Obvious noob is obvious (specific R1100GS questions)

[MattW]

Yellow staining on the right hand of the gearbox behind the right cylinder is probably a result of a leaking fuel line which runs above there behind the plastic cover.

+1 Not an uncommon issue - my 1100 has slight staining there from a fuel leak sometime in its past. If you're concerned about crankshaft / gearbox input seal leaks, remove the starter motor (5 minutes) and take a look in the bellhousing with a torch.

As others have said, a Haynes or Clymers manual will pay dividends. The factory manual which you've downloaded is useful but assumes quite a lot of basic knowledge (it glosses over some of the simple tasks) and access to a full selection of factory special tools.

 

[Vern]

Try www.xmission.com/~wendell/R1100GS useful drawings and stuff there for you, and it helps make things more understanable.

 

[Splat]

Thanks again all.

As I've just written in my welcome thread, I took it for my first ride today.

Everything works, but there is some oil seeping through a joint, which I think is between the engine block and the clutch or gearbox

I'm looking to find the washers to do the oil changes and will monitor in the future. If the seeping problem persists, I guess I'll just have to deal with it, no way to fix that I think....

 

[Wrigsby1]

Thanks again all.

As I've just written in my welcome thread, I took it for my first ride today.

Everything works, but there is some oil seeping through a joint, which I think is between the engine block and the clutch or gearbox

I'm looking to find the washers to do the oil changes and will monitor in the future. If the seeping problem persists, I guess I'll just have to deal with it, no way to fix that I think....

Take a pic of the "seep" and post it. If it is a bit of mist with crap sticking to it between engine and bellhousing then it is fairly common and you can live with it for quite a while. If it's pouring out we will give you the sharp intake of breath...

Often 11's? (long thread) the rear crank oil seal weeps and the flywheel spins the small amount of oil outwards where it passes through the unsealed joint between the engine and the bellhousing. It doesn't/shouldn't contaminate your clutch as the flywheel is pretty solid. My 11 had one for quite a while and only sorted it 'cos I was having the gearbox fixed.

Oil leak can be gearbox oil but you usually only notice the leak if your clutch starts slipping

The early 11's could be longterm leaky from a few places...

 

[Henry Mawson]

FFS

.

I knew when i saw the thread title you would be lurking here somewhere.

ROFLMFAO

Henry

 

[Splat]

I'll try to add a picture.

I took this when I was cleaning the bike when I bought it.

You can see the yellow discoloration and the yellowish stains (which can not be removed with WD40).

But the leak is the black stain on the joint. I can clean it, but after one ride it's back.

 

[MattW]

The yellow stains are from fuel leaks - difficult to remove without some very nasty chemicals. The black stain is probably oil from a crank or gearbox seal - this may need attention depending on if it contaminates the clutch.

 

[Splat]

this may need attention depending on if it contaminates the clutch.

Thanks,

Could you elaborate a bit?

Can I check contamination by doing a gearbox oil change?

Does the GS have a dry clutch (like Ducati)?

The black stain returns after every ride, And can be quite liquid.

 

[MattW]

Thanks,

Could you elaborate a bit?

Can I check contamination by doing a gearbox oil change?

Does the GS have a dry clutch (like Ducati)?

The black stain returns after every ride, And can be quite liquid.

BMW boxers have more in common with cars than bikes.

They have a single plate dry clutch (exactly like a small car clutch) in a bellhousing between the engine and gearbox. The engine and gearbox have their own independent oil supply.

An oil leak into the bellhousing can come from either the crankshaft output seal or the gearbox input seal but you can't check for clutch contamination by doing an oil change as the clutch doesn't run in oil. It's hard to tell which seal is leaking as a little oil goes a long way (sometimes the smell can give it away as gear oil has a distinctive odour). Eventually this oil will get onto the clutch plate and you'll start to get clutch slip.

You could try removing the starter motor (5 minute job) which lets you see into the bellhousing and look at the flywheel with a torch - oil leakage should be pretty obvious.

A Haynes or Clymer manual will be a great help to you.

 

[Splat]

Thanks, very interesting.

I guess I will have to get that manual eventually.

I'm comfortable doing a little maintance work myself, but not quite that extensive (as I have no tooling, space, and two left hands). But maybe it's not all that difficult.

As far as I can tell, my clutch is not slipping.

One last question, if either or both these seals would be leaking, am I looking at a great expense?

 

[MattW]

Thanks, very interesting.

I guess I will have to get that manual eventually.

I'm comfortable doing a little maintance work myself, but not quite that extensive (as I have no tooling, space, and two left hands). But maybe it's not all that difficult.

As far as I can tell, my clutch is not slipping.

One last question, if either or both these seals would be leaking, am I looking at a great expense?

Not a cheap job - the parts are fairly inexpensive, but there's quite a lot of labour as the bike has to be split at the gearbox / engine joint and then the clutch removed (if it's the crankshaft output seal). If it's the gearbox input seal which requires changing, the official procedure is that the gearbox must be stripped down as it's only accessible from inside the box, however I believe some good independent specialists (Steptoe on here for example) can sometimes change it from outside without striping the GB down.

While the bike is apart, it's a good idea to change the clutch (complete kit - pressure plate and friction plate) if it's getting close to the wear limits (and definitely if it's oil contaminated). This adds to the expense but it would be a major pain to have to split the bike again in a few thousand km to replace the clutch.

You'd be best locating a good independent BMW specialist in your country and getting a quote.

 

[Splat]

glup..., I do hope I didn't buy a 'problem' bike.

