Power Commander maps

[Mogster]

Hi Guys
Just fitted Keihan downpipes (without cat) to my 2006 r1200gs and impressed with improvement in mid range and build quality.
Also running K&N but all with standard silencer.
I am just about to fit Power Commander but not sure which map to use as none match my setup.
Any ideas or help please

 

[Ali-bear]

Don't bother with Power Commander - job done

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

I'm not familiar with the PC as I have a Wunderlich Controller but, is there a map for filter, headers and aftermarket silencer?
If so that ought to be a good base setting to go for; the cat is the most restrictive element of the exhaust system (as you have discovered) with the silencer making caparatively little difference other than sound so the setting should be similar to what you actually have.

From there I guess you want to customise/fine tune the map on a dyno as that's the advantage of the PC over the WC, the ability to hook up to a computer and customise to suit your particular set up.

Andres

PS If you think the headers made a difference just wait until you fit your PC

 

[PhilBolton]

I'm just curious --- as I'm quite happy with the power characteristics of my standard GS with an aftermarket can on, and I'm confident my new GSA will be OK (when I get it in March---

Question is -- Outomunch -- With the significant extra oompf that is apparently released by modding the fuel map with a PC or WC, doesn't the the fuel consumption suffer proportionately?

I am just curious, (although I admit to being tempted by a set of Keihan headers for my gsa)

Phil

 

[SPL]

I am just about to fit Power Commander but not sure which map to use as none match my setup.
Any ideas or help please

Take it a proper dyno centre and have it setup for your bike.

Given what you've already spent, the incremental cost of the dyno time isn't that much, and you'll have it all running as well as it possibly can.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

I'm just curious --- as I'm quite happy with the power characteristics of my standard GS with an aftermarket can on, and I'm confident my new GSA will be OK (when I get it in March---

Question is -- Outomunch -- With the significant extra oompf that is apparently released by modding the fuel map with a PC or WC, doesn't the the fuel consumption suffer proportionately?

I am just curious, (although I admit to being tempted by a set of Keihan headers for my gsa)

Phil

I think it's a worthwhile mod. Noting to do with absolute power increases, just boosts the mid-range and makes the bike nicer to ride. Basically, the lean running 'emission compliant' fuelling is dumped and the result is a sweeter engine

Fuel consumption dropped about 10 miles per tank full, not something that bothered me.

Plenty of opinions on fuelling mods in the 1200 section but for a start have a red HERE

Andres

 

[Ali-bear]

Take it a proper dyno centre and have it setup for your bike.

Given what you've already spent, the incremental cost of the dyno time isn't that much, and you'll have it all running as well as it possibly can.

You'll have it running as well as it possibly can as long as the atmospheric conditions are exactly the same as when you had it dyno'd. At all other times it will be sub-optimal and unable to adjust to the conditions as it was designed to.

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

At all other times it will be sub-optimal and unable to adjust to the conditions as it was designed to.

Why

If that were true you've just blown away the emporer's new cloths on all engine tuning ie it'll only run right if the weather's the same as the day it was dyno'd

The Wunderlich unit that I use only 'adds/subtracts' from the basic WBM map and so is still subject to changes in the base map caused by feedback from the Lambda sensors etc. so what you say is not true of the Wunderlich controller.
Not sure about Power Comanders as I don't know if they replace the WMB map or just 'add/subtract' from it

At the end the end of the day the BWM map is a compromise between Euro emissions requirements and performance - a modified PC / WC map is not

Andres

 

[SPL]

You'll have it running as well as it possibly can as long as the atmospheric conditions are exactly the same as when you had it dyno'd. At all other times it will be sub-optimal and unable to adjust to the conditions as it was designed to.

I don't think that's right?

The PC III applies a delta to the stock fueling that is intended to optimise performance, so as the bike adjusts to conditions the delta is applied to the new value, which should result in a good value at all times.

