Original Exhaust Measurement

[Sgt Bilco]

OK, without going into a long a protracted argument on this forum. I'm proposing a solution to this issue.

The way I see it is this, steveboy has sold a set of Keihan headers KNOWING there is a problem with fitment. He has not mentioned this to NAB and has trousered the money. Neither has steveboy mentioned this issue to us at Keihan at anytime and colluded with the dealer to bodge the bike to make them fit which is an act of gross stupidity in my book. A simple call to Keihan would have resulted in a possible new set of headers being despatched.

Im my opinion, steveboy has sold the headers hoping that no-one would notice the problem and when it has reared it's ugly head, he's pinning the blame on Keihan when the blame is with him for knowingly selling a product with a fitment problem.

Steveboy should do the honorouble thing and refund NAB his money and understand that you cannot sell a product with a problem and think you can get away with it. I would imagine that NAB has a case for the small claims court here because he has bought goods which are not fit for purpose. I will state again at this point that if we had known about this problem at the first fitment, we would have solved the problem.

If this happens, I will provide NAB with a new set of headers at a one off discounted price (to be agreed between ourselves and not on the forum) and meet him in Chester and fit then FOC.

Anyone who deals with us at Keihan know we are very fair and easy to deal with but we cannot, and will not, be made scapegoats for someone else's act of gross stupidity.

However, I believe NAB is the innocent party here and we are willing to help him out.

Nigel, I will call you later on.

Oh, reference the "tolerance" issue you were told about, we make exhausts for all sorts of bikes and in particular Ducati's have a huge "tolerance" on their bikes so a lot of systems have to be altered or be custom made.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

I am sure steveboy will no doubt defend himself here, but I have met him on two occasions now and have seen a little of how he operates and if you think he would allow anyone, let alone a BMW dealer " butcher" his bike in the way they did you are very much mistaken, IMHO

I await his "explanation" with interest......!!

 

[miked]

Just my two pence worth, Nigel.

I bought a set of headers direct from Keihan last summer while on a trip to the UK, they fitted perfectly and the people in the factory were nothing but polite, helpful and friendly.

I'm sure a phone call, rather than emails and internet forum discussion would sort this much quicker??

By the way, the headers are superb and transform the bike, well worth getting sorted out and fitted

Hope you manage to resolve this

 

[steveboy]

headers

Ok mr bilco, Regarding your trying to worm away from the issues before us,Let me state the following, I would at no time sell a set of headers knowing there were fitment issues,nab has collected his goods from my house so its not as if I am trying to get shut of damaged goods,The headers were fitted to my bike by the dealer and at no time was aware that the flange was not the correct size.Furthermore I really dont appreciate your comments as to what action you think I should take.

 

[karlp]

I am sure steveboy will no doubt defend himself here, but I have met him on two occasions now and have seen a little of how he operates and if you think he would allow anyone, let alone a BMW dealer " butcher" his bike in the way they did you are very much mistaken, IMHO

Then Steve needs to have 'words' with the dealer as this is a serious issue.

 

[karlp]

Ok mr bilco, Regarding your trying to worm away from the issues before us,Let me state the following, I would at no time sell a set of headers knowing there were fitment issues,nab has collected his goods from my house so its not as if I am trying to get shut of damaged goods,The headers were fitted to my bike by the dealer and at no time was aware that the flange was not the correct size.Furthermore I really dont appreciate your comments as to what action you think I should take.

So now you know that a dealer has butchered your bike and any headers that you fit will need to be 'altered' to fit correctly.

Not sure how you will go about selling this bike? - maybe buy some new heads

 

[NAB]

Just my two pence worth, Nigel.

I bought a set of headers direct from Keihan last summer while on a trip to the UK, they fitted perfectly and the people in the factory were nothing but polite, helpful and friendly.

I'm sure a phone call, rather than emails and internet forum discussion would sort this much quicker??

By the way, the headers are superb and transform the bike, well worth getting sorted out and fitted

Hope you manage to resolve this

Not that I have to explain to you, but firstly, before I bought the headers I spoke to Sgt Bilco and altough I was buying used, he was then, and has been since nothing but "nothing but polite, helpful and friendly as I have been with him.
Secondly I emailed the Keihan purely so I could send them my photos to enable then to see exactly what I was talking about and their replies were nothing but polite, helpful and friendly, as I was with them
Thirdly, may I bring your attention to my original post "Original Exhaust Measurement" that's all really wanted out of this, then I could do with that info as I saw fit
Lastly, at no time in my posts did i mention, or anyone ask, who the manufacturer was of my headers, apart from the " who mentioned Kiehan" quote, so how up to that point was I doing it on a forum.

So other than yours fitting perfectly, what is yor point ? ?


Nigel

 

[miked]

I have no "point" Nigel, I was merely trying to be positive and helpful

I also don't recall asking you to explain anything??

Chill out, what an attitude

I had expressed that I hoped you got sorted, now I couldn't give a toss

Mine fit perfectly

 

[NAB]

miked
I apologise for my curt response to your comments, I know you did not ask me to explain but you did add your two pence and suggest I do it slightly differently, any how please accept my apologies for my verging on rude reply.

Nigel

 

[miked]

No worries, not giving a toss, retracted

Hope you get sorted, best change I made to the bike

 

[Sgt Bilco]

Ok mr bilco, Regarding your trying to worm away from the issues before us,.

My dear fellow, I am in no way worming out of any issue and in fact, I'm going out of my way to help here. Please remember, the real issue here is you have sold a set of headers that don't fit his bike (although they fitted yours) so it is down to you to try and sort the problem out with your purchaser.

