lukate said:What % of Tungsten Disulphide to gear oil do you use then GTinOz?
When it gets really hot, I usually use 2 ice cubes to 1 part Gin.
Greg
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When it gets really hot, I usually use 2 ice cubes to 1 part Gin.
Greg
GTinOz
Guest
about 4%, seems to work ok (actually it was 3 heaped teaspoons per 500ml)lukate said:What % of Tungsten Disulphide to gear oil do you use then GTinOz?
GT
oilman
Guest
The basic benefits of synthetic oils are as follows:
Extended oil drain periods
Better wear protection and therefore extended engine life
Most synthetics give better MPG
They flow better when cold and are more thermally stable when hot
Esters are surface-active meaning a thin layer of oil on the surfaces at all times
If you want to know the reasons why then please read on but, warning - Long Post!
Stable Basestocks
Synthetic oils are designed from pure, uniform synthetic basestocks, they contain no contaminants or unstable molecules which are prone to thermal and oxidative break down.
Because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic lubricants operate with less internal and external friction than petroleum oils which have a non-uniform molecular structure.
The result is better heat control, and less heat means less stress to the lubricant.
Higher Percentage of Basestock
Synthetic oils contain a higher percentage of lubricant basestock than petroleum oils do.
This is because multi-viscosity oils need a great deal of pour point depressant and viscosity improvers to operate as a multigrade.
The basestocks actually do most of the lubricating. More basestocks mean a longer oil life.
Additives Used Up More Slowly
Petroleum basestocks are much more prone to oxidation than synthetic oils. Oxidation inhibitors are needed in greater quantities in petroleum oils as they are used up more quickly.
Synthetic oils do oxidize, but at a much slower rate therefore, oxidation inhibiting additives are used up more slowly.
Synthetic oils provide for better ring seal than petroleum oils do. This minimizes blow-by and reduces contamination by combustion by-products. As a result, corrosion inhibiting additives have less work to do and will last much longer in a synthetic oil.
Excellent Heat Tolerance
Synthetics are simply more tolerant to extreme heat than petroleum oils are. When heat builds up within an engine, petroleum oils quickly begin to burn off. They are more volatile. The lighter molecules within petroleum oils turn to gas and what's left are the large molecules that are harder to pump.
Synthetics have far more resistance as they are more thermally stable to begin with and can take higher temperatures for longer periods without losing viscosity.
Heat Reduction
One of the major factors affecting engine life is component wear and/or failure, which is often the result of high temperature operation. The uniformly smooth molecular structure of synthetic oils gives them a much lower coefficient friction (they slip more easily over one another causing less friction) than petroleum oils.
Less friction means less heat and heat is a major contributor to engine component wear and failure, synthetic oils significantly reduce these two detrimental effects.
Since each molecule in a synthetic oil is of uniform size, each is equally likely to touch a component surface at any given time, thus moving a certain amount of heat into the oil stream and away from the component. This makes synthetic oils far superior heat transfer agents than conventional petroleum oils.
Greater Film Strength
Petroleum motor oils have very low film strength in comparison to synthetics. The film strength of a lubricant refers to it's ability to maintain a film of lubricant between two objects when extreme pressure and heat are applied.
Synthetic oils will typically have a film strength of 5 to 10 times higher than petroleum oils of comparable viscosity.
Even though heavier weight oils typically have higher film strength than lighter weight oils, an sae 30 or 40 synthetic will typically have a higher film strength than an sae 50 or sae 60 petroleum oil.
A lighter grade synthetic can still maintain proper lubricity and reduce the chance of metal to metal contact. This means that you can use oils that provide far better fuel efficiency and cold weather protection without sacrificing engine protection under high temperature, high load conditions. Obviously, this is a big plus, because you can greatly reduce both cold temperature start-up wear and high temperature/high load engine wear using a low viscosity oil.
Engine Deposit Reduction
Petroleum oils tend to leave sludge, varnish and deposits behind after thermal and oxidative break down. They're better than they used to be, but it still occurs.
Deposit build-up leads to a significant reduction in engine performance and engine life as well as increasing the chance of costly repairs.
Synthetic oils have far superior thermal and oxidative stability and they leave engines virtually varnish, deposit and sludge-free.
Better Cold Temperature Fluidity
Synthetic oils do not contain the paraffins or other waxes which dramatically thicken petroleum oils during cold weather. As a result, they tend to flow much better during cold temperature starts and begin lubricating an engine almost immediately. This leads to significant engine wear reduction, and, therefore, longer engine life.
Improved Fuel Economy
Because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic oils are tremendous friction reducers. Less friction leads to increased fuel economy and improved engine performance.
This means that more energy released from the combustion process can be transferred directly to the wheels due to the lower friction. Acceleration is more responsive and more powerful, using less fuel in the process.
In a petroleum oil, lighter molecules tend to boil off easily, leaving behind much heavier molecules which are difficult to pump. The engine loses more energy pumping these heavy molecules than if it were pumping lighter ones.
Since synthetic oils have more uniform molecules, fewer of these molecules tend to boil off and when they do, the molecules which are left are of the same size and pumpability is not affected.