Anyway, whatever the theories, my bike was instantly improved, and is still better in all conditions 6 months later - which is enough for me to be happy with my purchase

 

[Ali-bear]

Well erm ... perhaps.

But even so, you are still basing the modified tune on whatever was going on in the dyno session.

As far as I am concerned they are junk and you won't find one on my bike

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

As far as I am concerned they are junk and you won't find one on my bike

You've obviously never ridden a GS that's been modded in that way then have you

Not sure where you are based but if you're ever Nottingham way give me a shout and you are welcome to have a go on mine - seriously - would be interested in seeing what you thought

Andres

 

[SPL]

Well erm ... perhaps.

But even so, you are still basing the modified tune on whatever was going on in the dyno session.

As far as I am concerned they are junk and you won't find one on my bike

I can see where you're coming from matey - and I used to share the same view (when I rode sportsbikes that I felt were perfectly fuelled and had mates who insisted on fitting PCs straight after the 1st service).

I stuck with my GS for 8K miles before deciding to try the PC III because I felt it was a bit hesitant at certain revs. I've never bought one before, but I thought I'd try it and I can assure you it made a big difference.

But you pays yer money and takes yer choice - if you're happy with your bike as BMW delivered it, then spend the money on fuel and enjoy riding it.

I wasn't totally happy with mine, so I tried the modification, and now I'm a 100% happy tosser, so for me it was the right choice

 

[KB]

1200 Power Commander

Hi Guys
Just fitted Keihan downpipes (without cat) to my 2006 r1200gs and impressed with improvement in mid range and build quality.
Also running K&N but all with standard silencer.
I am just about to fit Power Commander but not sure which map to use as none match my setup.
Any ideas or help please

Bring it to an agent and get him to customise a map that suits your requirements.

On my 2006 12GSA,I had fitted a techlusion unit, k&n,power snorkell,akro twin silencer race system and I liked the difference that it made.

I got a new 12GSA and fitted all of the above except that I fitted a Power Commander unit instead of the Techlusion unit, simply because I have a PC Agent (fellow Tosser) nearby and I could get it finely tuned and custom mapped, we also fitted a PC Hub that connects to a handlebar switch that allows me to switch maps while driving. The PC unit now has two maps installed, a leaner Economy/Touring map (102bhp / 80ft torque and a Sportier (107bhp / 85ft torque )map fitted.

Everyone to their own.

Rgds
KB

 

[AndyW]

A PCIII should be arriving on my doorstep anytime ..........I intend to get the bike setup on a Dyno at some point (any recommendations for anywhere in the South West?) but meantime I'm looking for a suitable fuelling Map to use as a starting point - there's only a rather limited choice on the PC website here
If you're using one of their Maps please post your bike details and the Map reference....if you have a custom Map please attach here with details.

Thanks

My bike:
2005 R1200GS, Full Remus system (i.e. headers, decat and Revolution can [baffle in]), K&N airfilter, O2 sensors to be removed.


REFERENCE: This is a useful page on the PC Website, latest PCIII Control Centre software, Firware, tutorials and other stuff:
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Downloads/powercommander_iii_usb_downloads.aspx

 

[looney]

The PC III applies a delta to the stock fueling that is intended to optimise performance, so as the bike adjusts to conditions the delta is applied to the new value, which should result in a good value at all times.

Just a thought: the stock system requires the O2 sensors for adapting to different conditions. Without these sensor signals available the ECU goes straight into 'limp home' mode where everything is fixed and nothing adapts.

As I understand from the PC website, the PC installation requires that you disconnect the O2 sensors, and the PC mapping is then applied on top of the fixed 'limp home' map of the stock ECU. So you basically get an open loop system as in the old days with no fancy electronics at all, letting you play with - and hopefully improve - the settings as you wish.

So the bottom line is: PC = not adaptive ?

 

[AndyW]

I found the comments below elsewhere, to add to the confusion...........PC's must work though, DynoJet have been in the business a long time and there appears to be a lot of GS owners happy with the system.

