Oil on back tyre...

[MattW]

Went out for a ride today with some other GS'ers and when we stopped for a coffee, Phil noticed this on my back tyre:

The 'shelf' of the gearbox casting directly above the exhaust 'collector box' (I assume what would be the cat if it had one) had a couple of drops of oil on it. The sidewall of the tyre and the wheel are oil free, so I don't think it's the final drive. The ride home through a blizzard trying to be careful on right handers was 'interesting'

I've been trying to convince myself otherwise, but I'm thinking that it's probably the gearbox output shaft seal

'94 1100, 34,000 miles - I changed all fluids a couple of weeks ago, but I'm thinking this is probably coincidence and not connected?

Any ideas from those who know about this stuff would be much appreciated.

I'm now going to have a beer and sulk for a while.
cheers
Matt

 

[motobiker]

check the gearbox oil level. (and FD - just to be sure)

wash the bike - see if this oil reappears overnight. or after your next ride.

is it possible you rode through some oily rubbish when out and about?

 

[MattW]

Thanks Tony - I'll check levels tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure it must be the output oil seal. Perhaps the new oil precipitated something

Anyway, I'm hoping that the seal is replaceable without stripping the box? Can anyone confirm this for an 1100? I have searched, but if anyone knows of any how-to's it'd be very much appreciated. Of course if it's the output bearing that's knackered the seal then I'll have to ship it out for refurb - I don't have the experience or the tools to rebuild a gearbox

ta
Matt

 

[Steptoe]

If it's the gearbox output shaft seal thats leaking your drive shaft will be full of oil.

 

[MattW]

Thanks Steptoe - I'll loosen the boot tomorrow and take a look.

cheers
Matt

 

[earthmover]

Blizzard? I must have missed that.
Rather fresh going over World's End after we saw you three. Denise's heated jacket battery expired as we filled up in Llangollen, so she took over an hour to thaw out when we got home.
Good to see you again.
Mark

 

[(RIP) Kaister]

'94 1100, 34,000 miles - I changed all fluids a couple of weeks ago, but I'm thinking this is probably coincidence and not connected?


Matt

here's the clue - you've probably overfilled it

 

[MattW]

Good to see you again.
Mark

And you Mark - I just said to Phil at the Ponderosa- ooh look a couple of KTM's and then they rode over

Yep - blizzard.
Started snowing gently at Broxton while we were having a coffee and by the time we set off it was leathering down

 

[MattW]

here's the clue - you've probably overfilled it

I did wonder this, but how do you overfill a gearbox with a 'fill till it comes out' arrangement? Would overfilling (if it were possible) cause a leak from the output seal?

cheers
Matt

 

[MattW]

If it's the gearbox output shaft seal thats leaking your drive shaft will be full of oil.

OK - just popped the boot off - it's not full, but there's definitely oil in there:

I'm guessing this isn't good?

 

[Stewart H]

I think you are allowed a little oil in there, why not let it drain away and see how much leaks in over a week, there was a thread on advrider where a chap changed his gear oil to fully synth and that leaked through fairly quick, the fix was to go for ordinary oil which did not get through.

Stewart

 

[Pukmeister]

Does the gearbox have a breather vent device or vent pipe on the 1150's? (I presume it does.)If so, it could be blocked, causing gearbox internal pressurisation when hot, forcing oil out of the seals.

Worth a quick check/easier than a stripdown ?

You aren't having much luck lately Matt are you ?

EDIT: Just checked the online microfiche and yes, it does have a breather (Part No 23 00 2 330 249) on top of the gearbox. looks like it is more likely to be the output seal weeping/leaking though.

 

[MattW]

I think you are allowed a little oil in there, why not let it drain away and see how much leaks in over a week, there was a thread on advrider where a chap changed his gear oil to fully synth and that leaked through fairly quick, the fix was to go for ordinary oil which did not get through.

Stewart

Yep - I guess I'll do that (although I can't see me getting much riding done this week if the snow keeps up).

I did use Halfords brand semi-synth 75w90 GL5 oil (apparently deemed suitable by those on here who know about this stuff)....

