R1150GS Won't Idle when hot

KOS

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The GS bike started to have problems with trouble starting and very low idle when hot. Did a lot of searching - lambda or ECU, fortunately I have both a 1150GS and 1150RT so swapped the ECUs over but problem remained. Figured it must therefore be the Lamda sensor. Bike is OK when cold but once it heats up it won't idle - drops to 1000rpm then slowly drops until the engine stops. Unplug the Lambda all seems OK. So bit the bullet and bought a new one from Motorworks "NGK Lambda Probe (R1150 R1100S K1200)" Fitted that all seemed OK until today. Had one run into town the other day all OK but only a short run. Today had a longer run with a bit of higher speed 80 85 ish. Stopped :confused:a couple of times but no noticeable change but when I got home the old idle problem was back. I need to do a bit more investigation myself but any thoughts out there?
 
Borrow a gs-911 and capture a realtime log

Or, monitor the battery voltage while the rpm is dropping.

What happens if you open the throttle?

Try cleaning the bbs and then opening the throttle while the rpm is dropping.
 
Thoughts yes Subs are a mere £12 quid :rob

While subscribing is of course a good thing, we don't (or at least shouldn't) withhold help and advice in the tech forums just because someone isn't a subscriber.
 
While subscribing is of course a good thing, we don't (or at least shouldn't) withhold help and advice in the tech forums just because someone isn't a subscriber.

Quite so Equally it's customary to say hello in one's first post and not merely wade in with an expectation of help :rolleyes:
 
My Apologise - didn't mean to be rude.

I've been searching for help on this since the problem started and thank you for your help. I have just done a top end clean out to try and solve the problem which started on my trip to Nordkapp this June. Gave the heads a thorough decoke, cleaned the throttle tubes, bypass screws etc. balanced the throttles at idle and through the throttle range. New plugs (4) new oil etc. And a new Lambda probe. Can only think the new probe has failed as the symptoms are exactly the same as with the old probe. The new probe seemed to work OK initially and then 2nd time out came back with the old problem.
P.S happy to subscribe didn't know it was a requirement. The Bike has done 107K

KOS
 
P.S happy to subscribe didn't know it was a requirement.

KOS


It's not but at £12 it's money well spent as it not only opens more of the forum to you but as you've already witnessed some of the gang can be a little tetchy when they think someone's popped in for some free advice & then fecks off without having made any sort of contribution to the 'community'. Welcome aboard by the way, hope you get an answer somewhere along the line. I know how frustrating these intermittent problems can be. If it is rideable you could do worse than pop down to the big smoke and seek the help of the guru that is 'Steptoe'.
 
Good you have done a few of the diagnostic steps.
Twinspark coils seem to cause problems after a certain age.... search on that.
 
stick coils

see if you can borrow a couple of second hand stick coils they may be breaking down when hot worth a try
welcome to planet earth :thumb
 
Thought I would have another fiddle to see if I can find the problem. So spent a few hours today trying various things Took the tank off to move the Lambda sensor plug so I could disconnect it with the tank on. Moved it and sorted the problem, but no back it came. Swapped the stick coils with the RT - sorted the problem - but no back it came. Ran the bike hot and it cleared then came back again. Then thought maybe, as it comes and goes could it be the TPS. OK I know you shouldn't move it but lets see what happens. Shifted it just a fraction clockwise and the fault went, all running nicely, moved it back to its original position and back came the fault. Wish now I had measured the voltage before I moved it but any way having moved it it read .44V reset it to .36V throttle closed. And it now seems OK. Just need to give it a test ride and see what happens. I am wondering if, with its age, the closed throttle position is a bit worn and not always giving the correct voltage. Maybe the whole thing is a bit worn and needs replacing. It is certainly something that is OK one minute and then goes on the blink for a bit. Is there a TPS expert out there?
 
Very possibly the problem. A metal wiper slides on a thin resistive film, which can wear. 0.36 volts is a good setting.

It makes sense now to pull fuse 5 for 5 minutes to reset the MOTRONIC adaptives. Then reinstall, rotate the throttle fully twice with the key on but not running. Then key off and you're good to go.
 
