Pinions...

Room 101

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James' 1150GS has developed free play on the back wheel...

Its only a fraction at the moment but he's noticed it over the past 2 weeks... after visiting Rainbow on Saturday, they advised him that it could be the pinions...

...whats involved in replacing the pinions.. and could this have caused further damage to the final drive...???

...I'm just a tad concerned after seeing Steptoes Bevel Failure thread :eek:

Especially as he does 400miles round trip to visit... could it all suddenly disintegrate... or am I being paranoid :eek

I did a search first with no direct outcome....
 
Check for free play at with the back brake applied, if it's still there then it's the pinion bearings, not too serious, and can be adjusted out, but generally means the bearings are on their way out :( A fairly straight forward job but requires removing the complete rear bevel box.
There are loads of threads here about it.

If the free play has gone with the back brake applied then it's probably the rear wheel bearing on it's way out and will need changing immediately. Again, a straight forward job and loads of threads here on how to do it. :)
 
Just get a new bloke who lives closer. You won't have to worry so much then :thumb

Tims right. It sounds like the bevel box bearings. It costs around £30 to buy the bearings and takes an hour or so to do. I think Little Red rooster paid £100 ish to have them changed at a BM dealer.
 
Thanks for the advice guys....

James is hoping to do the work himself... and I'm sure he'll be chuffed that its not too big a job...



Think I'll be sticking with him ta Rob... ;)
 
Here you go (recently adjusted mine and have since done another bike).

It's this big nut ahead of the final drive.
96446862-M.jpg


The one on the inside is the adjuster (the outer one is fixed).

The 30mm locknut is fixed in place with thread-lock and you need to heat it until the thread-lock softens.
92621248-M.jpg


A hot-air gun will do the heating. 30mm socket on a breaker bar will provide enough leverage on the nut.

Make sure that the thread-lock compound is soft. The nut is steel, the adjuster (12mm hex) is titanium but the housing is cast aluminium, so take care.

Once it's out you have to clean off the old thread-lock compound. I use acetone (nail polish remover) Beware. Acetone will remove some paint finishes!

Pick out the old thread-lock with something soft like a coctail stick after the acetone has had some time to soften it.
96446855-M.jpg


Do the same with the housing thread. Apply the acetone on a cloth.
92621253-M.jpg


To clean the thread of the lock-nut, put the adjuster in a clamp or a vice at a slight angle.

Start the lock-nut and pour a little acetone into the top.
92621258-M.jpg


Then turn the nut down over the adjuster. this will help clean both threads.

An old toothbrush cleans out the last of the crud but don't be tempted to stick the toothbrush directly into the acetone. It may just melt the bristles if they are nylon!
92621257-M.jpg


What you want is the locknut to run up and down the thread with just finger pressure.
92621259-M.jpg


Now the hard bit!

The correct torque value for the adjuster is 7Nm (not very much) but the lock-nut is done up to 160Nm (quite a lot).

You need to be able to hold the adjuster to stop it turning when the 160Nm goes into the lock-nut.

To do this BMW have a "special tool"...
93188343-M.jpg


Basically it's a 30mm impact socket with a slot cut in it.

Halfords will sell you one for £8, then you need someone to cut out the slot.
96446860-M.jpg


Smear the adjuster with the correct strength thread-lock.

Have the tools to hand, 12mm hex key, 30mm ring spanner, the "special tool" and torque wrenches.

I support the Paralever with a jack, it helps to line up the bearing.
96446858-M.jpg


Put the adjuster in and do it up by hand. 7Nm isn't very much so be careful not to over-tighten it.

Torque it to 7Nm then I draw a verticle line with an indelible pen on it so that I can quickly see if it has shifted.

Hold the adjuster with a hex key while doing up the lock-nut with a ring spanner as tight as you can.

Then it's the turn of the "special tool". Insert the hex key into the socket, hold the adjuster steady and put 160Nm into the lock-nut.

Check that the verticle line is still verticle, allow the thread-lock compound to cure, replace the wheel and check that the play has disappeared!

Bingo!

(I'm sure Steppers will correct anything I may have said that's bollox!)
 
Haven't you got a wire brush on a bench grinder ? Best thing for loctite removal :thumb.