So far, everything is working well.... But I'd hate a fix would be more expensive than the bike itself :-( (or even 50%)

 

[Splat]

stains between engine and gearbox housing could mean that the clutch is on the way out due to failing oil seals between gearbox and shaft or engine and clutch, the spinning clutch throws the oil against the walls of the housing and it finds it way thru sure enough when riding the clutch slips!

.....

 

[motobiker]

the spinning clutch throws the oil against the walls of the housing and it finds it way thru

what a LOAD OF RUBBISH.

should really pay more attention to what the OP has said. The clutch doesn't slip.. he's ridden his bike a few times.. and all is fine. (mechanically)

If the clutch was flinging enough oil to soak the inside of the housing and then leak through.. the bike wouldn't move. the clutch would be dead. you can't really miss that.

I remember back in the mid 90s when dead clutches on these bikes was practically endemic due to a faulty seal.. the amount of oil needed to kill the clutch was tiny.. a miniscule amount seeping through was enough. It must have cost BMW a fortune in warranty claims. On the GS site that existed at that time, many who had this happen remarked on how so little oil could do so much damage. less than a teaspoon full was enough.

 

[Wrigsby1]

Now kids, control yerselves...

Splat... From the horses mouth so to speak...

You look like you have a simple leaking rear crank seal. This allows engine oil to pass as there is only one seal on the 11's and it makes it fairly common, especially on lower mileage bikes where the seals go a little hard.

Now, what happens is what I said before... the engine oil weeps onto the back of the flywheel and is spun out onto the walls of the bellhousing 360 degrees and it can pool at the bottom. As the flywheel is pretty solid it doesn't allow the oil to pass onto the clutch very easily and so makes it look bad but rarely affects anything else.

The bike can live like this for quite a while and you don't have to worry, just check for oil on the bottom of the bellhousing (it has a drain hole) and also it may get on the top of your stand.

It appears at this joint and the gearbox to bellhousing joint are assembled dry as their is no oil retaining properties needed.

I know this as it has happened to 2 out of 3 of my GS's and countless other 11's when i worked at a BMW dealer. I only sorted it on my last GS as I had the gearbox off for the M94 gearbox rebuild. I had quite a bad leak which was "wet" and it had been mentioned on about 4 services in the service history before i bought it. I rode 25k miles beofore I needed to sort the gearbox prob.

At a dealer it was good for an argument between sales and aftersales as it was a good reason for aftersales to skin sales with an big bill for a gearbox off job!

It is often misunderstood to be the one that buggers the clutch. This is the input gearbox seal and oil migrates forwards onto the uncovered clutch which stars slipping. The warning for this is a slipping clutch

Now before anyone disagrees with this, I want people to think what is their "personal" experience that they have fixed before quoting what they have read or been told by the mechanic that fixed it

Good luck
PS The brown stains are fairly common for fuel if people don't wash it off quickly after undoing the pipes for a tank off job.

 

[Wrigsby1]

Now kids, control yerselves...

Splat... From the horses mouth so to speak...

You look like you have a simple leaking rear crank seal. This allows engine oil to pass as there is only one seal on the 11's and it makes it fairly common, especially on lower mileage bikes where the seals go a little hard.

Now, what happens is what I said before... the engine oil weeps onto the back of the flywheel and is spun out onto the walls of the bellhousing 360 degrees and it can pool at the bottom. As the flywheel is pretty solid it doesn't allow the oil to pass onto the clutch very easily and so makes it look bad but rarely affects anything else.

The bike can live like this for quite a while and you don't have to worry, just check for oil on the bottom of the bellhousing (it has a drain hole) and also it may get on the top of your stand.

It appears at this joint and the gearbox to bellhousing joint are assembled dry as their is no oil retaining properties needed.

I know this as it has happened to 2 out of 3 of my GS's and countless other 11's when i worked at a BMW dealer. I only sorted it on my last GS as I had the gearbox off for the M94 gearbox rebuild. I had quite a bad leak which was "wet" and it had been mentioned on about 4 services in the service history before i bought it. I rode 25k miles beofore I needed to sort the gearbox prob.

At a dealer it was good for an argument between sales and aftersales as it was a good reason for aftersales to skin sales with an big bill for a gearbox off job!

It is often misunderstood to be the one that buggers the clutch. This is the input gearbox seal and oil migrates forwards onto the uncovered clutch which stars slipping. The warning for this is a slipping clutch

Now before anyone disagrees with this, I want people to think what is their "personal" experience that they have fixed before quoting what they have read or been told by the mechanic that fixed it

Good luck
PS The brown stains are fairly common for fuel if people don't wash it off quickly after undoing the pipes for a tank off job.

 

[Wrigsby1]

Can a mod please delete my repeat of the same post. Must be going mad

 

[Splat]

All this is very interesting.
No worries about posting twice, since I have to read it multiple times to understand everything

Today, I changed the final drive oil, the gearbox oil, the engine oil and the oil filter. I also vacumed the air filter.

I'm planning on doing brake fluid next week.

Things I learned:

- Don't wear your favorite jeans while working.
- When buying new equipment (oil filter tool) check first if you have the correct wrench to operate it, 'before' draining the oil. (after a panick attack, I used a plier that fitted in the square hole).

A test ride revealed everything still working. I did hear a worrying 'BANG' sound. I heard it before I think. Maybe an exhaust fart.....

 

[MattW]

They all pop through the exhaust
Mine does it when you close the throttle quickly from highish revs.

 

[Splat]

OH YEAH, another thing.

I removed the bash plate to get to the oil filter.
But we had taken so long to change the gearbox and final drive oil (noob, remember) that I decided to go on another small trip to heat the oil again.

I lost one of the silent blocks (and bolt) holding the bash plate....
Where will I find this???