R1150 GS suspension replacement/rebuild?

[Paul Young]

I’d start off by sending your OEM shocks to Lukasz (Denzo). He can re-spring and re-valve them to suit your needs, using a jig to test them afterwards. They won’t be like Ohlins but they will work better than new, and better than many aftermarket options for a lot less cost. They will also become serviceable in future.

 

[DrFarkoff]

With full luggage the ride is great, its a rear shock problem, and its difficult to diagnose as it doesn't bounce when pushed down. The spring pre load works fine, with plenty of height when set high.......don't think its a spring problem, but I think the shock needs either replaced or serviced. Thanks

and there you have your answer @Johny w i.e. "with weight its great"

= You need to go over the initial set up and start from a baseline

What do you have the front shock preload collar set to? If it's high and you weigh 75 kg back it right off I have never needed that above one click loaded and I am a big guy

For the rear preload if you look at the adjustment cylinder you will see a red dot or Moyen or STD that is the normal setting If you are 75kg then that should do I usually set 90 ~100kg people at about a 1/3rd of the distance but it is a "feel" thing too to be truthful But if that gets it in the ball park at least it is ridable

At the bottom of the shock there is a big flat head screw Is it screwed right in ??

the way that I set them for so many folks and it seem to work its about 7 "half" turns from screwed fully out (lightest rebound) to fully in (Highest rebound) I usually went to 4 half turns screwed in from sully out (or 3 (if you are quite light ?)

The big thing to remember is that you may be used to Other types of suspension and these are different

To quote a local racer who explained to me about setting up suspension

The front end is like an 18 year olds boobies Firm but yet still pliable

The rear more like a mid 30s to early 40s set of Boobies Pliable but much more supple and a bit of movement but not really saggy .....

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

With full luggage the ride is great, its a rear shock problem, and its difficult to diagnose as it doesn't bounce when pushed down. The spring pre load works fine, with plenty of height when set high.......don't think its a spring problem, but I think the shock needs either replaced or serviced. Thanks

Your shock spring sounds too heavy in nM for solo riding if it’s ok with luggage

 

[DrFarkoff]

Your shock spring sounds too heavy in nM for solo riding if it’s ok with luggage

Or very incorrectly set up OEM @JohnnyBoxer

Or I suspect he would have mentioned a different coloured Yellow/Purple/Red spring ???

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Or very incorrectly set up OEM @JohnnyBoxer

Or I suspect he would have mentioned a different coloured Yellow/Purple/Red spring ???

Maybe, maybe not
Who knows?

 

[Johny w]

Thanks guys, the springs are both white, shocks are showa, and the front is set low and seems fine.
I'll try more adjustments ....thanks a lot

 

[jefformston]

Yeh, certainly looks that way, what's confusing for me is that when pushing down on the bike, it comes back up as I'd expect, and doesn't bounce. But when riding, my spine suffers from getting jarred......it was bad today!!

That’s similar to how mine felt before the rear was worked on by T-Tech, it was still more compliant than the suspension on the newish Blood Bike R1250RT’s I sometimes ride even at 115,000 miles, but not how it was when new. It’s now back, ( even better) as it was when new. It has always been way better than the suspension on my R1200GSA (2012) and now very similar to my KTM 1290 SAS in ‘road’ mode.

 

[Johny w]

and there you have your answer @Johny w i.e. "with weight its great"

= You need to go over the initial set up and start from a baseline

What do you have the front shock preload collar set to? If it's high and you weigh 75 kg back it right off I have never needed that above one click loaded and I am a big guy

For the rear preload if you look at the adjustment cylinder you will see a red dot or Moyen or STD that is the normal setting If you are 75kg then that should do I usually set 90 ~100kg people at about a 1/3rd of the distance but it is a "feel" thing too to be truthful But if that gets it in the ball park at least it is ridable

At the bottom of the shock there is a big flat head screw Is it screwed right in ??

the way that I set them for so many folks and it seem to work its about 7 "half" turns from screwed fully out (lightest rebound) to fully in (Highest rebound) I usually went to 4 half turns screwed in from sully out (or 3 (if you are quite light ?)

