Oil leak, underneath spark plug

DaveS

DaveS

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Would welcome some advice.
1150GS 2003 Twin Spark
I've been complaining about oil smoke on startup, worse on the sidestand, but after reading here wasn't that worried about it, but have been feeling its getting worse and happends pretty much every time now.

Came to do the 36K service today and when taking the left cylinder head plastic cover off noticed it had some oil.

IMG_4784.JPG


Further investigation of the plug coming out showed it coated in oil.

IMG_4785.JPG


After a bit of a clean up I can't see where the oil is coming from, but I guess from inside somewhere?
The underneath paint is now yellow so the oil has tainted it and must have been leaking for a while, but I didn't notice it last time I did the valves or changed those plugs.
The plug was securely fastened as well and wasn't loose.

IMG_4783.JPG

IMG_4780.JPG


Any ideas anyone? Am I looking at a big bill now to strip it down and see what's going on?
 
DaveS said:
The small black round one?
Click to expand...

Ok assuming you mean that I can see nothing wrong with it.
It looks in good nick. Perhaps it's gotten to compressed?
If that was leaking though when on the side stand it would need the oil to travel upwards wouldn't it to leak out of the underneath plug?
 
DaveS said:
The small black round one?
Click to expand...


What he said:thumb
I checked my tappets a few weeks ago without removing the plug, when I put it back together the plug pulled the round seal out of shape, still, my leather jeans ought to be waterproof now and the shin of my boots is nice and shiny too:o

Stewart
 
oil leaky..

DaveS said:
Would welcome some advice.
1150GS 2003 Twin Spark
I've been complaining about oil smoke on startup, worse on the sidestand, but after reading here wasn't that worried about it, but have been feeling its getting worse and happends pretty much every time now.

Came to do the 36K service today and when taking the left cylinder head plastic cover off noticed it had some oil.

IMG_4784.JPG


Further investigation of the plug coming out showed it coated in oil.

IMG_4785.JPG


After a bit of a clean up I can't see where the oil is coming from, but I guess from inside somewhere?
The underneath paint is now yellow so the oil has tainted it and must have been leaking for a while, but I didn't notice it last time I did the valves or changed those plugs.
The plug was securely fastened as well and wasn't loose.

IMG_4783.JPG

IMG_4780.JPG


Any ideas anyone? Am I looking at a big bill now to strip it down and see what's going on?
Click to expand...

Would'nt panic to much yet.... it could just be a case of the oil seeping past the rings while it's leaning on the side stand although the ring gap spacing should prevent this, assuming they are correct !. Can't really see from your pictures if the oil tarnishing/stain is down in the plug hole although it appears to be which would suggest its escaping under gas pressure with a bit of fuel mixed in.
Was the plug a tad easy to unscrew ?? is the sealing washer ok ?.

Keep it on the centre stand for a few days see if the smoke on start up stops.:thumb2
 
northengit said:
Would'nt panic to much yet.... it could just be a case of the oil seeping past the rings while it's leaning on the side stand although the ring gap spacing should prevent this, assuming they are correct !. Can't really see from your pictures if the oil tarnishing/stain is down in the plug hole although it appears to be which would suggest its escaping under gas pressure with a bit of fuel mixed in.
Was the plug a tad easy to unscrew ?? is the sealing washer ok ?.

Keep it on the centre stand for a few days see if the smoke on start up stops.:thumb2
Click to expand...

Thanks. The staining is not in the plug hole but I think that's because the inside of the plug hole isn't painted. The plug top was covered in oil and the plug bottom that would be upper most is black suggesting that the oil is leaking in to where the spark plug sits. The plug was sat firmly in it's seat not cross threaded or anything.
It's a real mystery.

I will get some new oil seals for the rocker cover today just in case that is the cause but I'm not sure that it is.
 
So if the inner rocker cover oil seal was leaking wouldn't I expect to get oil on the upper spark plug or see some in the hole where the top spark plug sits? At least a trail of it and it's as clean as a whistle.

Ahh anyway a couple of seals won't cost the earth so at least I'll try that.
 
