R1200GSA upgrade to Ohlins or Wlbers ESA

[Warlord]

Perfect you can send your old esa off to Esarepair.com now and get them ready for when you are fedup with Ohlins...........

Yeah.... might just do that.

I have to say that Ohlins are good, but not a million miles away from a new BMW ESA setup (with the correct spring setup). So I can understand why people stick with ESA.

However, it's highly unlikely Ohlins kit will shit the bed after 14000 miles like BMW repeatedly does.... and just out of Warranty.

... and Ohlins won't suffer from electrical failures, or heat and cavitation damping failure, and can be serviced and maintained outside of specialist Fire Foxes and Unicorn Pixies....

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Yeah.... might just do that.

I have to say that Ohlins are good, but not a million miles away from a new BMW ESA setup (with the correct spring setup). So I can understand why people stick with ESA.

However, it's highly unlikely Ohlins kit will shit the bed after 14000 miles like BMW repeatedly does.... and just out of Warranty.

... and Ohlins won't suffer from electrical failures, or heat and cavitation damping failure, and can be serviced and maintained outside of specialist Fire Foxes and Unicorn Pixies....

I believe as esarepair replace everything on the inside with new Tractive stuff, the only risk after is the electronic side, so probably a nice upgrade, for sure I will be doing mine, next winter.........

 

[r1happy]

I might try your settings as they're not a million miles out.

What weight are you??

82kgs.

 

[Warlord]

I believe as esarepair replace everything on the inside with new Tractive stuff, the only risk after is the electronic side, so probably a nice upgrade, for sure I will be doing mine, next winter.........

Yeah, why not. Give it a go.

 

[r1happy]

Yeah.... might just do that.

I have to say that Ohlins are good, but not a million miles away from a new BMW ESA setup (with the correct spring setup). So I can understand why people stick with ESA.

However, it's highly unlikely Ohlins kit will shit the bed after 14000 miles like BMW repeatedly does.... and just out of Warranty.

... and Ohlins won't suffer from electrical failures, or heat and cavitation damping failure, and can be serviced and maintained outside of specialist Fire Foxes and Unicorn Pixies....

The problem with ESA for me is the damping. There are 3 settings picked by the factory and irrespective of your weight. What damping suits an 80kg person wont suit a 120kg one. I accept the preload adapts to your weight.

However as Warlord found with his TTX shocks the factory setting didn’t suit. He doesn’t have 3 settings, he has a huge choice depending on his mood, riding style, weight, type of roads & speed. What suits one won’t suit another but as he found just a click or two makes a big difference. That’s the reason I chose that route, and they will outlast all the ESA ones, which don’t forget cost £1500 each end to replace, potentially around 14K miles!!

 

[Warlord]

The problem with ESA for me is the damping. There are 3 settings picked by the factory and irrespective of your weight. What damping suits an 80kg person wont suit a 120kg one. I accept the preload adapts to your weight.

However as Warlord found with his TTX shocks the factory setting didn’t suit. He doesn’t have 3 settings, he has a huge choice depending on his mood, riding style, weight, type of roads & speed. What suits one won’t suit another but as he found just a click or two makes a big difference. That’s the reason I chose that route, and they will outlast all the ESA ones, which don’t forget cost £1500 each end to replace, potentially around 14K miles!!

What I like about Ohlins, is the stickers....

Ohlins... yeah baby

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

The problem with ESA for me is the damping. There are 3 settings picked by the factory and irrespective of your weight. What damping suits an 80kg person wont suit a 120kg one. I accept the preload adapts to your weight.

However as Warlord found with his TTX shocks the factory setting didn’t suit. He doesn’t have 3 settings, he has a huge choice depending on his mood, riding style, weight, type of roads & speed. What suits one won’t suit another but as he found just a click or two makes a big difference. That’s the reason I chose that route, and they will outlast all the ESA ones, which don’t forget cost £1500 each end to replace, potentially around 14K miles!!