The big thing to remember is that you may be used to Other types of suspension and these are different

To quote a local racer who explained to me about setting up suspension

The front end is like an 18 year olds boobies Firm but yet still pliable

The rear more like a mid 30s to early 40s set of Boobies Pliable but much more supple and a bit of movement but not really saggy .....

I'm 15st with my gear on, so I'll have a go as you suggested.....on the red dot and I'll try 4x half turns in from fully out. Thanks.

 

[Johny w]

Well eventually I've had my rear shock serviced at a cost of £220 and it feels exactly the same.
I've tried all adjustments, and the best I can come up with is one and a half turns from fully in.
Tried lots and lots of settings on the adjuster, and I'm really pissed off.

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Well eventually I've had my rear shock serviced at a cost of £220 and it feels exactly the same.
I've tried all adjustments, and the best I can come up with is one and a half turns from fully in.
Tried lots and lots of settings on the adjuster, and I'm really pissed off.

That's a shame

Most oem suspension across all marques is fairly budget stuff

However most punters are happy with it, as most haven't got a clue about suspension and just 'crank' it up the max

I remember riding Micky's 1150GS at around the turn of the millenium, shod with Ohlins (I think) and the difference between my bike and his was astonishing

After that I bought a pair of Ohlins

Both my 1150's are shod with Ohlins on front and rear with correct springs for my application

My Tenere 700 also has Ohlins forks and shock and the difference is amazing

My 350EXC enduro whilst having top type of Open Cartridge WP has been revalved and re-sprung for me, it's so much better now

Even my lowly XR400 has had a suspension spring upgrade

Suspension work is the best money you can spend on a bike, however not many people do it

 

[Johny w]

That's a shame

Most oem suspension across all marques is fairly budget stuff

However most punters are happy with it, as most haven't got a clue about suspension and just 'crank' it up the max

I remember riding Micky's 1150GS at around the turn of the millenium, shod with Ohlins (I think) and the difference between my bike and his was astonishing

After that I bought a pair of Ohlins

Both my 1150's are shod with Ohlins on front and rear with correct springs for my application

My Tenere 700 also has Ohlins forks and shock and the difference is amazing

My 350EXC enduro whilst having top type of Open Cartridge WP has been revalved and re-sprung for me, it's so much better now

Even my lowly XR400 has had a suspension spring upgrade

Suspension work is the best money you can spend on a bike, however not many people do it

Well quite honestly, it's the most wastefull money I've ever spent on a bike

 

[JohnnyBoxer]

Well quite honestly, it's the most wastefull money I've ever spent on a bike

I can understand your pain at spending £220 & feeling you wasted it

Part of my upgrades entailed time spent at suspension tuning company with me there

Setting up the bike, measuring,
adjusting things, explaining it to me and how to tell if it needs further adjustment and then follow up after a few months to see if any further tweaks are needed

For example the Tenere Ohlins are a big improvement over stock KYB and are great with luggage and/or going faster …..however just ‘bimbling’ solo the shock spring is a bit harsh, so is going to be swapped for a lighter one

Suspension tuning is about a process of continuous improvement until you get it better and it suits you

It’s not like getting a starter motor refurbished and re fitting it

 

[Johny w]

I can understand your pain at spending £220 & feeling you wasted it

Part of my upgrades entailed time spent at suspension tuning company with me there

Setting up the bike, measuring,
adjusting things, explaining it to me and how to tell if it needs further adjustment and then follow up after a few months to see if any further tweaks are needed

For example the Tenere Ohlins are a big improvement over stock KYB and are great with luggage and/or going faster …..however just ‘bimbling’ solo the shock spring is a bit harsh, so is going to be swapped for a lighter one

Suspension tuning is about a process of continuous improvement until you get it better and it suits you

It’s not like getting a starter motor refurbished and re fitting it

Thanks for that input, I've been out Trying to sort it today, and funny enough I have a similar issue......I got somewhere which felt pretty good on the rebound at faster road speeds, but when I was going say 20-30 it was very jittery......I also found the front shock played a big part in the bouncing and when I set it to the third notch from soft it felt much less jittery. So came home feeling a bit happier. But it's still not how I would like it.......when I set the rear any softer it gets bouncy.
I've found around one and a half turns from hard anticlockwise about the ball park, and the third notch up from soft on the front was more comfortable, but maybe a bit skippy.......maybe the front shock is knackered, but they are apparently unserviceable.