Synthetics are better and in many ways, they are basically better by design as they are created by chemists in laboratories for a specific purpose.
Cheers
Simon
Extended oil drain periods
Better wear protection and therefore extended engine life
Most synthetics give better MPG
They flow better when cold and are more thermally stable when hot
Esters are surface-active meaning a thin layer of oil on the surfaces at all times
If you want to know the reasons why then please read on but, warning - Long Post!
Stable Basestocks
Synthetic oils are designed from pure, uniform synthetic basestocks, they contain no contaminants or unstable molecules which are prone to thermal and oxidative break down.
Because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic lubricants operate with less internal and external friction than petroleum oils which have a non-uniform molecular structure.
The result is better heat control, and less heat means less stress to the lubricant.
Higher Percentage of Basestock
Synthetic oils contain a higher percentage of lubricant basestock than petroleum oils do.
This is because multi-viscosity oils need a great deal of pour point depressant and viscosity improvers to operate as a multigrade.
The basestocks actually do most of the lubricating. More basestocks mean a longer oil life.
Additives Used Up More Slowly
Petroleum basestocks are much more prone to oxidation than synthetic oils. Oxidation inhibitors are needed in greater quantities in petroleum oils as they are used up more quickly.
Synthetic oils do oxidize, but at a much slower rate therefore, oxidation inhibiting additives are used up more slowly.
Synthetic oils provide for better ring seal than petroleum oils do. This minimizes blow-by and reduces contamination by combustion by-products. As a result, corrosion inhibiting additives have less work to do and will last much longer in a synthetic oil.
Excellent Heat Tolerance
Synthetics are simply more tolerant to extreme heat than petroleum oils are. When heat builds up within an engine, petroleum oils quickly begin to burn off. They are more volatile. The lighter molecules within petroleum oils turn to gas and what's left are the large molecules that are harder to pump.
Synthetics have far more resistance as they are more thermally stable to begin with and can take higher temperatures for longer periods without losing viscosity.
Heat Reduction
One of the major factors affecting engine life is component wear and/or failure, which is often the result of high temperature operation. The uniformly smooth molecular structure of synthetic oils gives them a much lower coefficient friction (they slip more easily over one another causing less friction) than petroleum oils.
Less friction means less heat and heat is a major contributor to engine component wear and failure, synthetic oils significantly reduce these two detrimental effects.
Since each molecule in a synthetic oil is of uniform size, each is equally likely to touch a component surface at any given time, thus moving a certain amount of heat into the oil stream and away from the component. This makes synthetic oils far superior heat transfer agents than conventional petroleum oils.
Greater Film Strength
Petroleum motor oils have very low film strength in comparison to synthetics. The film strength of a lubricant refers to it's ability to maintain a film of lubricant between two objects when extreme pressure and heat are applied.
Synthetic oils will typically have a film strength of 5 to 10 times higher than petroleum oils of comparable viscosity.
Even though heavier weight oils typically have higher film strength than lighter weight oils, an sae 30 or 40 synthetic will typically have a higher film strength than an sae 50 or sae 60 petroleum oil.
A lighter grade synthetic can still maintain proper lubricity and reduce the chance of metal to metal contact. This means that you can use oils that provide far better fuel efficiency and cold weather protection without sacrificing engine protection under high temperature, high load conditions. Obviously, this is a big plus, because you can greatly reduce both cold temperature start-up wear and high temperature/high load engine wear using a low viscosity oil.
Engine Deposit Reduction
Petroleum oils tend to leave sludge, varnish and deposits behind after thermal and oxidative break down. They're better than they used to be, but it still occurs.
Deposit build-up leads to a significant reduction in engine performance and engine life as well as increasing the chance of costly repairs.
Synthetic oils have far superior thermal and oxidative stability and they leave engines virtually varnish, deposit and sludge-free.
Better Cold Temperature Fluidity
Synthetic oils do not contain the paraffins or other waxes which dramatically thicken petroleum oils during cold weather. As a result, they tend to flow much better during cold temperature starts and begin lubricating an engine almost immediately. This leads to significant engine wear reduction, and, therefore, longer engine life.
Improved Fuel Economy
Because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic oils are tremendous friction reducers. Less friction leads to increased fuel economy and improved engine performance.
This means that more energy released from the combustion process can be transferred directly to the wheels due to the lower friction. Acceleration is more responsive and more powerful, using less fuel in the process.
In a petroleum oil, lighter molecules tend to boil off easily, leaving behind much heavier molecules which are difficult to pump. The engine loses more energy pumping these heavy molecules than if it were pumping lighter ones.
Since synthetic oils have more uniform molecules, fewer of these molecules tend to boil off and when they do, the molecules which are left are of the same size and pumpability is not affected.
Synthetics are better and in many ways, they are basically better by design as they are created by chemists in laboratories for a specific purpose.
Cheers
Simon
all well and good - but some GS's go through oil at the rate of a litre every 1000 miles, or even more 
oilman
Guest
Indeed and this applies to cars as well, mine uses 1L per 1000 miles but........
If you put identical 15w-50's for example side by side one being a petroleum based oil and one being a proper synthetic (man made), you will find that the synthetic will get used more slowly due to its lower volatility.