Just to report back on this as I still have the problem.

I have replaced the inner rocker cover circular oil seals some months ago. On replacing them they did look marked.
However on replacing the lower spark plugs today I can see there is still oil there coating the plugs.
Is there a chance I'm tightening the rocker cover bolts too much that could be causing the problem? I don't have a torque wrench suitable, so I'm guessing but I certainly don't think I'm over tightening.

Or any other ideas or is it in to be looked at by someone?
And are there any recommendations of anyone to look at the bike that is close by to me. Looking for small independent rather than main dealer.
 
Long distance diagnosis here, take the seals out, turn them a bit and refit.

Simples.

But your jeans get to leak again. :D
 
Rocker Cover bolts dont take much to tighten , Sure the good book will tell you .
 
Thanks both.
The valve clearances have been checked at least twice in the time I've had the new inboard seals and each time the seal has been rotated.
I was also quite conscious of over tightening the cover bolts last time and am well aware of the low'ish torque ratings on these bolts.

I need to buy a 1/4 or 3/8" torque wrench really.
I have a 1/2" but can't use it on any of the smaller bolts.

Anyway beginning to think that the seals aren't the cause as they've been replaced. It's also happening in both lower plugs which would be odd if both seals were a problem and leaking. The right one was actually worse this time with the plug coated in black gunk.
 
DAVES - you don't need to buy a small torque wrench (something like £60 - £90 depending on how good a one you go for, NOT one of those pointy lever things with a quadrant).
You have a perfectly good one with 1/2" drive - so just get a step down adaptor to fit the 1/2" drive for 1/4" or 3/8" tools - whichever you would use most. Then you CAN use your current torque wrench on the smaller nuts and bolts - about £10 for an adaptor, it just has 1/2" female to fit your handles, then whichever size male you decide to buy on the tool fitting stub.
SIMPLES.:)

I have been pondering your oily stain too, and can't work out how the rocker cover lid seals, which are miles away from the plug 'ole, would get oil leaking through the head to the plug and out of its fitting hole - which is what your pictures look like.

On the old airheads, standing on the side stand caused quite a few to have oil seep into the head while sat for a day or more. Causing oily smoke on start up - left side only, because the bike leans that way. The trouble is, it was 4 years ago when I had my airhead (no, I've checked, it is still on my shoulders) and I have forgotten the fix, but it was caused by oil seeping past the rings. It should get burnt off though, and not come out of the plug thread, so you get your blackened plugs, and smokey exhaust with white smoke, but that doesn't answer the oily seepage question.

Really there are only a couple of sources:
oil seals as everyone has said, but they haven't fixed it.
It has to be a source of oil getting into the head:-
Valve guides?
Rings worn?
An internal oil way seeping somewhere?? BUT ON BOTH SIDES - I don't think so.
Over filling the sump with oil?

Looking at your bottom picture again it does look like blow by, there is no staining anywhere else giving a trace to the source. On both plugs? Could a previous owner have stretched the threads? You putting them in finger tight plus a nip should be sealed enough, but maybe it isn't?

Just thinking out loud really, not giving hard and fast ideas, just throwing them up in the air -might spark someone else to have an idea, you never know!
 
Thanks for the reply.
The torque wrench I have is really far too big and long, I realise that I can get convertors, I have a quality 3/8 to 1/2 convertor already. But I tend to use my 1/4 set for pretty much everything now as it ensures that I don't put too much force in to anything. The current wrench if I recall correctly also doesn't go down very low, something like a 30 - 120 whereas much of the smaller stuff is lower than 30.

Although the leak doesn't cause me much trouble, it doesn't burn a lot of oil, it's frustrating for me and I want to get it sorted.

So off to someone to have a look at it for me as it seems it's outside of my abilities now.

So does anyone have any recommendations as to who can look at it? I'm in Weston Super Mare.
 
Just had another look, there is now a weep/drip from the cylinder head gasket on the left hand side so I guess the gaskets are leaking then which is the cause?

If it is this sounds expensive!
 
Cylinder head.
Rocker cover would be easily sorted out!
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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