 

[Udders]

maybe the front shock is knackered, but they are apparently unserviceable.

I’m pretty sure they are serviceable by the right people.

 

[Johny w]

I’m pretty sure they are serviceable by the right people.

T-Tech Suspension couldn't do anything with the front, but I may consider getting a new front shock for next year.

 

[PIGGLET]

The difference between even well set up OEM shocks and quality custom tuned aftermarket is night and day. It's all about the damping.
It's particularly noticeable on rougher back roads.
Stock shocks can be well past their best at 20K miles but as the degradation is gradual its not easy to check. Simply bouncing a a bike to test the shocks will tell you absolutely fuck all.

If you want to get the best out of your suspension you need to either understand how each parameter impacts the performance or take the bike to someone who can help you with set up.
You don't want to use preload on the spring unless you are between spring weights because it compromises the sensitivity of the spring which is why getting the correct spring rate for your weight is critical To small bump compliance. The damping platform then has to be tuned to control that spring and the loads you impart on it. High-speed and low speed compression circuits allow you to have a shock which is both supportive during cornering, acceleration and compression to keep the bike stableand agile but also super responsive to small bumps so prevents the spine jarring chatter.


When setting up suspension, if you aren't sure whether it needs to be firmer or softer etc then bracketing can be a useful excercise:
As a starting point correctly set the Sag (will probably need someone to help with this) and tyre pressures.
Pick a stretch of road with some bumps and twisties and then ride it with the compression and rebound adjuster in the mid positions.
Do it again with compression set to fully soft/out.
Do it again with compression fully firm/in.
You should now know which side of the mid position feels best and can fine tune. Do the same for rebound once you have adjusted the compression circuit.
As a rough guide rebound wants to be as fast (wound as far out) as possible in order to let the shock react to rapid repeat bumps without it becoming a pogo stick and bouncing uncontrollably. Too much rebound causes the shock to pack down and feel harsh.
If you value performance and comfort and can afford it then custom aftermarket is the way to go.

 

[Johny w]

The difference between even well set up OEM shocks and quality custom tuned aftermarket is night and day. It's all about the damping.
It's particularly noticeable on rougher back roads.
Stock shocks can be well past their best at 20K miles but as the degradation is gradual its not easy to check. Simply bouncing a a bike to test the shocks will tell you absolutely fuck all.

If you want to get the best out of your suspension you need to either understand how each parameter impacts the performance or take the bike to someone who can help you with set up.
You don't want to use preload on the spring unless you are between spring weights because it compromises the sensitivity of the spring which is why getting the correct spring rate for your weight is critical To small bump compliance. The damping platform then has to be tuned to control that spring and the loads you impart on it. High-speed and low speed compression circuits allow you to have a shock which is both supportive during cornering, acceleration and compression to keep the bike stableand agile but also super responsive to small bumps so prevents the spine jarring chatter.


When setting up suspension, if you aren't sure whether it needs to be firmer or softer etc then bracketing can be a useful excercise:
As a starting point correctly set the Sag (will probably need someone to help with this) and tyre pressures.
Pick a stretch of road with some bumps and twisties and then ride it with the compression and rebound adjuster in the mid positions.
Do it again with compression set to fully soft/out.
Do it again with compression fully firm/in.
You should now know which side of the mid position feels best and can fine tune. Do the same for rebound once you have adjusted the compression circuit.
As a rough guide rebound wants to be as fast (wound as far out) as possible in order to let the shock react to rapid repeat bumps without it becoming a pogo stick and bouncing uncontrollably. Too much rebound causes the shock to pack down and feel harsh.
If you value performance and comfort and can afford it then custom aftermarket is the way to go.

