Bugbear
Registered user
You beat me to it 'skywalker' I would definitely be looking for an air-leak on the induction side.
R1200GSA erratic idle, misfire, pre-ignition, detonation, ping, knock and stall
- Thread starter CandyMan_ZA
- Start date
You beat me to it 'skywalker' I would definitely be looking for an air-leak on the induction side.
CandyMan_ZA
Registered user
Anyone speak German?
Hi guys, this matter has still not been resolved. BMW South Africa are defiant and will not acknowledge that there is any issue. I still have this problem and have been contacted by many other riders who also experience this intermittent 'misfire' (or pre-ignition, detonation) on their 1200GS's. This seems to be more specific to the DOHC models and more so here in South Africa (although others have reported similar symptoms). I would like to post this to a German BMW motorcycle club forum and see if anyone there has an 'inside' contact in BMW Germany.
Most frustrating
Kevin
Cape Town
South Africa
Hi guys, this matter has still not been resolved. BMW South Africa are defiant and will not acknowledge that there is any issue. I still have this problem and have been contacted by many other riders who also experience this intermittent 'misfire' (or pre-ignition, detonation) on their 1200GS's. This seems to be more specific to the DOHC models and more so here in South Africa (although others have reported similar symptoms). I would like to post this to a German BMW motorcycle club forum and see if anyone there has an 'inside' contact in BMW Germany.
Most frustrating
Kevin
Cape Town
South Africa
Bendy toy
Registered user
Have you tried using octane booster in the fuel?
CandyMan_ZA
Registered user
R1200GS pinging, detonation, knocking
yup, I could feel an improvement in power from my butt dyno but still had the same erratic throttle response with pinging and detonation and occasional stall.
yup, I could feel an improvement in power from my butt dyno but still had the same erratic throttle response with pinging and detonation and occasional stall.
havent listened to them all but I dont see anything worth bothering about with the last two. the 1200 gs engine is too big a capacity for just two cylinders ( which is why it has twin plugs - flame front doesnt move fast enough with just one plug per cylinder) and as a consequence it is lumpy and inherently rough compared with ( say ) Triumphs 800 triple. Add into that the f*rting around with emission limits imposed by the EU and you keeping the poor thing idling for three minutes, I'm not surprised it isnt as smooth as a Jap four.
Ride it and stop worrying
Here's something to try.
I've complained of a similar thing for the last 60,000 odd miles and 9 or 10 services.
On the last service I supplied some Iriduim plugs along with the rest of the service items as the bike was in for the big 72k service.) previously I let dealer supply the standard plugs)
On picking up the bikem the misfire/flat spot just of idle was gone, bike rode the best it has ever done.
When I was next into the dealer I mentioned this as I wanted to know if they had done anything different or whether it was the plugs I supplied.
One thing a very experianced guy there said was that with the modern bikes and only one TPS on the LH Throttle body, is that he likes to set them up with the LH TB leading slightly. Meaning that actually the balance is slighty off as the LH TB is leading.
This eliminates the possability of the RH butterfly opening up a tad before the LH, while the system still things the steppers should be controlling the tickover and doesn't add any fuel for the extra air from the RH side.
Just a thought and easy to set up and test.
I came across this thread as unfortunatly my bike has started to develop a misfire at around 3k revs at part throttle. I think it's water related as it seems to happens when I've either hosed the bike down (to remove salt ) after a ride or a ride in heavy rain and always th e next day after a nights stop.
I did remove coil caps and dry of everything and will test on way home, only done the easy ones tho.
HTH
\v/
I've complained of a similar thing for the last 60,000 odd miles and 9 or 10 services.
On the last service I supplied some Iriduim plugs along with the rest of the service items as the bike was in for the big 72k service.) previously I let dealer supply the standard plugs)
On picking up the bikem the misfire/flat spot just of idle was gone, bike rode the best it has ever done.
When I was next into the dealer I mentioned this as I wanted to know if they had done anything different or whether it was the plugs I supplied.
One thing a very experianced guy there said was that with the modern bikes and only one TPS on the LH Throttle body, is that he likes to set them up with the LH TB leading slightly. Meaning that actually the balance is slighty off as the LH TB is leading.
This eliminates the possability of the RH butterfly opening up a tad before the LH, while the system still things the steppers should be controlling the tickover and doesn't add any fuel for the extra air from the RH side.
Just a thought and easy to set up and test.
