oil consumption rant/help?!

[Kenny Rodkiss]

Oil levels

Originally posted by GUZZLER
I HAVE to speak up on this.... DON'T USE THIS METHOD on an R1150GS.

I've mentioned this before, but using this method you have the serious possiblity of running your engine with a quart or two LOW of oil. Trust me, I did it!!!

I spent many e-mails, and phone calls with BMW Corp discussing this.

The engineers at BMW worked it out that the proper way to check is...

1. Ride the bike and get it to operating temperature.

2. With the engine running, put it on the center stand on level ground.

3. Count to 10, turn off engine. WHY?

4. Walk away from the bike. WHY?

5. 10 - 15 minutes later (no more, no less) go back and check the sight glass.




If you care to check your oil level, by your method, when you have just done an oil and filter change and put in the recomended 3.75 Ltr. of oil you will find it does not show in the window at all, even though you know it has the correct amount in.

But if you rest the bike on the side stand for ten or so mins after a ride then put it onto the centre stand you will find that the level will be OK.

This is because being on the side stand allows the oil cooler and lines to drain more easily and effectivly thereby allowing oil that sometimes stays in the cooler to return to the sump.

If you could guarantee that the oil cooler would always stay full there would be less of a problem with variable readings but you can't so using the side stand method at least gives you a consistantly achievable result.

with your method you have no idea if the cooler has drained or not.If it does not drain then you will be adding oil when the capacity is already OK.

 

[Guzzler]

Re: Oil levels

Originally posted by GUZZLER
I HAVE to speak up on this.... DON'T USE THIS METHOD on an R1150GS.

I've mentioned this before, but using this method you have the serious possiblity of running your engine with a quart or two LOW of oil. Trust me, I did it!!!

I spent many e-mails, and phone calls with BMW Corp discussing this.

The engineers at BMW worked it out that the proper way to check is...

1. Ride the bike and get it to operating temperature.

2. With the engine running, put it on the center stand on level ground.

3. Count to 10, turn off engine. WHY?

4. Walk away from the bike. WHY?

5. 10 - 15 minutes later (no more, no less) go back and check the sight glass.




If you care to check your oil level, by your method, when you have just done an oil and filter change and put in the recomended 3.75 Ltr. of oil you will find it does not show in the window at all, even though you know it has the correct amount in.

But if you rest the bike on the side stand for ten or so mins after a ride then put it onto the centre stand you will find that the level will be OK.

This is because being on the side stand allows the oil cooler and lines to drain more easily and effectivly thereby allowing oil that sometimes stays in the cooler to return to the sump.

If you could guarantee that the oil cooler would always stay full there would be less of a problem with variable readings but you can't so using the side stand method at least gives you a consistantly achievable result.

with your method you have no idea if the cooler has drained or not.If it does not drain then you will be adding oil when the capacity is already OK.

Ok, I HAVE done the drain (filter included) and fill and check with the method as I described. It comes out PERFECT. The volume of oil needed to get to the upper ring is spot on with the owners manual. I have done it SEVERAL times in fact (to verify the data).

You asked about the oil cooler draining... this is why I recommend (and BMW) that you get the bike to OPERATING temperature (some where above 3 bars on the RID).

This also ties into the recommendation that you let the bike run while putting it on the center stand. It allows the oil to continue to "move" around. When you put on the center stand, then turn off the engine, the oil temperature valve will stay open to allow the oil to drain out of the cooler into the sump.

If you don't believe me, try this yourself.

Drain your oil (make sure the engine is warm to hot, wear GLOVES, this will allow the oil to drain from the cooler).

Replace the oil filter.

Add 3.5 quarts of oil (you do the conversions to metric).

Go for a ride to get it to operating temp (again).

Follow the steps I said for checking the level.

Add oil up to 3.75 quarts.

You might end up with the same results I did Oil Change

 

[Kenny Rodkiss]

Oil levels

This may work for you with the bike you have at present but if I come back from a days ride and put my bike on the centre stand, after 10 mins, the oil always reads low.
If I take the bike for another run to get back up to temp,get home , side stand for 5 or 10 mins, then onto the centre stand, oil level OK?

Maybe the oil thermostat in my bike is not operating as it should?

One for the X Files????????????????

Kenny

 

[_pi_]

thats pretty much what i did... thx for confirming it.. i now feel more confident in the technique.

I HAVE to speak up on this.... DON'T USE THIS METHOD on an R1150GS.

I've mentioned this before, but using this method you have the serious possiblity of running your engine with a quart or two LOW of oil. Trust me, I did it!!!