I run a car that revs to 9500rpm and on a petroleum based 5w-30 it used 1L per thousand miles over a 12 month period.
After 12 months I switched to a poly alpha olefin based 5w-30 and over the following 12 months my oil consumption dropped by a staggering 40%!
All this comes down to basestock quality and in particular the volatility measured in API and ACEA tests and known as NOACK volatility.
In this test, the oil is heated to 250degC for one hour replicating the hotspots in the engine and the % of evaporation is measured. To meet both API and ACEA specs this must not exceed 13%
Petroleum oils always have higher % results, for example if I compare two 15w-50's, you will find the differences marked.
Silkolene Superma 15w-50 (mineral oil) 13%
Silkolene Pro R 15w-50 (pao/ester synthetic) 5%
Cheers
Simon
If you put identical 15w-50's for example side by side one being a petroleum based oil and one being a proper synthetic (man made), you will find that the synthetic will get used more slowly due to its lower volatility.
I run a car that revs to 9500rpm and on a petroleum based 5w-30 it used 1L per thousand miles over a 12 month period.
After 12 months I switched to a poly alpha olefin based 5w-30 and over the following 12 months my oil consumption dropped by a staggering 40%!
All this comes down to basestock quality and in particular the volatility measured in API and ACEA tests and known as NOACK volatility.
In this test, the oil is heated to 250degC for one hour replicating the hotspots in the engine and the % of evaporation is measured. To meet both API and ACEA specs this must not exceed 13%
Petroleum oils always have higher % results, for example if I compare two 15w-50's, you will find the differences marked.
Silkolene Superma 15w-50 (mineral oil) 13%
Silkolene Pro R 15w-50 (pao/ester synthetic) 5%
Cheers
Simon
oilman said:
or the rings could have bedded in?
AAMOI did the synthetic oil cost less than 40% more than the mineral?
oilman
Guest
I do about 12000 miles pa.
The difference in price in my case was 20% as it was switching from a hydrocracked (petroleum synthetic) Group III to a pao based Group IV.
Cheers
Simon
The difference in price in my case was 20% as it was switching from a hydrocracked (petroleum synthetic) Group III to a pao based Group IV.
Cheers
Simon
jenks
Guest
This thread becomes more interesting by the day.
The one thing that is not clear is at what stage should I change from Semi to full synthetic. My GS uses very little oil at 17000 miles, I presume that it is now run in?
AJ
The one thing that is not clear is at what stage should I change from Semi to full synthetic. My GS uses very little oil at 17000 miles, I presume that it is now run in?
AJ
(RIP) Bin Ridin
Registered user
I have not seen synthetic oils with viscosity rating above 40.
My 1150 seems less clattery on 20w 50.
So, no issue with tech superioirty of syn oil, just the noise (the bells, the bells....)
My 1150 seems less clattery on 20w 50.
So, no issue with tech superioirty of syn oil, just the noise (the bells, the bells....)
Mouse
Registered user
Just adding my 2p worth of experience. My R1200GS is definitely lass "clattery" and has used absolutely no oil since I changed from Castrol 10w/40 to Silkolene 15w/50, about 2000 miles ago. It was previously using about 300ml per 1000 miles, with 24,000 miles on the engine I decided to switch to the slightly heavier oil.
jenks
Guest
Bin Ridin said:
Silkolene do a 15w-50 fully synthetc oil meets all the standards API SF / SG ratings. £29.99 FOR 4L from Rogers recommended site.
AJ
(RIP) Bin Ridin
Registered user
Interesting news abt Silkolene, ta.
I use 20/50 in the 1150 here (Dubh Linn) and the 1200 there (Riyadh).
They don't use enough oil for the cost to be a factor, but simple available oil is handy.
I use 20/50 in the 1150 here (Dubh Linn) and the 1200 there (Riyadh).
They don't use enough oil for the cost to be a factor, but simple available oil is handy.
flooky
Guest
YOU LOT NEED TO GET OUT MORE!!
oilman
Guest
Bin Ridin said:
Synthetics are available from 0w-20 to 20w-60.
You'll find them all here: http://www.opieoils.co.uk
Take a look at Silkolene Pro R 15w-50 or Pro S 10w-50
Cheers
Simon
oilman
Guest
You'll find all the Silkolene Oils on my site (don't forget to use the Members Section for best prices).
The likes of Silkolene Pro S and Pro R are merely the bike oils rebadged but in 5 litres and costing less!
Cheers
Simon
The likes of Silkolene Pro S and Pro R are merely the bike oils rebadged but in 5 litres and costing less!
Cheers
Simon
I use 20w50 bought for £2.5 a gallon from wilkinsons, only goes in my claped out tipper though
oilman
Guest
I use cheap sae 30 in my lawnmower but then again it's hardly stressed or used in low temperatures.
Come to think of it, it's hardly used at all
Cheers
Simon
Come to think of it, it's hardly used at all
Cheers
Simon
ELIMINATOR
Registered user
Vaseline works wonders for me as a lubricant.
Bugger, wrong site.
I'm off.
Bugger, wrong site.
I'm off.
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