Ows at.. Is the pint mine ?
Problems with my 2CV, (it is an Airhead)
- Thread starter BillN
- Start date
oops.... !
Auto Electrician Out there
Well I fitted new points, condenser etc, (and coil, plus HT leads)and gave it a good clean up
The problem seems to be that when I connect a 12v test lamp to the coil terminal that feeds the contact breaker and the other end to earth...the light stay on all the time
It should go off when the points are closed and come on when they are open....does this mean the the points are earthing all the time...........if I remember correctly on my older MGs there was a ceramic type washer which seperated the two bits of the points..there is no such seperator on the 2CV points
Anyone know what could have gone wrong
Well I fitted new points, condenser etc, (and coil, plus HT leads)and gave it a good clean up
The problem seems to be that when I connect a 12v test lamp to the coil terminal that feeds the contact breaker and the other end to earth...the light stay on all the time
It should go off when the points are closed and come on when they are open....does this mean the the points are earthing all the time...........if I remember correctly on my older MGs there was a ceramic type washer which seperated the two bits of the points..there is no such seperator on the 2CV points
Anyone know what could have gone wrong
The moving point has to be insulated so that it only earths when closed (and allows the current to flow through the coil's primary windings).
It sounds as though you are missing something. The old Lucas points had a flanged plastic sleeve that separated the moving point spring from the post that it moved on, whilst allowing the live wire from the coil to contact (only) the spring.
Can you show us a picture in case the cunning French have done it differently ?
Bob.
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Thanks Bob
Yes that is how I remember it........but I have two new sets of points from Citroen and both are the same.......they allow both parts, (metal bodies) of the contact breaker set to be in contact with each other all the time.
Do not quite understand it but I can never really understand electrics.
I will have another go in the week and try to post a photo
put the top hat plastic spacer under the spring to insulate it
or change to this system
http://www.123ignition.nl/pdf/2cv_manual.pdf
more help
http://www.2cvparts.co.uk/startbad.htm
this one sometimes takes a while to D/L but it's well worth it
http://www.agua.nu/ds-files/tony-jackson/2CV/2CVParts1992.pdf
put the top hat plastic spacer under the spring to insulate it
or change to this system
http://www.123ignition.nl/pdf/2cv_manual.pdf
more help
http://www.2cvparts.co.uk/startbad.htm
this one sometimes takes a while to D/L but it's well worth it
http://www.agua.nu/ds-files/tony-jackson/2CV/2CVParts1992.pdf
Thanks Proff
Top Hat Plastic spacer - looking through Haynes and another workshop manual it does not look as through there should be one fitted
123 Ignition - maybe in the future but I have read a few negatives
The only thing that I have not checked are the tappets - I will need to take the wings off to do that..........but a few guys on the 2CV Forum reckon that it could be closed up tappets.........so I will have a go next weekend...........once I have sorted the 12v test light problem.(i.e. the on off on the opening and closing of the points.
Thanks for the parts list and the links
Thanks again
Still no joy starting the car
New points and Condenser
New Plugs
New Coil
New HT Leads
Wings off – tappets checked
Compression OK ish = 140 = but the the engine was cold
Petrol coming thru
Carb OK
The problem that I seem to have is that the feed from the coil to the contract breaker points, (whether open or closed), is always live
As I recall if you put a test light on the contact breaker feed and to earth it should light when the points are open and go out when the points are closed OR the other way round,.i.e. the light should go on and off when the points open and close
It is permanently lit
I am not familiar with 2CV……..but I am used to old cars…..normally there is a “top hat” plastic washer, (referred to earlier by Proff), that stops one part of the points touching the other……..there is nothing similar on the 2CV points…also if I connect a test lamp to each part of the points the light stays lit whether the points are open or closed
guess I need to check the wiring....must be earthing somewhere????
Any ideas ..am I correct in the above assumption?
Bloody electrics!
New points and Condenser
New Plugs
New Coil
New HT Leads
Wings off – tappets checked
Compression OK ish = 140 = but the the engine was cold
Petrol coming thru
Carb OK
The problem that I seem to have is that the feed from the coil to the contract breaker points, (whether open or closed), is always live
As I recall if you put a test light on the contact breaker feed and to earth it should light when the points are open and go out when the points are closed OR the other way round,.i.e. the light should go on and off when the points open and close
It is permanently lit
I am not familiar with 2CV……..but I am used to old cars…..normally there is a “top hat” plastic washer, (referred to earlier by Proff), that stops one part of the points touching the other……..there is nothing similar on the 2CV points…also if I connect a test lamp to each part of the points the light stays lit whether the points are open or closed
guess I need to check the wiring....must be earthing somewhere????
Any ideas ..am I correct in the above assumption?
Bloody electrics!
Somewhere I've got a spare points box /distributor for a 2cv I'll have a look through my sheds this week.
and If I find it or a diagram of how the points fit, I'll send it to you.
The light should definitely go out when points are open iirc
and If I find it or a diagram of how the points fit, I'll send it to you.
The light should definitely go out when points are open iirc
Somewhere I've got a spare points box /distributor for a 2cv I'll have a look through my sheds this week.
and If I find it or a diagram of how the points fit, I'll send it to you.
The light should definitely go out when points are open iirc
Thanks Proff....I have a Haynes plus another with diagrams.......it all seems OK to me.....I need to check if there is any "dodgy wiring" .......there is quite a lot of insulating tape kicking around.........but it should be simple.........