I spent many e-mails, and phone calls with BMW Corp discussing this.

The engineers at BMW worked it out that the proper way to check is...

1. Ride the bike and get it to operating temperature.

2. With the engine running, put it on the center stand on level ground.

3. Count to 10, turn off engine.

4. Walk away from the bike.

5. 10 - 15 minutes later (no more, no less) go back and check the sight glass.

6. If the oil level is below halfway, add some oil.

7. If the oil level is above halfway, leave it alone.

The opitium oil levels are above the 1/4 and below the 3/4 levels shown in the sight glass red ring.

If the oil level is above or below the red ring in the sight glass, ADJUST the oil level IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT DELAY.

As for whether or not having the front wheel or rear wheel touching the ground? BMW incorporated a bit of "fudge factor" to allow for either condition.

I hope you notice that this darn near the same instructions in owners manual. But I know some of you will argue about putting the bike on the center stand while running... It isn't in the owners manual. During my discussion with BMW, they never officially said "No" or "Yes" on this step. But more like "It doesn't hurt".

I was told by my dealer to use the Mica method, and it almost ended up in a disaster. Also after my talks with BMW Corp, they said that were going to send out a technical notice to the service departments, reiterating the proper method and to make sure owners were properly educated. Im not sure if it actually went out of not.

 

[Guzzler]

Kenny,

You might BE running low on oil. I was doing what you did for awhile, till some weird noises starting coming out of the engine. That is when I really went wild and really researched this.

The next time you are due for an oil/filter change, do it yourself to verify the reading of your sight glass by draining and changing the filter. Put in 3.5 quarts, go for ride, check level on center stand, etc. It doesn't add that much extra time to the service. Make sure you finish off with putting in at least 3.75 quarts in! (I think its 4 quarts for in the owners manual for a full change)

But really try putting the bike on the center stand with the engine running, and wait at least a count of 10 before turning it off. I'm starting to find that this is the 'trick'.

I have worked with several guys here in the states on this issue. All the guys that were doing the side stand check method ended up running quite low on oil. When we changed the oil and measured the oil going in, and did the side stand check method. It would look like we over filled the engine! But the measuring cup doesn't lie.

And oddly enough, when I and others started doing the check like I described, the levels were very consistent.

But again the point is, you need to verify it on YOUR bike.

Oh, if you have an older R1100GS... then the side stand method might be right, I haven't worked on the R1100GS to verify.

But, you do have to wonder why BMW has always kept the center stand on the boxer bikes??

Oh, I just remembered another trick that might reduce oil consumption. Park the bike on the center stand as much as possible. The theory is that if you always park on the side stand, oil will seep past the rings on the left piston. When you start up, you will burn off the oil that might have seeped into the combustion chamber. But this has not been substantiated (yet).

 

[Kenny Rodkiss]

Oil levels

I don't grasp how I can be running low on oil as if I check it by your method I would get a low reading and would add some oil, if I check it by the method I use then the level will be correct and no oil added.
Whichever method is used it relies on getting all the oil to collect in the sump and then checking the level.
If the oil is half way up the window then all is OK.
If I was low on oil, whichever method used, would show a drop in the window
There is a possability of putting too much oil in if I check the level by your method and top up the level to the correct reading.

If I then check by my method the level will be over the top of the sight glass.ie too much oil........

Due a service soon, so will experiment with quantities.

 

[Guzzler]

Ok, lets try this again.

How about a picture to try to explain it?

Notice how in the lower right picture there isn't as much blue, as there is in the lower left picture? But the sight glasses (the red box) both show the same amount of oil.

OK, ok, ok... This is VERY simplistic diagram. But in the engine, there are all sorts of nooks, crannies, and baffles. The point is that the wonderful engineers at BMW worked it out that to get the PROPER oil level, you put the bike on the CENTER stand. That is the reason why the owners manual says to use the center stand. Ever wonder why the boxer engines always have a center stand?

 

[sjwb]

R1100SS does not!!!!!!!!

 

[Antti]

Thank God I have Airhead!

 

[Guzzler]

R1100SS does not!!!!!!!!

Ooops, I knew that. I should have said that most boxer engine bikes have a center stand. Bad day/week for me.

Now I am not sure about how this works on the R1100 engines. Remember I stated that this information is for the R1150 engines, and primarily for the GS which I have the most experience with.

 

[Kenny Rodkiss]

Oil levels

If what yo say is true, then when I drain my engine oil a large amount would be left in the engine.

Also I can see no baffles that would prevent the oil from having an equal level throughout the sump.

