil if it is part of the service that the bike is booked in for and I stand by my Technician who carried out the service on your bike. The Castrol GPS oil replaced in your engine is dyed red but over a period of time will become a lot darker due to its nature of lubrication.

I will remove you from our mailing list as requested.

Kind Regards

Matt Tilsley

After Sales Manager

 

[AberdeenAngus]

after being charged £650 for a annual service

Feck me, what you got, an F-16 ?

 

[MMC]

I've always thought very highly of the service I've had at NOG - and think equally highly of everyone there. OK, sometimes they've run out of baklava - which is unforgivable - but they don't give me too much gyp when I roll up on my crapped-out, filthy 1100. Well, not that much.

The guys are, in my experience, top chaps and do a fine job. They've always done everything they can to help - often well above and beyond what one might expect. For example, we've just been pitching for the national BMW Motorrad advertising account (we came second - hey ho - I'm still sulking), and the help and encouragement we had from the NOG lads was just brilliant.

I don't get a lot of work done there, have never bought a bike either - yet I always get bloody good service. If I ever stop being a complete tightwad for long enough to buy a new bike, it'll be from NOG.

And as for the Harley, yes, one of the Techs certainly has one (and bloody gorgeous it is too). I've also seen the work he's done on my bike in the past and it's been superb. He's a bloody good bloke.

And no - they didn't pay me to write this*, I'm not Matt's mother masquerading as MMC nor do I own the place.






*But I am expecting extra baklava when I'm in next - alright?

 

[BobJ]

+1 for NOG

I am now on my second GS from them - the first was bought and serviced there for the vast majority of the time I owned it (it had one service at a Northampton dealer - just 'cos it was closer to where I lived at the time and I didn't bother going back there again).

Believe me, if my experience was half as bad as that purported to be experienced by some of the comments on here I wouldn't have touched them with a barge pole - and I am really fussy about who touches my bike

In the six years I've been dealing with them they have been totally reliable and extemely helpful at all levels - sales, servicing and parts.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Any relationship with a dealer is 'give and take' - if you take all the time, then you won't get much in return

Just my 2 penneth

 

[John Armstrong]

Any relationship with a dealer is 'give and take' - if you take all the time, then you won't get much in return

Just my 2 penneth

True, but if the dealer is always doing the taking .....

Rainbow had some business from me due to me feeling that my repeat business was a given.

 

[Rasher]

Any relationship with a dealer is 'give and take' - if you take all the time, then you won't get much in return

Just my 2 penneth

Well you cannot ever "take" from a dealer, well you can but it is called theft and can land you in a lot of trouble. You have to give, the amount of cash they ask for, and regardless of the customers attitude, loyalty or spend value they should get what they pay for, and maybe a bit extra if they are a good customer, not a whole load less!

In this case some people seem to think they have paid for work / goods that have not been supplied and that is always a big concern with dealers (large and small) I am sure we have all seen this happen on Rogue Traders and Watchdog and I think it is pretty widespread, I have friends in the trade that have worked at places where the bonus scheme rewards shoddy work and corner cutting, the dealer won't admit to this, but often they turn a blind eye when a mechanic is making them a packet by being 200% efficient. This does include oil filters not being replaced (but charged for) tappets / shims not being adjusted (and again labour for work not done is charged) and all sorts of other tricks, my favourite is a mate who worked with a guy that made himself a little tool he could run around the rocker cover that scraped the gasket clean so the more savvy having a quick look would think he had indeed removed this to do the job properly.

Many owners ask for old parts back, but most don't, again I know of cases where mechanics just get the bits from the bin, how do you know they were yours - unless you mark them first.

Are you getting the £40 a litre oil put in? or is it the cheapo crap they buy in 45 gallon drums (assuming they change it at all). Some people provide their own oil, and again I have heard stories of mechanics keeping the good stuff supplied by the punter for their own vehicle and using cheapest crap in the shop.

