Nothing that I can tell. It still slams the front down very abruptly when you try wheelying, unless you switch the TC off.
Off to see the Wizard
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Nothing that I can tell. It still slams the front down very abruptly when you try wheelying, unless you switch the TC off.
OK in summary I have discovered that:
1. The LC has no knock control system.
2. Full power and torque is in produced in all modes.
3. After a Hilltop re-map a Euro 4 bike will fail emissions testing.
The questions that I still have are:
1. Does a Hilltop re-map adjust the ignition timing?
2. Are the lambda sensors used by a Hilltop re-map?
3. Does a Hilltop re-map essentially apply a map to enrichen the mixture across the working range?
It would aid my understanding if I could get these answers please.
1. The LC has no knock control system.
2. Full power and torque is in produced in all modes.
3. After a Hilltop re-map a Euro 4 bike will fail emissions testing.
The questions that I still have are:
1. Does a Hilltop re-map adjust the ignition timing?
2. Are the lambda sensors used by a Hilltop re-map?
3. Does a Hilltop re-map essentially apply a map to enrichen the mixture across the working range?
It would aid my understanding if I could get these answers please.
I don't agree, all you have really discovered is that the LC has no knock sensors. It detects and corrects knocking by other means.
HilltopMark
Registered user
Morning all. Alright I spoke to Geoff to get a definitive answer regarding all the questions floating around on this thread. He’s put me right on a number of issues, which is why I’ll be sticking to making the tea and coffee from now on �� So to summarize:
Knock control on the LC: The ECU does have a knock control strategy, it’s complicated. I think I get it but anyone interested can ring Geoff up for a detailed explanation or come along to our next open day on 6th May and ask him personally.
EU4 emissions testing: Apparently the remapped bike WILL (just) pass a static test. It’s a possibility that under certain conditions during actual road riding, that due to the self-learning capability, the emissions will move outside of the parameters. This is a very small percentage.
Ignition timing: This is advanced. Injector timing is also altered.
Hope that clears everything up. If it doesn’t we’ve got an open day on 6th May or you can give Geoff a ring on 01455 610721.
Knock control on the LC: The ECU does have a knock control strategy, it’s complicated. I think I get it but anyone interested can ring Geoff up for a detailed explanation or come along to our next open day on 6th May and ask him personally.
EU4 emissions testing: Apparently the remapped bike WILL (just) pass a static test. It’s a possibility that under certain conditions during actual road riding, that due to the self-learning capability, the emissions will move outside of the parameters. This is a very small percentage.
Ignition timing: This is advanced. Injector timing is also altered.
Hope that clears everything up. If it doesn’t we’ve got an open day on 6th May or you can give Geoff a ring on 01455 610721.
Smoke and mirrors then
I should have added "on my S1000RR" . It reduces it to 136hp which makes sense for a 195hp bike . I can see why there's no need to reduce the power on a GS
Davy F
Registered user
Y'know....all this techie stuff is amazing. If it wasn't for Geoff and others delving into the black art of ECU re-programming or whatever you'd like to label it as, we'd all be happy to put up with our lot as the manufacturer gave us. Then think of how many threads there'd be with owners moaning and questioning why has their bike got a flat spot, why does it hunt on a steady throttle at xxxx rpm etc etc. The days of twiddling with carbs is over, so this is what we have now and I don't have the knowledge to get into an arguement about who's right and who's wrong.
All I do know is that I had my Africa Twin worked on by Geoff as the full Arrow system had it running horrendously lean (contrary to Arrows claims) and that the results were/are significant in how the bike performs with better low to mid range punch. I've also now ridden other standard AT's back to back against mine and I'll happily take mine over stock any day of the week. Did I gain massive bhp ? Nope...a tad under four better off, so no really biggie, but as said, it's how the engine puts its power down now that is most impressive. Everyone who's ridden my bike says the same, so it can't be my rose-tinted glasses telling me stories ( or else they don't want to hurt my feelings
).
All I do know is that I had my Africa Twin worked on by Geoff as the full Arrow system had it running horrendously lean (contrary to Arrows claims) and that the results were/are significant in how the bike performs with better low to mid range punch. I've also now ridden other standard AT's back to back against mine and I'll happily take mine over stock any day of the week. Did I gain massive bhp ? Nope...a tad under four better off, so no really biggie, but as said, it's how the engine puts its power down now that is most impressive. Everyone who's ridden my bike says the same, so it can't be my rose-tinted glasses telling me stories ( or else they don't want to hurt my feelings
).
The press release above says that there is no knock control system.
Y'know....all this techie stuff is amazing. If it wasn't for Geoff and others delving into the black art of ECU re-programming or whatever you'd like to label it as, we'd all be happy to put up with our lot as the manufacturer gave us. Then think of how many threads there'd be with owners moaning and questioning why has their bike got a flat spot, why does it hunt on a steady throttle at xxxx rpm etc etc. The days of twiddling with carbs is over, so this is what we have now and I don't have the knowledge to get into an arguement about who's right and who's wrong.