Dynojet has a Power Commander for the GS now but after going through the instructions on their site it shows that they eliminate the O2 sensors and I don't really like that idea either as that removes the flexibility of BMW's system and relies strictly on the maps downloaded from Dynojet.

The O2 sensors are only there for the catalytic converter. They set an air/fuel ratio that is best for the efficiency of the cat not power or economy. You cannot really tune the bike with a piggy back box if the O2 sensors are still connected.

Still after some help

A PCIII should be arriving on my doorstep anytime ..........I intend to get the bike setup on a Dyno at some point (any recommendations for anywhere in the South West?) but meantime I'm looking for a suitable fuelling Map to use as a starting point - there's only a rather limited choice on the PC website here
If you're using one of their Maps please post your bike details and the Map reference....if you have a custom Map please attach here with details.

Thanks

My bike:
2005 R1200GS, Full Remus system (i.e. headers, decat and Revolution can [baffle in]), K&N airfilter, O2 sensors to be removed.


REFERENCE: This is a useful page on the PC Website, latest PCIII Control Centre software, Firware, tutorials and other stuff:
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Downloads/powercommander_iii_usb_downloads.aspx

 

[elefantmanshawn]

Don't bother with a power commander as you tie your self to a map even if you set it up on a dyno,go for a remus powerizer,no maps just constant correct fueling updated on the move so good at sea level in the alps and all heights in between

 

[AndyW]

Useful to know about the alternatives but...
# I've just bought a Power Commander!
# I can find no reference to a BMW version of the Powerizer in any case (Buel only?)

A PCIII should be arriving on my doorstep anytime ..........I intend to get the bike setup on a Dyno at some point (any recommendations for anywhere in the South West?) but meantime I'm looking for a suitable fuelling Map to use as a starting point - there's only a rather limited choice on the PC website here:
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/powercommander_iii_usb.aspx?mk=3&mdl=191&yr=2005
If you're using one of their Maps please post your bike details and the Map reference....if you have a custom Map please attach here with details.

Thanks

My bike:
2005 R1200GS, Full Remus system (i.e. headers, decat and Revolution can [baffle in]), K&N airfilter, O2 sensors to be removed.


REFERENCE: This is a useful page on the PC Website, latest PCIII Control Centre software, Firware, tutorials and other stuff:
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Downloads/powercommander_iii_usb_downloads.aspx

 

[Magwych]

I found the comments below elsewhere, to add to the confusion...........PC's must work though, DynoJet have been in the business a long time and there appears to be a lot of GS owners happy with the system.

Still after some help

To add to the confusion, from the Dynojet FAQs:

On bikes that use an O2 sensor in the stock exhaust have a closed loop area that can not be adjusted by the Power Commander alone. If you make adjustments with the PCIII in the closed loop area the O2 sensor will sense these changes and the ECM will alter the fuel curve accordingly. If you want to have full fuel control over the entire RPM range of your bike then you will need to bypass the closed loop area which the O2 eliminators will accomplish. If you are looking for the best fuel economy and not worried about making changed to the closed loop area you can leave the stock O2 sensors connected and still make changes outside of the closed loop area with the PCIII.

IIRC, the closed loop circuit is only effective below 4,000 RPM, where the O2 sensors try to keep the O2 %age at something like 13.5% ?

One of the other advantages of the PC is the Accelerator Pump utility. So you could use the PCIII with a zero base map, keep the O2 sensors and use the PCIII to add an accelerator pump for quicker pick up when snapping the throttle open.

 

[Pukmeister]

Having spoken about this subject to my dealers, their answer is that if you run a 1200 engine with a K&N and no catalytic converter, the engine will run way too lean and damage WILL occur as the bikes stock maps cannot alter the fuelling sufficiently. You need to alter the fuelling with an aftermarket device of some sort. They don't sell these items so have no axe to grind.

I'm no expert, but I'd rather take their advice than cause any damage to my engine through a decat/K&N only.