A lot of dealers have trainee's or "junior technicians" or whatever they call them, but basically you may be paying £100 an hour for some oik who has not got a clue what a torque wrench is to partially strip all of the threads on your pride and joy.

I never mind paying a fair price for a decent job, but I have had bikes where work in the schedule has not been followed (but has been charged for) not only are you being ripped off, but further damage may occur, for exaple tight valve clearances leading to burned out exhaust valves, or FD oil not being changed leading to FD failure - so now you have paid top whack for poor servicing which has resulted in a £1000+ failure.

The problem is you really have no idea how good a job these people do, I am sure most are honest, but I think a relatively large minority are cowboys, same goes for plumbers, electricians, builders, IT "consultants", as soon as you employ someone to do something that you do not know much about yourself, or you cannot see exactly what they are doing it becomes a bit of a lottery.

And why are so many workshops hidden from prying eyes and even if you ask it is not possible to observe your vehicle being worked on, in my job my customers can see what I am doing at any time, if asked a question I will answer it or show them what I am doing and how I do it, why hide if you have nothing to hide?

But if they were all this bad I would expect to see a lot of BMW's breaking down

 

[Gazzabart]

great reply

Well you cannot ever "take" from a dealer, well you can but it is called theft and can land you in a lot of trouble. You have to give, the amount of cash they ask for, and regardless of the customers attitude, loyalty or spend value they should get what they pay for, and maybe a bit extra if they are a good customer, not a whole load less!

In this case some people seem to think they have paid for work / goods that have not been supplied and that is always a big concern with dealers (large and small) I am sure we have all seen this happen on Rogue Traders and Watchdog and I think it is pretty widespread, I have friends in the trade that have worked at places where the bonus scheme rewards shoddy work and corner cutting, the dealer won't admit to this, but often they turn a blind eye when a mechanic is making them a packet by being 200% efficient. This does include oil filters not being replaced (but charged for) tappets / shims not being adjusted (and again labour for work not done is charged) and all sorts of other tricks, my favourite is a mate who worked with a guy that made himself a little tool he could run around the rocker cover that scraped the gasket clean so the more savvy having a quick look would think he had indeed removed this to do the job properly.

Many owners ask for old parts back, but most don't, again I know of cases where mechanics just get the bits from the bin, how do you know they were yours - unless you mark them first.

Are you getting the £40 a litre oil put in? or is it the cheapo crap they buy in 45 gallon drums (assuming they change it at all). Some people provide their own oil, and again I have heard stories of mechanics keeping the good stuff supplied by the punter for their own vehicle and using cheapest crap in the shop.

A lot of dealers have trainee's or "junior technicians" or whatever they call them, but basically you may be paying £100 an hour for some oik who has not got a clue what a torque wrench is to partially strip all of the threads on your pride and joy.

I never mind paying a fair price for a decent job, but I have had bikes where work in the schedule has not been followed (but has been charged for) not only are you being ripped off, but further damage may occur, for exaple tight valve clearances leading to burned out exhaust valves, or FD oil not being changed leading to FD failure - so now you have paid top whack for poor servicing which has resulted in a £1000+ failure.

The problem is you really have no idea how good a job these people do, I am sure most are honest, but I think a relatively large minority are cowboys, same goes for plumbers, electricians, builders, IT "consultants", as soon as you employ someone to do something that you do not know much about yourself, or you cannot see exactly what they are doing it becomes a bit of a lottery.

And why are so many workshops hidden from prying eyes and even if you ask it is not possible to observe your vehicle being worked on, in my job my customers can see what I am doing at any time, if asked a question I will answer it or show them what I am doing and how I do it, why hide if you have nothing to hide?

But if they were all this bad I would expect to see a lot of BMW's breaking down

great fair reply - hit the nail right on the head with this one

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Well you cannot ever "take" from a dealer, well you can but it is called theft and can land you in a lot of trouble. You have to give, the amount of cash they ask for, and regardless of the customers attitude, loyalty or spend value they should get what they pay for, and maybe a bit extra if they are a good customer, not a whole load less!

