recall of handguards threads merged

[st247]

How I can be sure? Because I have owned two ABS-bikes from BMW (I was beginner, not retired, and believed in nanny stuff). Then I owned a BMW bike with perfect regular brakes. And then I started to realize that I really don't need no ABS at all and all my other bikes then didn't have ABS. I crashed in mid December on 1.500 meters in the black forest when I had to brake on ice. I fell in milliseconds.

And no handguards, of course (I take responsibility).

Sorry, not convinced. I've owned and ridden mostly non ABS bikes (on road, track and off road), and could lock and release the front brakes without crashing. However, regardless of how good a rider you are theres still the possibility of a mistake (ask Jorge Lorenzo). If the ABS stops you hitting the tarmac once then its done its job. So better without it, i dont think so, just personal choice.

 

[BBB61]

Nemizis is not very objective when it comes to BMW. He must be getting desperate if the best he can come up with is an "issue" relating to the handguards

 

[Owen Snell]

Sorry, not convinced. I've owned and ridden mostly non ABS bikes (on road, track and off road), and could lock and release the front brakes without crashing. However, regardless of how good a rider you are theres still the possibility of a mistake (ask Jorge Lorenzo). If the ABS stops you hitting the tarmac once then its done its job. So better without it, i dont think so, just personal choice.

+1 to this. I too have locked up before on a greasy surface and not crashed, but I would not like to guarantee that I could get away with it every time, or that I could stop the bike in the shortest possible distance in the event of an emergency stop in poor conditions. ABS is not there to be relied on at all times, just a backup that I prefer to have if available.

 

[nemezis]

..., no stickers on my handguards ...

stickers and supplement to the manual come by mail! you have to put the stickers in the handguards and you have to put the supplement in the manual. before every ride you need to push the levers forward to check if they contact the cross. then you may ride...



service done?!

- new braking pipe?
- new EWS?
- new software?

 

[nemezis]

this is how it looks like (stickers etc.)

http://media.de.indymedia.org/media/2008/06//220080.pdf

 

[Dave Barrett]

Just got the bike back for servicing from a German dealer, no stickers on my handguards , as for ABS, better to have it and never use it, than need it

Hi Ned,

My stickers came in the post on Saturday and you're welcome to have them if you want them, since I certainly won't be sticking them on my bike. As several people have already stated, it's about common sense and taking responsibility. When I first got my bike, I noticed that one of the handguards wasn't properly aligned, so adjusted it until it pleased my sense of perfectionism. Job done.

The only reason BMW are issuing stickers via a customer letter (NOTE: NOT A RECALL!) is to ensure that idiots who can't fathom out that their brake/clutch levers are not returning.

I wonder where it'll stop. If Nemezis crashes some time in the future due to an underinflated tyre, then I'm sure he'll campaign for BMW to recall all bikes and have their tyre pressures checked, then "urge" then to change the design of the valves besause they're dangerous

 

[babu]

... to ensure that idiots who can't fathom out that their brake/clutch levers are not returning.

A colleague bought a VFR. After a summer of riding he asked me if I could just have a quick look at it; there was this strange noise... Glad to be of help I looked at it and found a very dry chain with at least one joint half broken. His response: "What? I'm supposed to lubricate that?". This is why BMW has to send those letters. This; combined with the sad fact that our society has been infected with lawyers.
--
babu

 

[karnevil]

A colleague bought a VFR. After a summer of riding he asked me if I could just have a quick look at it; there was this strange noise... Glad to be of help I looked at it and found a very dry chain with at least one joint half broken. His response: "What? I'm supposed to lubricate that?". This is why BMW has to send those letters. This; combined with the sad fact that our society has been infected with lawyers.
--
babu

A few years back I did the IAM bike course on about the second or third week one of the pupils turned up(On a BMW as it happens) with a flat FRONT tyre.He did not know till the rest of the group told him!!!

My hand guards move,no big deal,i can twist em back while i ride no worries.Years ago i had a Yamaha DT the hand guards did the same on that no worries either.

My mirrors move too just adjust em while i ride,no big deal,no worries.

One way to stop the guards catching the levers would be to shorten the levers say to the sacrifice point,buy ya may fail an MOT test,no big deal,no worries.........

No worries

 

[Keith Chapman]

News is that the recall started in Germany these days. But they do not fit new handguards on the affected models, they are going the cheap way like they did on the flawed power assisted brakes.