I came across this thread as unfortunatly my bike has started to develop a misfire at around 3k revs at part throttle. I think it's water related as it seems to happens when I've either hosed the bike down (to remove salt ) after a ride or a ride in heavy rain and always th e next day after a nights stop.
I did remove coil caps and dry of everything and will test on way home, only done the easy ones tho.
HTH
\v/
Bendy toy
Registered user
Throttle blipping on downshifts helps the gearbox as the moving parts will be at similar speeds. Blipping on upshifts is a bad idea because it seriously missmatches the shaft speeds. Throttle blipping however can muddle the ECU fuel mixture control. It whacks in more fuel when the trottle opens suddenly then cuts it again when the throttle shuts. Invariably it wont get the mixture right and may tend towards a lean mixture. Lean mixture can cause pre ignition.
Carburettors would probably go rich with the same conditions so no pooping etc.
Try a 10K resisitor in the inlet ar temperature circuit or fit an Acclerator Mudule http://www.sol2.be/Performance/ENG/Home/index.html
They trick the ECU into thinking the air is cold and therfore more dense so it richens the fuel mixture.
Carburettors would probably go rich with the same conditions so no pooping etc.
Try a 10K resisitor in the inlet ar temperature circuit or fit an Acclerator Mudule http://www.sol2.be/Performance/ENG/Home/index.html
They trick the ECU into thinking the air is cold and therfore more dense so it richens the fuel mixture.
On the subject of the misfire after washing - check the injector connectors that sit on the top of the inlet manifold. I was getting a random misfire after the bike got washed - it turned out this connector was half full of water.
As far as the original post is concerned and that misfire, I used to have this problem on my 08 GSA when I had the OEM exhaust/air filter etc fitted. My set up now is decatted headers/Akro can/Wunderlich fuel controller/K&N air filter and Iridium plugs. I have absoltely no real idea how that has solved it but I've been running this set up for a long enough time now to be convinced it has.
bone48
Registered user
davegs
the slow burn (flame front) on big (badly designed) cylinderheads and emmisons are related, hence the twin plugs #justsaying
the slow burn (flame front) on big (badly designed) cylinderheads and emmisons are related, hence the twin plugs #justsaying
Thanks for the tip on checking the injector plugs, I had them off when I replaced the steppers, so will take a look at them again.
\v/
Bendy toy
Registered user
davegs
the slow burn (flame front) on big (badly designed) cylinderheads and emmisons are related, hence the twin plugs #justsaying
Alfa Romeo also had twin spark heads with 500cc cylinders. They are not the first manufacturer I think of when it comes to poor engine design.
Hello - a few weeks back (about 12 miles into the journey on picking up the bike from Park Lane BMW after they changed the FPC which had failed), I experienced the random rough idling, power bursting in after initial sluggish acceleration, tendency to want to stall on down-shift, etc - all the confidence-builders you need in the rush-hour inside the M25 ring...
Pulled into a layby, switched off ignition, switched on again, slowly opened and closed the throttle 3 times, hit the starter button and all was OK. Thought great, fantastic, problem gone... and then thought no more about it.
This morning, on the A12 in heavy traffic, same symptoms but worse... it actually did stall on a down-shift, but it restarted and I was able to get into a convenient bus pull-in. It took aboult 6 or more attempts to reset the TPS (assuming that's what was wrong) before I was able to restart the bike running clean.
It did seem to me that the operation of the throttle when trying the recallibrate action was a bit, well, "notchy" for want of a better description i.e. it opened with normal resistance up to a certain point then it seemed there was more back-pressure. Difficult to describe but, like there was a heavier spring I was pulling against. And just to add to my confusion, this "soft stop" point seemed to vary...
Tomorrow I'm intending to speak to Cannon BMW (my "local" dealer - 30+ miles away but there it is) to have them investigate as the bike is under warranty until next month - called them on the phone today but they're open Tue-Sat only - meantime, any thoughts anyone?
Yes I do tend to gently blip the throttle on down-shifts but not excessively, just to ease the cogs so to speak - but this morning it seemed to be a matter that I had started to accelerate then had to abruptly throttle back because of some twonk who decided being in my lane was better than his...
Once I had cleared the problem the remainder of the journey seemed normal. Just leaving work now so will see how the return journey goes.
Pulled into a layby, switched off ignition, switched on again, slowly opened and closed the throttle 3 times, hit the starter button and all was OK. Thought great, fantastic, problem gone... and then thought no more about it.