Yep agree the sachs are pretty good if you are featherweight, and hardly ride 2 up or loaded, then they seem to reach their capacity, but they can be rebuilt totally with good inards for 1500 euros by Tractive.

https://tractiveonline.com/collections/r1200gs

 

[fred_jb]

The problem with ESA for me is the damping. There are 3 settings picked by the factory and irrespective of your weight. What damping suits an 80kg person wont suit a 120kg one. I accept the preload adapts to your weight.

However as Warlord found with his TTX shocks the factory setting didn’t suit. He doesn’t have 3 settings, he has a huge choice depending on his mood, riding style, weight, type of roads & speed. What suits one won’t suit another but as he found just a click or two makes a big difference. That’s the reason I chose that route, and they will outlast all the ESA ones, which don’t forget cost £1500 each end to replace, potentially around 14K miles!!

I think you are confusing the three preload settings on older bikes (the later ones have fully variable auto preload adjustment) with the ESA semi-active automatic damping adjustment. While damping is influenced by the mode setting, ROAD, RAIN, DYNAMIC, etc, with ESA the actual damping settings are continually adjusted, to suit road conditions and the way the bike is being ridden, potentially through the full range of damping settings available, so are not limited to three settings. In comparison non-ESA shocks would have to be manually re-adjusted to suit different conditions, probably requiring much trial and error.

 

[Warlord]

I think you are confusing the three preload settings on older bikes (the later ones have fully variable auto preload adjustment) with the ESA semi-active automatic damping adjustment. While damping is influenced by the mode setting, ROAD, RAIN, DYNAMIC, etc, with ESA the actual damping settings are continually adjusted, to suit road conditions and the way the bike is being ridden, potentially through the full range of damping settings available, so are not limited to three settings......

Which honestly is great.... if it wasn't made of cheese with a 3 week shelf life

 

[fred_jb]

Which honestly is great.... if it wasn't made of cheese with a 3 week shelf life

Yes, although I prefer the semi-active type suspension, particularly as I do a mix of solo and two-up riding, I agree that if it is not reliable and durable then all the advanced technology in the world is not going to help. My first GS gave no problems over 2 years and 11,500 miles, so will have to see how the 1250 goes.

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Yes, although I prefer the semi-active type suspension, particularly as I do a mix of solo and two-up riding, I agree that if it is not reliable and durable then all the advanced technology in the world is not going to help. My first GS gave no problems over 2 years and 11,500 miles, so will have to see how the 1250 goes.

They may have changed the cheese to Gold Spinner on the 1250............

 

[Warlord]

I think if Tractive can replace your existing ESA Shock innards with a more durable setup, alongside a better spring rate suited to your rider weight.... then that would be a very good alternative to Ohlins TTX.

The only downside is the reliance on electronics, stepper motor and switchgear not to eat itself.

There are hidden advanced technology in Ohlins, like heat dispersal and anti-cavitation (nitrogen filled I think)...

.... does Tractive provide anti-cavitation feature in their ESA Rebuild.... if they do.... sounds like a cost effective winner

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

I think if Tractive can replace your existing ESA Shock innards with a more durable setup, alongside a better spring rate suited to your rider weight.... then that would be a very good alternative to Ohlins TTX.

The only downside is the reliance on electronics, stepper motor and switchgear not to eat itself.

There are hidden advanced technology in Ohlins, like heat dispersal and anti-cavitation (nitrogen filled I think)...

.... does Tractive provide anti-cavitation feature in their ESA Rebuild.... if they do.... sounds like a cost effective winner

Not sure about that, but will ask them, video is worth a look even though it is for before 2013 bikes.

 

[Warlord]

Not sure about that, but will ask them....

It's interesting because it appears that Tractive are doing this differently to Wilbers. This information applies to POST 2013 bikes with Water Cooled engines. The pre-2013 bikes had different ESA suspension

Wilbers will take your ESA rear shock and change the Spring and Compression Reservoir (adding compression control) but not actually changing the damper fluid, internals or the stepper motor.

Tractive will take your ESA rear shock and change the Spring, (damper fluid and fit new internals?) and a new stepper motor but not changing the Compression Reservoir so you don't get that adjustability.

It appears BOTH company's are falling short of a complete rebuild? But are doing different things to improve the ESA setup. A combination of both companies upgrades would be good.