Sorry for the delay - been a bit busy - but here is what I have done which seems to have fixed the problem. May help someone in the future. Referring to my earlier post having thought that maybe part of the problem is the TPS I removed it completely from the throttle body. Took a bit of gentle persuasion as there was a fair amount of corrosion in the throttle body fitting. (been there for 110K miles all weathers)
Checked the resistance with an accurate DVM to see if the output was smooth over its range and all seemed OK. Unfortunately the Data sheet for the 4 contact TPS does not give absolute resistance values, only ratios. However the resistances increased consistently without any jumps so I figured it was probably working OK. So having cleared out the corrosion I refitted the TPS and carried out the “Zero = Zero” process.
Now here is the rub. The left hand cable from the combiner unit is too short. (I bought a new one in case mine was a rogue but the new one is exactly the same) To get the throttle onto its stop the adjuster is slackened off fully and I mean fully. Therefore to slacken off the throttle stop screw to fully close the butterfly I had to disconnect the cable. Any way I unscrewed the stop screw until there was a gap and the butterfly fully shut. (during the overhaul I had thoroughly cleaned out the throttle bodies and polished the throats – there was quite a build up of ingested oil via the air box breather – do you remember to drain the air box occasionally via the drain plug at the rear nearside corner? – I was surprised how much oil had collected there.)
Connected wires to the TPS as the various methods say and set the TPS to its minimum voltage with the ignition on. Lowest reading was 2mA so to make sure I was on the end of the pot I set it to 3mA. Lock the TPS there and then adjusted the throttle stop screw to give 360mA. Locking the screw with everything in place is a bit of a fiddle so once locked down the reading was 376mA but OK in the stated range of 360 to 400mA.
Reconnected the cable and fortunately could still get the throttle on the stop! Set the 2 idle screws to one full turn out connected up the TwinMax. Pulled fuse 5 for a minute to clear the Motronic then with the fuse in and ignition on gave the throttle fully open a couple of times started the engine – no problem. Then when warmed up set the RH throttle stop screw to balance the throttles. Then adjusted the cables to balance the throttles through their range.
Idle speed did not need adjusting from the initial setting of the idle screws – one full turn out.
Did a test ride (60ish miles) and the bike is better than ever. It was never very happy at lowish revs in 6th but now I can happily tootle at 30 in 6th and it will even with gentle throttle accelerate away in 6th from 30.
Conclusion:- the initial problem was probably a failure of the Lambda sensor but at some time when I was using BMW to service it some one readjusted the TPS. Obviously the Motronic could cope with the TPS being slightly out but once the Lambda went it all got too much. Plus the slight build up of crud in the throttle chokes over the miles probably did not help. But now I have an 11 year old 110K miles R1150GS which is running like new!
Thank you all for your comments I hope this helps someone else in the future.
 
Conclusion:- the initial problem was probably a failure of the Lambda sensor but at some time when I was using BMW to service it some one readjusted the TPS. Obviously the Motronic could cope with the TPS being slightly out but once the Lambda went it all got too much. Plus the slight build up of crud in the throttle chokes over the miles probably did not help. But now I have an 11 year old 110K miles R1150GS which is running like new!
Thank you all for your comments I hope this helps someone else in the future.

Excellent - glad you got it sorted and thanks for posting your findings. I'm sure I'll refer back to this thread at some point in the future. Ta:thumb
 
Sorry for the delay - been a bit busy - but here is what I have done which seems to have fixed the problem. May help someone in the future. Referring to my earlier post having thought that maybe part of the problem is the TPS I removed it completely from the throttle body. Took a bit of gentle persuasion as there was a fair amount of corrosion in the throttle body fitting. (been there for 110K miles all weathers)
Checked the resistance with an accurate DVM to see if the output was smooth over its range and all seemed OK. Unfortunately the Data sheet for the 4 contact TPS does not give absolute resistance values, only ratios. However the resistances increased consistently without any jumps so I figured it was probably working OK. So having cleared out the corrosion I refitted the TPS and carried out the “Zero = Zero” process.
Now here is the rub. The left hand cable from the combiner unit is too short. (I bought a new one in case mine was a rogue but the new one is exactly the same) To get the throttle onto its stop the adjuster is slackened off fully and I mean fully. Therefore to slacken off the throttle stop screw to fully close the butterfly I had to disconnect the cable. Any way I unscrewed the stop screw until there was a gap and the butterfly fully shut. (during the overhaul I had thoroughly cleaned out the throttle bodies and polished the throats – there was quite a build up of ingested oil via the air box breather – do you remember to drain the air box occasionally via the drain plug at the rear nearside corner? – I was surprised how much oil had collected there.)
Connected wires to the TPS as the various methods say and set the TPS to its minimum voltage with the ignition on. Lowest reading was 2mA so to make sure I was on the end of the pot I set it to 3mA. Lock the TPS there and then adjusted the throttle stop screw to give 360mA. Locking the screw with everything in place is a bit of a fiddle so once locked down the reading was 376mA but OK in the stated range of 360 to 400mA.
Reconnected the cable and fortunately could still get the throttle on the stop! Set the 2 idle screws to one full turn out connected up the TwinMax. Pulled fuse 5 for a minute to clear the Motronic then with the fuse in and ignition on gave the throttle fully open a couple of times started the engine – no problem. Then when warmed up set the RH throttle stop screw to balance the throttles. Then adjusted the cables to balance the throttles through their range.
Idle speed did not need adjusting from the initial setting of the idle screws – one full turn out.
Did a test ride (60ish miles) and the bike is better than ever. It was never very happy at lowish revs in 6th but now I can happily tootle at 30 in 6th and it will even with gentle throttle accelerate away in 6th from 30.
Conclusion:- the initial problem was probably a failure of the Lambda sensor but at some time when I was using BMW to service it some one readjusted the TPS. Obviously the Motronic could cope with the TPS being slightly out but once the Lambda went it all got too much. Plus the slight build up of crud in the throttle chokes over the miles probably did not help. But now I have an 11 year old 110K miles R1150GS which is running like new!
Thank you all for your comments I hope this helps someone else in the future.

Have a quick read through this thread, especially near the end. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=996719

Since you're familiar with the TPS spec by Bosch it should be easy to see that at 0 degrees you should set 250 mV, then open to 350 mV. Zero=zero should be zero=250 many have had good results.
 


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