This morning, on the A12 in heavy traffic, same symptoms but worse... it actually did stall on a down-shift, but it restarted and I was able to get into a convenient bus pull-in. It took aboult 6 or more attempts to reset the TPS (assuming that's what was wrong) before I was able to restart the bike running clean.
It did seem to me that the operation of the throttle when trying the recallibrate action was a bit, well, "notchy" for want of a better description i.e. it opened with normal resistance up to a certain point then it seemed there was more back-pressure. Difficult to describe but, like there was a heavier spring I was pulling against. And just to add to my confusion, this "soft stop" point seemed to vary...
Tomorrow I'm intending to speak to Cannon BMW (my "local" dealer - 30+ miles away but there it is) to have them investigate as the bike is under warranty until next month - called them on the phone today but they're open Tue-Sat only - meantime, any thoughts anyone?
Yes I do tend to gently blip the throttle on down-shifts but not excessively, just to ease the cogs so to speak - but this morning it seemed to be a matter that I had started to accelerate then had to abruptly throttle back because of some twonk who decided being in my lane was better than his...
Once I had cleared the problem the remainder of the journey seemed normal. Just leaving work now so will see how the return journey goes.
Hello - a few weeks back (about 12 miles into the journey on picking up the bike from Park Lane BMW after they changed the FPC which had failed), I experienced the random rough idling, power bursting in after initial sluggish acceleration, tendency to want to stall on down-shift, etc - all the confidence-builders you need in the rush-hour inside the M25 ring...
Pulled into a layby, switched off ignition, switched on again, slowly opened and closed the throttle 3 times, hit the starter button and all was OK. Thought great, fantastic, problem gone... and then thought no more about it.
This morning, on the A12 in heavy traffic, same symptoms but worse... it actually did stall on a down-shift, but it restarted and I was able to get into a convenient bus pull-in. It took aboult 6 or more attempts to reset the TPS (assuming that's what was wrong) before I was able to restart the bike running clean.
It did seem to me that the operation of the throttle when trying the recallibrate action was a bit, well, "notchy" for want of a better description i.e. it opened with normal resistance up to a certain point then it seemed there was more back-pressure. Difficult to describe but, like there was a heavier spring I was pulling against. And just to add to my confusion, this "soft stop" point seemed to vary...
Tomorrow I'm intending to speak to Cannon BMW (my "local" dealer - 30+ miles away but there it is) to have them investigate as the bike is under warranty until next month - called them on the phone today but they're open Tue-Sat only - meantime, any thoughts anyone?
Yes I do tend to gently blip the throttle on down-shifts but not excessively, just to ease the cogs so to speak - but this morning it seemed to be a matter that I had started to accelerate then had to abruptly throttle back because of some twonk who decided being in my lane was better than his...
Once I had cleared the problem the remainder of the journey seemed normal. Just leaving work now so will see how the return journey goes.
Buggered if I know - ran sweet all the way home last night, back to work this morning, back home again tonight... I'll get Cannon Braintree to look at it but they'll likely say "nice bike, it's working well..."
Fanum
Toubab
Hello - a few weeks back (about 12 miles into the journey on picking up the bike from Park Lane BMW after they changed the FPC which had failed), I experienced the random rough idling, power bursting in after initial sluggish acceleration, tendency to want to stall on down-shift, etc - all the confidence-builders you need in the rush-hour inside the M25 ring...
Pulled into a layby, switched off ignition, switched on again, slowly opened and closed the throttle 3 times, hit the starter button and all was OK. Thought great, fantastic, problem gone... and then thought no more about it.
This morning, on the A12 in heavy traffic, same symptoms but worse... it actually did stall on a down-shift, but it restarted and I was able to get into a convenient bus pull-in. It took aboult 6 or more attempts to reset the TPS (assuming that's what was wrong) before I was able to restart the bike running clean.
It did seem to me that the operation of the throttle when trying the recallibrate action was a bit, well, "notchy" for want of a better description i.e. it opened with normal resistance up to a certain point then it seemed there was more back-pressure. Difficult to describe but, like there was a heavier spring I was pulling against. And just to add to my confusion, this "soft stop" point seemed to vary...
Tomorrow I'm intending to speak to Cannon BMW (my "local" dealer - 30+ miles away but there it is) to have them investigate as the bike is under warranty until next month - called them on the phone today but they're open Tue-Sat only - meantime, any thoughts anyone?