WTF?

That's your view, I wasn't talking about it in monetary terms

I was talking about a 2 way relationship, manners, courtesy on both sides and an understanding attitude

This takes a while to build up, but can be evident on the first meeting how it's going to go

Watching some customers in BMW Motorrad dealers has to be seen to be believed at times....................they behave like utter planks and thus in turn get the minimum service level response back, rather than the maximum

Some go in with the attitude " I want it and I want it now, because i'm paying you to pander to me"

I think a better approach is one of reasonableness on both sides

I bought a used 1150GSA last summer from a main dealer, I went into it with my eyes open and we agreed terms.

It needed a few cosmetic jobs, over this winter and in readiness for that, I asked the mechanic who was doing the 24k service (who I'd built up a good relationship with over the last 10 years) if he would take off all the exhaust nuts and copaslip - so I could remove the exhaust over winter.

He said no problem, he had oxy-actelylene at his disposal and all the tools/knowledge - he could have refused saying it wasn't part of the official schedule/a stud could have snapped involving more work for the dealership/cost to me...............but he didn't, but I know al lot of other customers that he would have said no to..................because of their master > servant attitudes

Relationships with anyone are 2 way......................regardless of who pays or what the requirements are

 

[AndrewD]

I purchased a second hand 2006 K1200GT from NOG in December, I looked at the prices on eBay etc first. I calculated that as buying approved used included the £350+ after market 'add on' cost it was becoming competitive to second hand stuff. From a sales point of view I never expected to be treated poorly from the get go, or your not going to buy are you?!?!

I got the price knocked down £500 plus a new pair of seats worth £500+ and the big top box added again about £500. At that point it became cheaper than second hand private or independent 'warehouse' type places, plus it was near and as my 'local' dealership I was glad to buy from them as I'd be using them for servicing etc...

Having got the bike home I added my zumo etc, and then found the cruise control was not working. Called NOG and dropped the bike in that day picking up a new K1300GT as a loan bike, I forgot my licence but that was no problem.

No fault code came up and they say they spent a few hours with a couple of test rides etc...

Turns out I had used the wrong wire (speed sensor ) on the Canbus GPS cable (Zumo I put to battery) to run a little usb charger. I expected a pretty big bill for several hours plus the £15 loan bike fee and frankly a 'plonker penalty', nope £60 all in, I could not get my wallet out fast enough.

Since this wire was from an old garmin mount fitted when I got this (and adapted by the PO) had the price been stupid, I'd have argued the toss. That's where the give and take exists. It's too late to prove it was existing cables after I've soldered and heat-shrinked the cable but on the same basis I was only charged a 'nominal' amount of time (£60 ain't nominal but it's BMW!) when I know it had the panels off and at least 2 test rides. I think the PO probably had no cruise control either as I used his connection and as no code came up it would not have triggered a PDI issue.

Either way I left £60 lighter but it could have been worse!

However I'd never touch Vines with a poo covered stick, I've seen so many issues with bikes not serviced properly or filters not replaced, I had a mate with an R850 that cut out in the rain, Vines had it for weeks and tried to give it back 'fixed' 3 times with increasing bills until they wanted almost £2000 PLUS said it needed a new clutch.

After 1 min looking on the floor not high on a flood lit bench, the side-stand switch was clearly a mess, 10 mins later it was bypassed and never cut out again.

 

[oie]

I find people in Bashtormer interested just in selling you bikes and/or equipment. They are not interested in building a relationship with the customer.
The people who work behind the desk of parts/service do not have any sense for customer service. They are utterly useless when dealing with people.
I stopped using them because of this.
I started using NOG a couple of years ago. I find them nicer. But nothing else.
I do not think that they are more/less efficient than other garages.
They are far too busy to care. They do not need it. They sale bikes like crazy and they get the services for all these bikes for at least two years.
If we like how they work or not they do not care. In the end they are not so many dealers and some of us, probably many, can not afford to go to a garage or an independent which is two hours from us. So in the end we have to take the bikes to these garages and complaint on internet.