 

[MikeO]

Anyhow - if what you say is right - so long as I continue to check the oil after leaving it to settle on the side stand, I won't have to put so much oil in and it'll therefore be more economical to run, won't it...

Mike

 

[Kenny Rodkiss]

Who Dares

 

[MasterDabber]

Oh, I just remembered another trick that might reduce oil consumption. Park the bike on the center stand as much as possible. The theory is that if you always park on the side stand, oil will seep past the rings on the left piston. When you start up, you will burn off the oil that might have seeped into the combustion chamber. But this has not been substantiated (yet).

Up until seeing Guzzler's advice I had been parking the bike on the centre stand when leaving the bike at home in the garage, but out and about, parked by the roadside, pub etc I'd just put it on the sidestand.

Since seeing Guzzler's comments I've tried parking up at all (most) times on the centre stand. This seems to have made quite a difference in consumption... not that it was disasterously bad beforehand, but more than I'd been used to in previous bikes.

It could just be that the bike has now done around 5000 miles so perhaps it is starting to reduce naturally... but the centre stand advice looks like it could be very valid.

If so Guzzler

 

[Guzzler]

Thanks MasterDabber.

Somedays I do things right!

 

[rocks]

Side stand issue

I have just bought my 2000, model 1150Gs, at 11k on the clock.
I have only had 5 days, so cannot commute on consumption rates of oil, but what i do know is when i start her, she burns a small amount of oil them stops.

Now i tend to use the side stand a lot, and so will try the centre stand and see if the brief smoke stops,, as is my limit mechanica understanding, if i reved her hard and she had a oil burning problem she would smoke.. and luckily she doesnt.

I am not sure on the matter of checking oil procedures. I personally will stick with the published method in the ownersmanual.

 

[brucew]

Oil Readings

I purchased a new R 1150 GS in December 2003. It has now done 2,500kms My question to any body that can help is “how do you know when to add oil?” I will explain further.
Walking up to my bike after work one day I noticed that there was no oil in site glass. (The bike had been parked on level ground and on the centre stand). I went immediately and purchased a litre of oil and added 300mls. This showed up as ¾ full on the site glass. I rode home and checked the site glass again, shock it was now over full. I decided to leave it like this. I continued to check it every day for the next week and it remained over full.

Two weeks latter, and before going on a long trip I checked the oil. To my dismay it was empty again. After reading this site I decided to try what some of you had recommended, put it on the side stand for 15 minutes and then back on the centre stand and a number of others suggestions. No difference, the site glass showed no oil. I added oil to the centre dot on the site glass, went for a 15 minute ride, parked the bike on the centre stand and guess what, the site glass indicated that it was full. After the 500km trip the oil level was sitting exactly where it was when I left.

Is what I am experiencing common place with these machines or do I have a problem? Any help would be appreciated.

Bruce, Brisbane, Australia.

 

[Guzzler]

Brucew,

Welcome to the wonderful world of oil head oil levels!!!

You have done a very good job of describing the ALL the weird things that can happen, and DO happen.

All the oil passages in the engine can do many a weird thing with oil levels. Heating and cooling of engine can also do some weird things.

When I called BMW corp, with all these questions, they were well aware of these senerios. But they stress (and I mean REALLY STRESSED) that when checking the levels, you do it the same way every time.

For an experiment, just try method described in the owners manual for a week. Don't look at the site glass at any other time. Only check the level after the engine has been at operating temp, and only after 10 minutes (but no more than 15 minutes) on the center stand. Report back. You might be suprised at how consistent the level is.

I'd like to comment on my pic I previously posted. There was a comment and another pic posting along the lines of "I don't see any baffles".

That picture I posted was A VERY SIMPLIFIED PICTURE. Posted as a conceptual example.

The reality is, that there are several oil passages, journals in the engine that act like the baffels.

 

[reaperhome]

Brucew,
Only check the level after the engine has been at operating temp, and only after 10 minutes (but no more than 15 minutes) on the center stand. Report back. You might be suprised at how consistent the level is.

I found out that the most important thing is to check te oillevel when the engine has been warmed up completely. Oil keeps hiding itself in strange places when it hasn't been hot enough.

For instance, riding from work to home (32km) and checking gives me a fairly constant reading. After 10 minutes just above the center dot, when it's cooled down just below. Stopping at the dentist, read a magazine, get tortured and ride the final 5 km home caused a completely empty oillevel glass. Next day, at work: again around the center dot.

I never let it stand on de sidestand before checking the oil. Just ride it until it's hot, put it on the centerstand and check after some minutes.