If the fly lead on your testlamp is connected to earth and the probe is connected to the wire that runs between the points & the coil, with ignition on, the testlamp should light when the points are open & go out when the points are closed.
If the testlamp lights when the points are closed, either the points or the connection between points & coil are faulty, or (unlikely) the distributor body is not earthed properly.
I don't know 2CVs, so this is a general reply, but it sounds like a straightforward problem.
If the testlamp lights when the points are closed, either the points or the connection between points & coil are faulty, or (unlikely) the distributor body is not earthed properly.
I don't know 2CVs, so this is a general reply, but it sounds like a straightforward problem.
Push the F**king thing as far away from your house as possible, throw a can of petrol over it and then toss a match from a few meters away - run like buggery and wait until the flames have dies down before ringing the insurance company. Explain that it was a 2CV - they will understand 
2ndly. Take that huge wedge you've spent your life accumulating and buy something half decent.
Yes! I have been drinking
2ndly. Take that huge wedge you've spent your life accumulating and buy something half decent.
Yes! I have been drinking
Bill the points must be shorting somewhere the arm is usually in the positive line and breaks the current I would pull them out and check that the arm is isolated from the spindle that it pivots on
In my basic diagram the power goes in and out of the coil completing the circuit in the distributor where the points arm grounds out on the fixed contact of the points to charge the coil and then breaks away again disconnecting the current to collapse the field in the coil and make a spark
If the arm is shorting on the spindle it is a made circuit whether or not the points make and break!
P.S. Don't leave the ignition on too long or you'll cook the coil!
Attachments
Push the F**king thing as far away from your house as possible, throw a can of petrol over it and then toss a match from a few meters away - run like buggery and wait until the flames have dies down before ringing the insurance company. Explain that it was a 2CV - they will understand
2ndly. Take that huge wedge you've spent your life accumulating and buy something half decent.
Yes! I have been drinking
Rob
you are supposed to be the "electrics" expert
what's wrong with the bugger
I think Jaythro summed it up well enough.
Jathro, thanks
The situation I have is as follows:
the following is a photos of the points box..........there is no distributor on the 2CV it fires on both sides at once.like our airheads
C is the feed from the coil
If I connect a 12V test lamp to the feed from the coil at the coil end, (and earth) it stays lit all the time - i.e. when both the points are open and when the points are closed
If I connect a test lamp to A and B it stays lit
B seems to have a plastic sleeve between the metal and the pivot
I have had this thing apart a number of times and all seems OK
The points are new and the condenser is new
I have cleaned everything well
The situation I have is as follows:
the following is a photos of the points box..........there is no distributor on the 2CV it fires on both sides at once.like our airheads
C is the feed from the coil
If I connect a 12V test lamp to the feed from the coil at the coil end, (and earth) it stays lit all the time - i.e. when both the points are open and when the points are closed
If I connect a test lamp to A and B it stays lit
B seems to have a plastic sleeve between the metal and the pivot
I have had this thing apart a number of times and all seems OK
The points are new and the condenser is new
I have cleaned everything well
Bill,
If you short C to earth and then break the connection the coil should spark. Have you tried this?
If you short C to earth and then break the connection the coil should spark. Have you tried this?
Sorry Rob...do not understand...."the coil should spark"
Hi Bill,
if your testlamp lights at point A on your picture, the body of the points unit cannot be earthed & that's why the car won't start.
Run a lead from a good earth to the body of the points mounting then see if it starts.
if your testlamp lights at point A on your picture, the body of the points unit cannot be earthed & that's why the car won't start.
Run a lead from a good earth to the body of the points mounting then see if it starts.
Bill close the points
then attach the test lamp to each side of the points
either rotate the engine by hand or insert a non metal thing i.e. "pencil?" and gently prise open the points,
Does the testlamp light when you just open the points? Or is it open whilst the points are closed? (it shouldn't be but hey things are wierd or you'd not be asking
Now if the lamp lights just as you split them that is as normal and is the point at which your timing marks should be at for the timing
e.g. if the ignition timing is 6 degrees before top dead centre you would set the pulley to that mark and then rotate the distributor (base plate in this instance) so the lamp just lights That would be your static timing set, lock it up!
Now the other end of things rather than spinning the motor over just plug a spare coil lead and sparkpug in and earth it well
then with the points in the closed position MANUALLY flick the points open and closed with your pencil is the plug sparking???
If you have done all as above, I would tend to think that yer coil is stuffed??
then attach the test lamp to each side of the points
either rotate the engine by hand or insert a non metal thing i.e. "pencil?" and gently prise open the points,
Does the testlamp light when you just open the points? Or is it open whilst the points are closed? (it shouldn't be but hey things are wierd or you'd not be asking
Now if the lamp lights just as you split them that is as normal and is the point at which your timing marks should be at for the timing
e.g. if the ignition timing is 6 degrees before top dead centre you would set the pulley to that mark and then rotate the distributor (base plate in this instance) so the lamp just lights That would be your static timing set, lock it up!
Now the other end of things rather than spinning the motor over just plug a spare coil lead and sparkpug in and earth it well
then with the points in the closed position MANUALLY flick the points open and closed with your pencil is the plug sparking???
If you have done all as above, I would tend to think that yer coil is stuffed??