All this is similar in my experience with Audi, Toyota and VW garages.

BTW, I find sad that people's appreciation of good customer service depends of if the garage gives free coffee or not.

 

[Rasher]

WTF?

That's your view, I wasn't talking about it in monetary terms

I was talking about a 2 way relationship, manners, courtesy on both sides and an understanding attitude

This takes a while to build up, but can be evident on the first meeting how it's going to go

So expect shite service until you have built up a relationship and then when you pay for an oil filter to be changed they may just do it, especially for you.

I must remember to give the guy on the service counter a real good blowie and swallow afterwards, just to make sure the tappets get checked properly on my next service.

I also assume you also need to get some character references for previous owners before buying a used bike, just in case they can be a bit curt as it could suggest their bike was never serviced properly regardless of the history and receipts.

In my line of work I treat all customers well from day one, this has served me well over the years with repeat business, I tend to go the extra mile for all of them, but possibly and extra couple of miles for those I have built a good relationship with - normally by going the extra mile in the first place.

I thought the people in dealers were in a service industry, paid to provide a service and rely on said service to make a living, I don't know why they cannot just be happy taking a punters money

I would rather have a load if miserable customers who pay me a fair wage than a load of nice people twatting me off and never buying bugger all. When I was in the bike game we called them tyre kickers & test pilots.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

So expect shite service until you have built up a relationship and then when you pay for an oil filter to be changed they may just do it, especially for you.

I must remember to give the guy on the service counter a real good blowie and swallow afterwards, just to make sure the tappets get checked properly on my next service.

I also assume you also need to get some character references for previous owners before buying a used bike, just in case they can be a bit curt as it could suggest their bike was never serviced properly regardless of the history and receipts.

In my line of work I treat all customers well from day one, this has served me well over the years with repeat business, I tend to go the extra mile for all of them, but possibly and extra couple of miles for those I have built a good relationship with - normally by going the extra mile in the first place.

I thought the people in dealers were in a service industry, paid to provide a service and rely on said service to make a living, I don't know why they cannot just be happy taking a punters money

I would rather have a load if miserable customers who pay me a fair wage than a load of nice people twatting me off and never buying bugger all. When I was in the bike game we called them tyre kickers & test pilots.

Feck me.......................there's no helping you understand a rationale

So don't bother

I'm so glad your customers are 110% satisfied - the world is a better place now

All you've done since you arrived from ZZR14 land is moan and whinge, worry and rant

Dealer this, Dealer that

GS this, GS that

BMW this, BMW that

Nothing's perfect in life.....................go and live in a North Arab African country right now...............the revolutionaries would love you...................you'd be straight in

After all it's only a fecking bike.................there's far more important things in life

 

[Rasher]

Bloody hell, I am just trying to say why should you have to beg a dealer to do the work YOU ARE PAYING him to do?

I ain't unhappy, got no problem with NOG, however may keep options open on where to get bike serviced, as it is my cash I assume I can take it where I want, or do I need your permission on how to spend my money?

I like my bike, the world could be better, but it sure could be a lot worse, not certain all my customers are 100% happy, but I don't expect them to give me any money, much less beg me to line my pockets with gold.

I gave a dealer £8.5k for my bike, will be spending more on servicing this year and possibly extending the warranty when it expires. I have booked in for £1200 of suspension work and bought quite a few other bits and pieces already - I just don't see why I should feel so honoured when someone takes my money, and if it is such a chore to do so I would rather they told me to f*** off so i could give my money to someone who may be glad of the business.

Shit, even bought a part of NOG a while back, I must go back and appologise for the inconvenience I caused with this selfish transaction.

As to moaning about everything, well I have recomended many products and services since arriving here, all of which IMHO have been good value and for the most part because the service was good.