Yes I do tend to gently blip the throttle on down-shifts but not excessively, just to ease the cogs so to speak - but this morning it seemed to be a matter that I had started to accelerate then had to abruptly throttle back because of some twonk who decided being in my lane was better than his...
Once I had cleared the problem the remainder of the journey seemed normal. Just leaving work now so will see how the return journey goes.
Sticky/frayed throttle cables in or after the bowden box?
(I don't even know if a 12 has a splitter box tbh)
Just sounds like your specific problem could be linked to sticking cables Mick......'resetting' the TPS would work 1st time, but having to wank the throttle open and closed 6 times to get it to smooth out again might just be a symptom of a cable sticking.....your opening and closing multiple times might have freed it
Might be talking out of my hat (it has been known
) but that was the first thing I imagined when I read your post there.check both cables are completely seated in the throttle bodies, that there's no damage to the cable cap thingy or the receptacle it sits in , maybe give it a bloody good squirt out with WD40 or brake cleaner followed by Wd40, and see if both sides move evenly.
Maybe there's some grit or road shit caught up around the cable cam mechanism or a something like that......but as a simple DIY potential fix for free, it's got to be worth ruling out
Bendy toy
Registered user
If the dealer simply puts the ECU analyser on it they will no doubt get some fault readings. Be careful they make sure the basics (like cables) are OK before changing parts like the TPS.
Or someone with a GS-911 nearby? (SA South Africa)
Sticky/frayed throttle cables in or after the bowden box?
(I don't even know if a 12 has a splitter box tbh)
Just sounds like your specific problem could be linked to sticking cables Mick......'resetting' the TPS would work 1st time, but having to wank the throttle open and closed 6 times to get it to smooth out again might just be a symptom of a cable sticking.....your opening and closing multiple times might have freed it
Might be talking out of my hat (it has been known
check both cables are completely seated in the throttle bodies, that there's no damage to the cable cap thingy or the receptacle it sits in , maybe give it a bloody good squirt out with WD40 or brake cleaner followed by Wd40, and see if both sides move evenly.
Maybe there's some grit or road shit caught up around the cable cam mechanism or a something like that......but as a simple DIY potential fix for free, it's got to be worth ruling out
Thanks for the input (and those subsequent) - I'm in the tail end of BMW warranty (which dealt with the fekked FPC 4 weeks ago) so I'm hitting Cannon tomorrow morning to get the problem into BMW's books.
Annoyingly the bike faffed about a bit again this morning... not as bad but enough to cause slight palpitation. From experience I reckon it helps if you've got an idea of the possible / probable causes - that way you have the chance of a sensible discussion with the technician (might even find that they're an able mechanic who will look beyond the diagnostics hook-up and computer read-out!) - and in any event, if it happens in the future I'd like to have some clue as to where to start poking and prodding... and where to discharge a jumbo sized tin of fish-oil (or WD40 as it says on the tin).
What I really ought to do (once it's out of warranty) is to take all the panels off, work out where all the cables etc go, and properly understand the geography of the beast.
Will report further once I've learned what computer says...
RHS throttle body...
... found to be causing the problem, it is believed - the throttle appears to occasionally stick a couple of mm off the return stop screw. Cannon advise that their dousing the item in WD40 appears not to have had much effect but in any event, they deem it correct to replace the entire part under warranty. No argument from me on that score but it does mean another 60-70 mile return trip to Braintree later in the month - thereafter, hopefully all will be good!
Cannon were unable to see why it would occasionally stick but not always.
... found to be causing the problem, it is believed - the throttle appears to occasionally stick a couple of mm off the return stop screw. Cannon advise that their dousing the item in WD40 appears not to have had much effect but in any event, they deem it correct to replace the entire part under warranty. No argument from me on that score but it does mean another 60-70 mile return trip to Braintree later in the month - thereafter, hopefully all will be good!
Cannon were unable to see why it would occasionally stick but not always.
... found to be causing the problem, it is believed - the throttle appears to occasionally stick a couple of mm off the return stop screw. Cannon advise that their dousing the item in WD40 appears not to have had much effect but in any event, they deem it correct to replace the entire part under warranty. No argument from me on that score but it does mean another 60-70 mile return trip to Braintree later in the month - thereafter, hopefully all will be good!
Cannon were unable to see why it would occasionally stick but not always.
New RHS throttle body fitted - seems to be running sweetly again
It had become a nightmare to ride in traffic, impossible to hold revs constant... but now fixed.
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