I think Wilbers have taken the lowest cost approach.

I think Tractive have taken the best value approach, just falling short of giving too much away.... which would then lead you on to their premium shocks which are rebuilt from ground up not using any original BMW stuff.

The downside to Wilbers is their lack of service involvement with the damper itself..... in some ways you'd be better off sending the unit off to Firefox for a rebuild and a new spring, forget the Wilbers compression reservoir and use Firefox as a low cost refresh

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

It's interesting because it appears that Tractive are doing this differently to Wilbers. This information applies to POST 2013 bikes with Water Cooled engines. The pre-2013 bikes had different ESA suspension

Wilbers will take your ESA rear shock and change the Spring and Compression Reservoir (adding compression control) but not actually changing the damper fluid, internals or the stepper motor.

Tractive will take your ESA rear shock and change the Spring, (damper fluid and fit new internals?) and a new stepper motor but not changing the Compression Reservoir so you don't get that adjustability.

It appears BOTH company's are falling short of a complete rebuild? But are doing different things to improve the ESA setup. A combination of both companies upgrades would be good.

I think Wilbers have taken the lowest cost approach.

I think Tractive have taken the best value approach, just falling short of giving too much away.... which would then lead you on to their premium shocks which are rebuilt from ground up not using any original BMW stuff.

The downside to Wilbers is their lack of service involvement with the damper itself..... in some ways you'd be better off sending the unit off to Firefox for a rebuild and a new spring, forget the Wilbers compression reservoir and use Firefox as a low cost refresh

Must agree Firefox is a good value option when shock fails.

 

[Warlord]

Well, after a few months of fannying around with Sag, Pre-load, Compression, Rebound... driving my wife crazy..... I gave up.

It's very unlike me to give up, but suspension settings are an Alice in Cunterland rabbit hole...

So I took it to a Pro Suspension tuner today 30 minutes away from where I live (in Telford).... £45 and 20 minutes later my bike is fixed.

Should've gone to him on day one

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Well, after a few months of fannying around with Sag, Pre-load, Compression, Rebound... driving my wife crazy..... I gave up.

It's very unlike me to give up, but suspension settings are an Alice in Cunterland rabbit hole...

So I took it to a Pro Suspension tuner today 30 minutes away from where I live (in Telford).... £45 and 20 minutes later my bike is fixed.

Should've gone to him on day one

What was broken, and will one setting be fine for all.

 

[Warlord]

What was broken, and will one setting be fine for all.

Actually not a lot, I was VERY close on my front and rear Rebound and Compression. In fact so close, it was almost perfect* already.

Front Pre-Load was also spot on. So at least I got some things right.

Where I was a mile out, was on rear Pre-Load. I had it cranked up way too much.

Once he'd adjusted it to ZERO... no pre-load at all, the bike started behaving better.

But the biggest win of the day, was to verify that my settings were fairly good, and to STOP TWEAKING IT.... Just enjoy it now.

He also explained that Compression is what can be adjusted now on it's own, just to set a preference for 'Hard' or 'Soft' feeling.

£45 was worth it to me, just to clarify a couple of things and put me back on the straight.

* Perfect = His professional opinion

 

[Warlord]

..... and will one setting be fine for all.

Well what he did today for me at 90kg.....

Rear Pre-Load = ZERO
Front Pre-Load = Factory Set and left unchanged

>>> This meant the Sag was perfect

Front Compression = 14 Clicks
Front Rebound = 11 Clicks

Rear Compression = 13 Clicks
Rear Rebound = 14 Clicks

So I'll just get some riding in now and see how that pans out.....

 

[Deleted account 191119001]

Well what he did today for me at 90kg.....

Rear Pre-Load = ZERO
Front Pre-Load = Factory Set and left unchanged

>>> This meant the Sag was perfect

Front Compression = 14 Clicks
Front Rebound = 11 Clicks

Rear Compression = 13 Clicks
Rear Rebound = 14 Clicks

So I'll just get some riding in now and see how that pans out.....

Will make some interesting reading, interesting to see how it behaves at speed or more loaded up.