 

[Littledumptruck]

Having read through some of these posts I've been thinking about my dealings with dealers over the years since I've been back on bikes.

1st fairly major dealer purchase was a Thundercat from OYB, got a good deal, certainly better than anywhere else local. But their service was £100 dearer than my local Yam dealer so they got my service and tyre work, thats up until I buggered up the chain and they sold me a front sprocket saying it was shagged after only 15k(with oiler), and showed me a really shagged hooked sprocket from under the counter. I was never convinced it was mine and having replaced my blackbird one myself a year or so ago at 40k I now know that wasn't my sprocket. Hardly used them since.

2nd purchase was my first bmw, 1100RS from peterborough. Firstly it was no cleaner the day I collected it than the day I test rode it, nor did it run any better, so as far as i'm concerned all they did to prep it for sale was fit new tyres, although even those didn't get new valves and a week later on the day we we're leaving for france the rear was flat and I had to find a local tyre place on the way to the meeting point with the group we were going with the get a new valve fitted. Whilst in France a mate that also had an 11RS tweeked it and got it running much better. 11months later back in France again the head gaskets blew which were sorted under warranty, but it was curtains for the bike, it had had quite a few issues and I tired of it.

3rd purchase, a few years on from the RS was from the same place, an 1150GS. Running crap on a test ride, and again, it still was on collection. And again just as dirty, no prep at all. After prolonged talks I got a full serivce for £100 a few weeks later, but in their hurry the mechanic put a pad in back to front which wrecked a disc on the way home. So they collected it and sorted that, and to give them some credit also fixed a crank oil seal including new clutch under warranty. (I will say I do like dealing with them and would again, but get really pee'd off when they do nothing to the bikes they sell, all I get for the dealer premium is the warranty, but I feel it should be more)

In between the bmw's I bought my Blackbird, which whilst under warranty I put into my nearest dealer in MK. Now they convinced me it needed rear pads at 8k because of the CBS system, and like the yam dealer before picked 'my' worn pads from under the counter to prove themselves right. Strange though that the pads they then fitted lasted to 40k!!

So 4 experiences, all of which prove why I don't use any anymore. Personally I believe this kind of thing is rife, in truth it's probably the only way they can survive, especially in the current climate. But it won't be at my expense. I now have a pretty well set up workshop/garage, and do all my own, even tyres now as well. I know a good local independant that I'll use for things I don't know how to do, but I don't expect the fastest turn around from him.

 

[AndrewD]

Why buy a dirty bike that's not running right?

My '06 K1200GT was almost indistinguishable from the brand new K1300GT it sat next to!

Last week when mine went back it came out clean and I'd ridden there in some shabby drizzle that lifted all the muck of the road and dried it on rather than rinse off.

I'm stuck with being willing to attack most things but need a BMW service history to keep the warranty running next year, do I cough up a small fortune to have the full 18k service 90% I can do myself, or try and get only the bits that need BMW tools/methods (they quote £90 for the FD oil change so I'd do it myself!) then not have the warranty or high service costs and buy a GS911.

 

[GunZenBomZ]

Andrew I believe you can have your bike self-serviced & then get bmw to verify that it has the specific parts changed. They then will stamp it or accredited by them, still going to charge for that, but its another option.

 

[Nice 'n' Fat]

Andrew I believe you can have your bike self-serviced & then get bmw to verify that it has the specific parts changed. They then will stamp it or accredited by them, still going to charge for that, but its another option.

Errrr I think you will find that is in fact complete and utter bollocks ..... what are you going to do? pitch up at the dealers with a container full of waste oil and a Tesco bag full of old parts and say "here are all the parts I took off my bike so please stamp my service book"

 

[K75 King]

A direct copy from the BMW New Bike Warranty booklet

If servicing has been carried out by a non-BMW Authorised Dealer then the Dealer reserves the right to reject any claim where it is felt that the cause of the defect is due to the use of a non-genuine BMW part or inadequate servicing or repair by the non-approved Dealer.