 

[MattW]

Does the gearbox have a breather vent device or vent pipe on the 1150's? (I presume it does.)If so, it could be blocked, causing gearbox internal pressurisation when hot, forcing oil out of the seals.

Worth a quick check/easier than a stripdown ?

You aren't having much luck lately Matt are you ?

EDIT: Just checked the online microfiche and yes, it does have a breather (Part No 23 00 2 330 249) on top of the gearbox. looks like it is more likely to be the output seal weeping/leaking though.

Thanks Adam - c'est la vie I guess

It's a bit of a bummer, but I was expecting to have to replace stuff on a 14 year old bike - perhaps not all at once though

Edit:

Anyone know if the seal is changeable from outside the box (brake caliper off, swing arm off as a unit complete with wheel to expose the back of the box)?

Edit 2:
It's not going to be that easy is it - you'd never get the driveshaft and front boot installed? If it needs a complete drive shaft strip down, I might as well change the swing arm and paralever bearings too then

 

[Steptoe]

It doesn't look like your output seal is leaking.
The oil would have poured out, the amount of oil in the picture is perfectly acceptable.

Before we carry on second guessing about a problem that may not exist check the oil levels in the final drive and gearbox and then take it from there.

 

[(RIP) Proff]

If it was a monolever, it would be the fecking great oilseal in bevel drive
think they have one in oilheads to




OR tiny little rubber O rings on brace operating cam DAMHIK

 

[MattW]

It doesn't look like your output seal is leaking.
The oil would have poured out, the amount of oil in the picture is perfectly acceptable.

Good to hear - thanks Steptoe

Before we carry on second guessing about a problem that may not exist check the oil levels in the final drive and gearbox and then take it from there.

I'll do it this very evening.

ta
Matt

 

[Pukmeister]

At this rate Matt you might have a reliable bike by the summer.....

 

[MattW]

Before we carry on second guessing about a problem that may not exist check the oil levels in the final drive and gearbox and then take it from there.

OK - checked the levels in the final drive and gearbox.

It's hard to be conclusive because I didn't count levels to exact threads etc when I changed them, but the final drive looks fine. The gearbox might have lost a smidge, but again I didn't pay exact attention to whether it was parked front or back wheel down on the stand etc. Anyhow I've topped them both up accurately (to an exact thread in the FD and with front wheel down leaving plenty of time for any excess to drain from the gearbox. It's not as if there was a huge oil slick on my rear end, but there was definitely oil on the tyre and gearbox casing (see below).

I also had a good poke around with a torch.
I can't find any trace of oil around the outside of the final drive or hub / wheel rim (I guess the small amount in the FD boot has got to have come from either the FD shaft seal of the gearbox output seal - impossible to tell without closer inspection). The bottom shelf of the gearbox casting (directly below the swingarm pivots) does look wet with oil and the top of the 'cat box' for want of a better word (I know it doesn't have one) is similarly wet in places. So is the gearbox end of the torque arm. When I first spotted it there were a couple of drops of oil hanging off the gearbox 'shelf' here:

I'd stuffed a tissue in there to wipe it off before I thought to take a pic

What I can see of the rest of output side of the gearbox (above the swing arm etc) looks bone dry and as far as I can see, the gearbox output to swing arm boot looks sound (tricky to see properly though). The clutch actuator and gear lever input shaft seals appear to be sound. I can't see any other oil leaks / brake fluid leaks etc.

So that's about the best i can tell for now - I guess I'll have to give it a good clean and see what happens next time I'm out.

Thanks for the advice

 

[motobiker]

the only reason you didn't know about the oil in the Gator is because you had both sides tightened up with jubilee clips.

I think i'm right in saying that virtually every 1100 has a bit of an oil leak down there at some point in their lives - loads of posts about this.

I would just clean up the whole thing and see if this (oil on the tyre) happens again.. as for the oil in the gator - thats easily fixed - or just as easily ignored. the amounts are tiny and from what I've experienced never seem to affect the level in the FD.

mine was ignored by me for over a year... and the oil level never seemed to move.