If I were you, and apologies for giving you advice, I'd be having a little chat with the dealer in question as to how they fitted your headers originally and maybe they can just help NAB to conclude this situation.

In no way can we at Keihan accept any resposibility whatsoever for this as it wasn't reported originally.

However, my offer to NAB still stands for a new discounted set of headers as is our offer to have the headers back to check them as long as the postage is covered. End of from me on the whole thing on the forum unless you steveboy, accept you have made an error here.

 

[steveboy]

mr bilco

The facts are still that the flange on the headers are not the correct size,(see previous post by nab and his trusty verniers)Keihan and your good self I think should admit the fact that there has been a mistake made in manufacture,(we are in fact all human)The fact that the headers were fitted to my gs (albeit with some modifications carried out by the dealer,about which I wont be loosing sleep over)does not enter into it,Initially my thoughts on the keihan product was very good and I would still think that way,But in my humble opinion its the way a company deals with problems when they may arise speaks volumes,I do think this seems a little cheap to ask nab to cough for postage,and yes i know its only my opinion !And by the way whats all this bullsh$t about small claims courts and blah blah,wheres the love eh !
And before we go down the road of "My trousering the wonga and being on the next plane to Rio",nab knows my thoughts.If you want to talk further just reply to this and I will supply you with my mobile number.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

OK steve, last post by me.

We can't tell if there is a problem with the headers until we see them and check them on the bench and I really don't think asking Nigel to post them back to us is not asking the earth.

Keihan products have a great reputation in the market place and we rate our customer service as second to none. 1000's of happy customers cannot be wrong. Try asking Remus or Akra to help in a case like this and I know the answer, if you can understand Czech!

I will say again that if we had known about this when the headers were new and your dealer had a problem with the fitting, we would have changed the headers no questions asked.

As it is, we have been hauled into this and we will help Nigel solve this problem when it would be easier to walk away. I can assure you that by doing this, we are showing customer service above and beyond the norm....

 

[roddy]

I'm not wanting to stir things up or get in the way as all party's have made valid points but one questions seems to be missed Steveboy did you know the dealer modified your cylinder heads so the aftermarket exhaust would fit ?

 

[NAB]

If steveboy had still owned the headers and changed his bike to another 1200GS and tried to fit the headers and found out what I now know, would Keihan have changed the headers, I think we all know the answer to that one

It is not the question of a few quid postage, or the price of some headers it is a little bit of principal.
I have stated the sizes of my, (not all I add) Keihan Header flanges and the sizes of BMW Header flanges, do I need to make some more comprhensive measurements ?

 

[steveboy]

messrs bilco and co

ahoy there bilco

Message understood loud and clear,you dont beleive the picture in the posts or is it that the verniers need calibrating ?

In response to Roddys question,No I was not aware of any mods carried out regarding Flange sizing.

I have spoken to nab on this issue and have offered to pay for the postage back to Keihan,(damn it Ive had to cancell my flight to Rio!)But if and when they arrive back with you and it turns out that nab is correct in his assumptions and verniers,will you then repay postage costs and admit that the flanges are indeed incorrect.

Regards
Steveboy AKA "the hooded claw"

 

[roddy]

No I was not aware of any mods carried out regarding Flange sizing.

In that case then, I would argue that the dealer that fitted and altered an OEM product so an aftermarket part can fit are totally at fault here and the source of all this hassle

Steve what if you wanted to fit another exhaust system and it wouldn't fit would the dealer honour a new set of heads since they modified them or the hassle to another owner down the line if you sold the bike on, does the dealer have it as part of the service history that the heads where modified and Steve I don't see how you should be out of pocket for the postage for something the dealer did ?

Keihan even though it would appear to have had an manufacturing woops, there offer too see the incorrectly made part and modify the heads for the cost of postage is reasonable after all a dealer has modified a cylinder head who's to say they didn't modify the exhaust headers ?
considering Keihan where not aware of the problem at first point of installation and given the chance then to correct the fault and this has only came to light after a second hand sale and a unusual procedure by the dealer,

NAB your in an unfortunate position

 

[karlp]

If steveboy had still owned the headers and changed his bike to another 1200GS and tried to fit the headers and found out what I now know, would Keihan have changed the headers, I think we all know the answer to that one

QUOTE]

But what about the old bike - does Steveboy still have this or has it been sold on. As the heads have been modifies there would have been excess clearance on refitting the std headers - or did the same dealer to the swap out.

I find it very difficult to believe that a reputable BMW dealer would modify the heads of a new bike to fit aftermarket exhausts without first consulting the client - it is just not worth the hastle for no gain.......

or was it a BMW dealer that did the modifications or some backstreet workshop

 

[NAB]

or was it a BMW dealer that did the modifications or some backstreet workshop

It was a BMW dealer, I spoke to the service department first, who confirmed they fitted a set of Keihan Headers supplied by the customer, I then asked to speak to the "mechanic" that carried out the job,I was asked to call again later when I did I was put through to him and he told me, apprehensively what he had done, his words were something along the lines of. "I removed material from the heads of the bike with a "grind stone" .
So I can confirm it was a BMW dealers mechanic.

Nigel

 

[karlp]

It was a BMW dealer, I spoke to the service department first, who confirmed they fitted a set of Keihan Headers supplied by the customer, I then asked to speak to the "mechanic" that carried out the job,I was asked to call again later when I did I was put through to him and he told me, apprehensively what he had done, his words were something along the lines of. "I removed material from the heads of the bike with a "grind stone" .
So I can confirm it was a BMW dealers mechanic.

Nigel

That is very worrying if he did that without consulting someone higher up the chain and even then without consulting the customer.