1. You get a supplement to the manual describing how to use the handguard correctly and a warning always to check the position
2. You get a sticker. This sticker has to be put in the handguards. The sticker does show a cross. That's how you can check the correct position of the handguards, the lever has to touch the cross if you press the to the handguards.

This is no good news but that's how it is. They have done what they had to do to prevent a liability-disaster. At least one serious accident is documented in Germany, and in addition several instances where the riders were not injured. Advrider does show some cases, too.

......

 

[nemezis]

The only reason BMW are issuing stickers via a customer letter (NOTE: NOT A RECALL!)

You are wrong, it is definitly a recall. It's written there in the letter:

http://media.de.indymedia.org/media/2008/06//220080.pdf

"Maßnahme gemäß § 35 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 Straßenverkehrsgesetz (StVG)"

Just read the Words "Maßnahme" and the law StVG. It's definitly a recall. And this is the same procedure like the recal of the power assisted brakes when they sent out a 4-pages supplement to the manual.

If they cannot repair a system (like the power assisted brakes), the reapair the manual with warning. But this is also a recall and both the letter and the law to name it recall.

In addition the adresses of the affected riders got BMW from the German safety organisation KBA (similar to VOSA, UK). This is prohibited by law except in one single case: If it is a recall.

Get your facts straight: It is a recall.

 

[deaninkl]

A colleague bought a VFR. After a summer of riding he asked me if I could just have a quick look at it; there was this strange noise... Glad to be of help I looked at it and found a very dry chain with at least one joint half broken. His response: "What? I'm supposed to lubricate that?". This is why BMW has to send those letters. This; combined with the sad fact that our society has been infected with lawyers.
--
babu

I'm one of them boring old farts (my childrens words not mine..I think I'm funny..) that was brought up not having to much dosh and therefore servicing my own bikes was normal as it was with most of my friends in the seventies, most things we learned to do ourselves or had a mate that could help. Now I can afford to send my bike back to BMW, which I will do while its under warranty, but then i will do most of it myself. I check my bike whenever I clean it, about once a week. I find while cleaning it I get to see and check most things, and have always used this as a form of getting to know yer bike.

When I read some of the posts on this site it is clear there are many novices riding 1200 cc bikes (can you imagine a novice on a Z1 in 1976... it didn't happen) so what BMW are doing is covering there arse (but only just) from the idiots that will crash because they get on their bike put in the key and the computer tells you its checking... and off they go, never having looked at anything. I do it all the time in my car... I don't bother to check anymore, and with four wheels and a metal frame all around me I feel safe.

Bike are different and there are many, many new bikers out there who did not ride GT 250's, CB 250's RD's, KH's.. etc. etc. and now they are on 1200's 3 months after passing there test. They assume Hern BMW has designed their bike with the precision and expertise we expect from BMW, nobody mentioned the fact that its built in East Germany with assebly line mentality.

So my fellow riders, maybe the experienced riders amongst us should be drumming into our new friends on two wheels what we learned 20 or 30 years ago. Check you bike yorself every couple of weeks, it takes 5-10 minutes not more and you will also get to know your bike. BMW safety stickers are not going to help you.

there..went on a bit din I... Ash tell em what it was like...!

 

[Sgt Bilco]

I'm one of them boring old farts (my childrens words not mine..I think I'm funny..) that was brought up not having to much dosh and therefore servicing my own bikes was normal as it was with most of my friends in the seventies, most things we learned to do ourselves or had a mate that could help. Now I can afford to send my bike back to BMW, which I will do while its under warranty, but then i will do most of it myself. I check my bike whenever I clean it, about once a week. I find while cleaning it I get to see and check most things, and have always used this as a form of getting to know yer bike.

When I read some of the posts on this site it is clear there are many novices riding 1200 cc bikes (can you imagine a novice on a Z1 in 1976... it didn't happen) so what BMW are doing is covering there arse (but only just) from the idiots that will crash because they get on their bike put in the key and the computer tells you its checking... and off they go, never having looked at anything. I do it all the time in my car... I don't bother to check anymore, and with four wheels and a metal frame all around me I feel safe.

Bike are different and there are many, many new bikers out there who did not ride GT 250's, CB 250's RD's, KH's.. etc. etc. and now they are on 1200's 3 months after passing there test. They assume Hern BMW has designed their bike with the precision and expertise we expect from BMW, nobody mentioned the fact that its built in East Germany with assebly line mentality.