All I do know is that I had my Africa Twin worked on by Geoff as the full Arrow system had it running horrendously lean (contrary to Arrows claims) and that the results were/are significant in how the bike performs with better low to mid range punch. I've also now ridden other standard AT's back to back against mine and I'll happily take mine over stock any day of the week. Did I gain massive bhp ? Nope...a tad under four better off, so no really biggie, but as said, it's how the engine puts its power down now that is most impressive. Everyone who's ridden my bike says the same, so it can't be my rose-tinted glasses telling me stories ( or else they don't want to hurt my feelings
I am sure that fuelling can be improved if you compromise elsewhere, it's what engineers do all the time - if you like the result great - I just like to understand what the compromises made are - nothing wrong in that.
The compromise is BMW taking performance away to meet emissions regs, remapping returns some of this whilst using less fuel.
Where is the downside?
Deleted account 200123001
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Loss of an axe to grind?
You have just mentioned one of the compromises, there maybe others too but I am not going to get into that again. My motivation is understanding rather than just having faith (that's what religious people do).
I still want to understand the knock control, as BMW say they do not have a knock control system on the GS, they just allude to improved turbulence (efficient mixing of fuel and air) and a new cyclinder head design - there does not seem to be any sort of feedback system and there is a clue to this in that if you want to run low grade fuel (91 RON) then BMW will make the necessary changes.
I would not remap if I thought emissions would be increased, especially NOx, large capacity bikes are already a couple of generations behind cars in EU emissions regs and cc for cc emit more poisons than cars - if I only rode a few miles a year or on a track then no problem but I do about 12,000 p.a. and do not want to pollute more than necessary by remapping when the fuelling of my LC works just fine as standard. I would also not remap if I though that any updates that BMW regarded as essential were not incorporated into the system.
These are my personal choices, others will do as they wish. I prefer to make informed decisions based on facts.
Honest Answer... no axe to grind, but people should know...
Downsides are:
1) £300-£350 Cost plus travel expenses.
2) Modification to the core ECU. Invalidates BMW Warranty immediately.
3) Modification, if not declared could invalidate your Insurance. As this mod is definately a hot topic for declaring.
4) Potential increase in insurance premium. Or worse, some insurance companies not willing to quote at all, leaving less competitive options. Your current Insurance could be invalid immediately as they wont even quote for it.
5) If using the map for performance gain, expect increased wear on tyres, brakes, transmission, engine, clutch.
6) If using the map for smoothing or economy. How long will it take you to recover the costs associated with a remap, before you start benefitting financially.... if ever?
7) Potential to fail a static road test on emissions.
8) If the remap fails and frys your ECU, and its rare but can happen. Who's going to replace it and your consequential losses?
9) If you take your Bike in for Recall, Warranty or Service Work and the technician updates your ECU software, they could overwrite your remap and you'd be back to square one.
So with any scaremongering of potential harm by not having a remap, be sure the above is definate harm if you do have a remap.
You are playing with fire with that post - incoming FLAK on its way
Haha INCOMING
Take it line by line and tell me where I'm incorrect. Happy to be proven wrong
Davy F
Registered user
Oh, and worried about firing out extra emissions into the environment.....really really don't care.
Oh, and worried about firing out extra emissions into the environment.....really really don't care.
Haha.. and North Korea and USA are about to nuke us all anyways. Lol
You said engineers compromise all the time, what are the engineering compromise facts in this situation, not what you think may happen.You are playing with fire with that post - incoming FLAK on its way
Haha INCOMING
Take it line by line and tell me where I'm incorrect. Happy to be proven wrong
Would suggest you take the time to use the search function on here - everything you put up has been extensively discussed on this forum previously.
HilltopMark
Registered user
BMW cannot see the remap so your warranty will not be affected and they cannot overwrite it either. Whether you decide to declare it to them or to your insurance company is a matter of personal conscience. I would of course recommend that you do so!!!
When I had my first bike done by Geoff (probably 7 years ago now) it was because I was at my wits' end with it. I loved the bike but hated the way the engine ran. Within half a mile of riding away I felt totally differently. The difference was amazing and a bike that was about to go up for sale stayed with me for another 3 years. The engine is the soul of a motorcycle, much more so than in a car, and an engine that runs in such a way that it adds to your enjoyment rather than detracts from it is worth a lot more than the few hundred quid it costs to make it like that.
When I had my first bike done by Geoff (probably 7 years ago now) it was because I was at my wits' end with it. I loved the bike but hated the way the engine ran. Within half a mile of riding away I felt totally differently. The difference was amazing and a bike that was about to go up for sale stayed with me for another 3 years. The engine is the soul of a motorcycle, much more so than in a car, and an engine that runs in such a way that it adds to your enjoyment rather than detracts from it is worth a lot more than the few hundred quid it costs to make it like that.
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