I've done the sag and bracketing, I got it better, but going slow over bumps and going faster is like chalk and cheese.
And when I'm loaded for camping it's lovely. Thanks for the reply Piglet

 

[GedJack]

That's a shame

Most oem suspension across all marques is fairly budget stuff

However most punters are happy with it, as most haven't got a clue about suspension and just 'crank' it up the max

I remember riding Micky's 1150GS at around the turn of the millenium, shod with Ohlins (I think) and the difference between my bike and his was astonishing

After that I bought a pair of Ohlins

Both my 1150's are shod with Ohlins on front and rear with correct springs for my application

My Tenere 700 also has Ohlins forks and shock and the difference is amazing

My 350EXC enduro whilst having top type of Open Cartridge WP has been revalved and re-sprung for me, it's so much better now

Even my lowly XR400 has had a suspension spring upgrade

Suspension work is the best money you can spend on a bike, however not many people do it

Totally agree. I just favour Maxton units.

 

[Johny w]

The difference between even well set up OEM shocks and quality custom tuned aftermarket is night and day. It's all about the damping.
It's particularly noticeable on rougher back roads.
Stock shocks can be well past their best at 20K miles but as the degradation is gradual its not easy to check. Simply bouncing a a bike to test the shocks will tell you absolutely fuck all.

If you want to get the best out of your suspension you need to either understand how each parameter impacts the performance or take the bike to someone who can help you with set up.
You don't want to use preload on the spring unless you are between spring weights because it compromises the sensitivity of the spring which is why getting the correct spring rate for your weight is critical To small bump compliance. The damping platform then has to be tuned to control that spring and the loads you impart on it. High-speed and low speed compression circuits allow you to have a shock which is both supportive during cornering, acceleration and compression to keep the bike stableand agile but also super responsive to small bumps so prevents the spine jarring chatter.


When setting up suspension, if you aren't sure whether it needs to be firmer or softer etc then bracketing can be a useful excercise:
As a starting point correctly set the Sag (will probably need someone to help with this) and tyre pressures.
Pick a stretch of road with some bumps and twisties and then ride it with the compression and rebound adjuster in the mid positions.
Do it again with compression set to fully soft/out.
Do it again with compression fully firm/in.
You should now know which side of the mid position feels best and can fine tune. Do the same for rebound once you have adjusted the compression circuit.
As a rough guide rebound wants to be as fast (wound as far out) as possible in order to let the shock react to rapid repeat bumps without it becoming a pogo stick and bouncing uncontrollably. Too much rebound causes the shock to pack down and feel harsh.
If you value performance and comfort and can afford it then custom aftermarket is the way to go.

Any thoughts about Protech Shocks? They are a lot cheaper.

 

[PIGGLET]

I have no experience of using protech shocks but having had a look at them I personally wouldn't buy what is claimed to be a brand new, custom made shock for the same price you have had to pay to get your existing damper reconditioned. You've already experienced the results of trying to sort this issue on the cheap.
At 115KG you are asking a lot of the suspension and outside optimum design spec for the OE suspension.

Have a look at brooks suspension. Marc is very clued up and offers sound advice but you need to know what you want and are trying to achieve.
Springs are relatively simple, dampers less so and can use different methods to control the oil flow hence differing levels of adjustment, complexity and cost, Bladder vs emulsion etc.

Having run Ohlins and Wilbers in the past I am now using Nitron as supplied by brooks and I have been very happy with the both the service and the performance of the shocks for the price and think they represent good value.
Nitron are a UK company so in theory the support should be at least as good as the likes of Ohlins etc but I have yet to have to deal with a problem or have a shock serviced.

While I would agree that the rear shock has the greatest impact on handling, if replacing the rear with an aftermarket custom tuned shock then I would also change the front to match as the original front will be an unknown and at odds with the set up of the rear. Having run a GS with a stock front and custom rear I deffinitely did notice the improvement in replacing the front but then I am relatively light, ride mainly solo and ride'progressively' at times as opposed to just bimbling along two up.

Ultimately it's your money and your bike, it's up to you to decide which route to go down.