Power Commander maps

[AndyW]

I emailed Dynojet and asked for their comments, reponse

The O2 sensors are there simply to control closed loop fueling. There are other sensors on the bike that will allow the fuel injection to adapt for weather and altitude settings. You could leave the O2 sensors connected if desired but the Power Commander becomes almost useless at that point. Some BMW models have a closed loop of up to 80% throttle so that would mean that with the Power Commander you could only adjust 100% throttle. With the sensors disconnected you can then adjust the entire throttle and RPM range.

But still nobody posting what Maps they're using!

 

[PrayingMantide81]

I emailed Dynojet and asked for their comments, reponse



But still nobody posting what Maps they're using!

I think the best thing you can do is to try to use a map as close to your changes,i have a gsa '08 with acra can,original pipes but cutted out cat so propably i will use the acro twin silencer,no cat,stock filter map..

 

[AndyW]

Sorry, I should have said I realise that and have already uploaded this Map to the PC ready for when I fit it:

M936-504
European Model *Advanced map*, Remus de-cat + Laser CE slip on (with Db Killer), Stock or aftermarket air filter, Left cylinder is fuel table 1, O2 sensors disconnected

I have a pair of blanking plugs to fit in place of the O2 sensors (thanks Schtum for letting me know that Cosworth M18 X 1.5 Lambda Sensor Blanking Plugs fit - see here on eBay) and I've been making enquiries re getting the PC set up on a Dyno

....but I'm still curious to hear what others have done and maybe learn from their experiences ;-)

 

[Schtum]

"The O2 sensors are there simply to control closed loop fueling. There are other sensors on the bike that will allow the fuel injection to adapt for weather and altitude settings. You could leave the O2 sensors connected if desired but the Power Commander becomes almost useless at that point. Some BMW models have a closed loop of up to 80% throttle so that would mean that with the Power Commander you could only adjust 100% throttle. With the sensors disconnected you can then adjust the entire throttle and RPM range."

Interesting... I believe that one of the reasons that it took so long for a Power Commander for the 1200 to appear on the market was because Dynojet originally contracted the work out to San Jose BMW who attempted to develop a unit which used wide-band lambda sensors and they got nowhere with it. Strange since the PC for the 1150s comes with wide-band sensors.

 

[wadham]

I had my 08 (new engine) GS dynoed last year and the link below is what I posted then.

Be very very careful if fitting a full system to the newer engines. They are already much leaner than the first 1200 GS engines and making it leaner may cause damage. It seems to cope with just headers changed and original end can back on.

Of course a PowerCommander may help here.



http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158161

 

[Schtum]

I still haven't found an explanation of why Dynojet lists different models of PCIII for the '04 - '07 bikes and the '08onwards bikes.

R1200 GS 2005-2007 936-411

R1200 GS 2008 949-411

I have the earlier model which I never did round to fitting on my '07 bike and I recently e-mailed Dynojet to ask them if this could be used on my new '09 model. Have they responded......?

 

[AndyW]

Schtum - strange they've not reponded to you. The quote above was from Dynojet.com USA

The O2 sensors are there simply to control closed loop fueling. There are other sensors on the bike that will allow the fuel injection to adapt for weather and altitude settings. You could leave the O2 sensors connected if desired but the Power Commander becomes almost useless at that point. Some BMW models have a closed loop of up to 80% throttle so that would mean that with the Power Commander you could only adjust 100% throttle. With the sensors disconnected you can then adjust the entire throttle and RPM range.

and now I've heard back from Dynojet.co.uk (including an apology for the delay):

Regarding the sensors, these are narrow band type sensors with very little range of adjustment and their target air/fuel ratio is set very lean, this is very good for passing emission tests, but very poor for throttle response, performance and smoothness during cruise. We tested many options through development and the best choice was to simply disable the sensors and let the power commander take over the fuelling completely. The ECU still has it's full range of adjustments for climatic changes.

Re the PC model number change for 2008 GS's onwards Id hazard a guess that they could be the same unit with a different base map loaded having seen what Wadham says (thanks for that about the updated engines running even leaner than thier predecessors. Interestingly the second hand unit I've bought, a 936-411 (2005 - 2007 bikes) was fitted to a 2008 bike according to the seller (of course could be 2007 spec with 2008 registration?)

 

[Schtum]

Re the PC model number change for 2008 GS's onwards Id hazard a guess that they could be the same unit with a different base map loaded having seen what Wadham says (thanks for that about the updated engines running even leaner than thier predecessors. Interestingly the second hand unit I've bought, a 936-411 (2005 - 2007 bikes) was fitted to a 2008 bike according to the seller (of course could be 2007 spec with 2008 registration?)

Thanks Andy, I feel a bit more encouraged by that. If that's the case then all I'd really need to do would be to fit my Remus headers and can, fit the PC III and get the bike to my local, friendly Dynojet centre and have a custom map made up on the dyno. Apart from feeling the need to remove the cat' which feels like it's strangling my new bike, I really don't like these chrome pipes - more Harley than GS....

However....I could always sell the PC III and persuade a friend in California to bring me over a new PC V.

 

[AndyW]

Dynojet UK have this to say re the two PCIII models available:

The 936-411 and 949-411 power commanders are actually the same unit, however we found the ECU mapping different between the bikes, hence the different part numbers, keeps things simple regarding the map numbering.

 

[Ali-bear]

I refer you to my earlier reply

With regard to narrow-band O2 sensors and open/closed-loop operation, I have some experience gained on EFI Triumphs (the Sagem-equipped models). On those bikes, the O2 sensor was only used to control the system in closed-loop mode when the mixture table was calling for the stoichiometric ratio. This is normally at idle and just off idle. At all other times the O2 sensor isn't used and its an open-loop system.

I don't know much about what the BMW system (Bosch BMS-K) does as I take more interest in riding the bike than getting all confused over how it works. I do far too much of that at the office already, thanks

 

[giantbaby]

power commander

Ive just had a chat on the phone to HM racing in orpington. They explained the system to me in some detail.

I have
Remus Headers
Akrapovic Can baffle left in
High fow air filter.

The bike is booked in on the 23rd for the Power commander and dyno.
They will give me a map and chart etc.

I have an 08 latest model GSA and have found that it is indeed very very lean in standard form from 2500 to 4500rpm. It then takes off like a two stroke after 4500rpm. BMW told me that the above upgrades would sort it and that its because of the latest emmisions. The upgrades above have given me a significant improvement in power after 4500rpm highlighting the bottom end hesitence even more....... !!!! (according to the dyno in my bum)

HM racing state that the PCIII will ONLY alter the below 4000rpm fuelling if the O2 sensors are removed. This is because the O2 sensors are there purely for emmisions and NOT power of fuelling. I stated that i would be going to switzerland and was concerned about the altitude and fuelling etc to which he replied "dont worry the ECu uses the air pressure regulator and other sensors to correct the fuelling not the O2 sensors.

I will post my results and also the MAP and dyno chart. Trust me when i say he 08bike doesnt like cans ETC without some sort of electrickery......

Heres hoping for the smooth power delivery that i felt on the 57 plate demo bike..................

 

[elefantmanshawn]

Wait and buy the new commander v,I'm told they'll be in stock by late july,coupled with the autotune they work in the same way as a powerizer in that they have no set map and adjust fuelling on the move