You could also use an open end 30mm spanner instead of cutting up a decent socket :nenau

The 7nm is to stop ham-fisters stripping the threads in the arm.
It also controls the preload of the 2 taper rollers - which isn't 'that' critical.

The preload is calculated from 'worst case' scenario - maximum heat,extreme forces,longest possible design life.
Pottering about will never acheive this and consequently the preload will always be slightly 'loose'.
If it was me - i'd be nipping them up a bit tighter and using moly grease. :thumb


( I've just been through a design exercise on 2 back to back taper rollers - working with SKF and Timken. While there are some hard and fast rules - theres still a bit of guesswork involved on bearing preload. )
 
To dig up an old thread,

I had a little play when rocking the rear wheel so removed the hex stud, cleaned (only the locking nut had locktite on) and replaced.

I found though that the 7Nm setting hardly overcomes the friction in the thread etc.

I've just done it it by a few mm at a time until the play steadly reduced to nothing while rocking the hub side to side.

Put the wheel back on, feels ok now.

Anyone else tried and tested this?
 
Bearings.

You will not require a special tool just make sure the lock nut is free on the adjuster put the bearing with locktight applied to the bolt. Do this up to
7nm. (not very tight) and leave it for a couple of hours ( I usually leave it overnight) mark the swing arm and the adjuster with a pencil line across nut and s/arm. Put locktight on the lock nut and hand tighten, give it a good pull up with ring spanner and check that the adjuster pencil line has not moved.
Finally tighten with a tourque wrench to 118 lbs. Check pencil line again and if not moved all will be well, I have done this many times and never used a special tool if you buy one it wil possibly live on the shelf forever more after it's moment of glory. A famous name on here says he's never used lock tight with no problems, I always do 'cos knowing my luck it would fall apart in the middle of nowhere!. A tourque wrench is essential for adjusting bearings as
pre-load is important.
dave gs. ( you can spend the money saved on the special tool to buy us all a drink, I always use a brass wire brush for thread cleaning sold for cleaning suede shoes, yes I've had it a long time!and I don't use nail varnish).
 
To dig up an old thread,

I had a little play when rocking the rear wheel so removed the hex stud, cleaned (only the locking nut had locktite on) and replaced.

I found though that the 7Nm setting hardly overcomes the friction in the thread etc.

I've just done it it by a few mm at a time until the play steadly reduced to nothing while rocking the hub side to side.

Put the wheel back on, feels ok now.

Anyone else tried and tested this?


Thats how I did mine, still have the new bearings, as the bearings looked fine, tried the 7nm, but still play, so I just turned it untill the play was gone, backed off untill it was back, then I knew where it should be. :beerjug:
 
Thats how I did mine, still have the new bearings, as the bearings looked fine, tried the 7nm, but still play, so I just turned it untill the play was gone, backed off untill it was back, then I knew where it should be. :beerjug:

:thumb

I reckon the 7Nm thing might be ok for new assembly. Without perfect free running threads and the arm held in the perfect position I'm not sure its that good a gauge.

As above, I tightened it up backed it off etc. until I felt I had just removed the movement.


Had no problem with the Studd holding position while I tightened the lock nut.
 
So, slight wobble, pulled the locknut off (after heat) pulled the preload bolt (12mm hex) after lots of heat, cleaned it all up, ready to go back in, but the thread in the swing arm is not good. Cant get a bite into the thread with the preload bolt, had a good look and it really looks like it needs a tap running into it to clean up the thread. Does anyone know what size the tap needs to be, suspect I've only got one shot at this!
 
So, slight wobble, pulled the locknut off (after heat) pulled the preload bolt (12mm hex) after lots of heat, cleaned it all up, ready to go back in, but the thread in the swing arm is not good. Cant get a bite into the thread with the preload bolt, had a good look and it really looks like it needs a tap running into it to clean up the thread. Does anyone know what size the tap needs to be, suspect I've only got one shot at this!

I had the same problem, I had neither the time nor inclination to find a tap to fit, what I did is looked for a smaller tap that was the same thread pitch, then used that by pushing it around the thread, to clean it by pushing it into the thread and using as a scraper, then I put the pin in from the rear, that worked in my case :thumb2
 
Follow up - cleaned the in the swing arm thread out with a suitable tap as ianboydsnr suggested, having taken off the final drive to do this. Pivot bearings witnesses on RHS, so it'll all be coming apart again soonish!
 


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