So my fellow riders, maybe the experienced riders amongst us should be drumming into our new friends on two wheels what we learned 20 or 30 years ago. Check you bike yorself every couple of weeks, it takes 5-10 minutes not more and you will also get to know your bike. BMW safety stickers are not going to help you.

there..went on a bit din I... Ash tell em what it was like...!

 

[cookie]

well said*

I'm one of them boring old farts (my childrens words not mine..I think I'm funny..) that was brought up not having to much dosh and therefore servicing my own bikes was normal as it was with most of my friends in the seventies, most things we learned to do ourselves or had a mate that could help. Now I can afford to send my bike back to BMW, which I will do while its under warranty, but then i will do most of it myself. I check my bike whenever I clean it, about once a week. I find while cleaning it I get to see and check most things, and have always used this as a form of getting to know yer bike.

When I read some of the posts on this site it is clear there are many novices riding 1200 cc bikes (can you imagine a novice on a Z1 in 1976... it didn't happen) so what BMW are doing is covering there arse (but only just) from the idiots that will crash because they get on their bike put in the key and the computer tells you its checking... and off they go, never having looked at anything. I do it all the time in my car... I don't bother to check anymore, and with four wheels and a metal frame all around me I feel safe.

Bike are different and there are many, many new bikers out there who did not ride GT 250's, CB 250's RD's, KH's.. etc. etc. and now they are on 1200's 3 months after passing there test. They assume Hern BMW has designed their bike with the precision and expertise we expect from BMW, nobody mentioned the fact that its built in East Germany with assebly line mentality.

So my fellow riders, maybe the experienced riders amongst us should be drumming into our new friends on two wheels what we learned 20 or 30 years ago. Check you bike yorself every couple of weeks, it takes 5-10 minutes not more and you will also get to know your bike. BMW safety stickers are not going to help you.

there..went on a bit din I... Ash tell em what it was like...!

*except for the cleaning bit. i find things less likely to fall off/go wrong on modern bikes than old 70s clutter. i find regular checks something of a waste of time these days.

 

[Dave Barrett]

You are wrong, it is definitly a recall. It's written there in the letter:

http://media.de.indymedia.org/media/2008/06//220080.pdf

"Maßnahme gemäß § 35 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 Straßenverkehrsgesetz (StVG)"

Just read the Words "Maßnahme" and the law StVG. It's definitly a recall. And this is the same procedure like the recal of the power assisted brakes when they sent out a 4-pages supplement to the manual.

If they cannot repair a system (like the power assisted brakes), the reapair the manual with warning. But this is also a recall and both the letter and the law to name it recall.

In addition the adresses of the affected riders got BMW from the German safety organisation KBA (similar to VOSA, UK). This is prohibited by law except in one single case: If it is a recall.

Get your facts straight: It is a recall.

Nemezis,

I suggest YOU get your facts straight before posting your normal doom and gloom crap.

Motor and Motorcycle Manufactures have 4 levels to rectify potentially faults/faulty vehicles that are in the market as follows:

Level 1: Port/Dealer Modification. Vehicles that have left the factory are modified in a holding area at a port/logistics area, or if at a dealer already, are modified there.

Level 2: First Service Opportunity. Dealers are informed of the potentially affected VIN range. Vehicles are modified when brought to a dealer for service/inspection.

Level 3: Customer Letter. Customers are written to informing them that the vehicle may a have a potential problem, but they do not have to return the vehicle to a dealer. (Applies in the handguard case)

Level 4: Recall. Potentially affected customers are written to, informing them to bring their vehicle to a dealer for repair. These cases are logged and tracked by both KBA or equivalent and the manufacturer.

Recall = Rückruf. The customer letter does not state that the bike has to go back to a BMW dealer or further work.

 

[nemezis]

Recall = Rückruf. The customer letter does not state that the bike has to go back to a BMW dealer or further work.

Yes, it's all very sad. They do not repair the handguards but do it call a recall.

The law StVG is mentioned in the customer letter: § 35 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 Straßenverkehrsgesetz (StVG). Which clearly states that this "action" is about a recall.

Remember the recall of integral-brakes. It was a recall when they did sent 260.000 customers worldwide a 4-pages manual with warnings and explanations about the flawed brakes. They were unable to repair the flawed brakes and hat to repair the manual instead.

I do know that this is not funny at all. But that's how BMW is dealing with such cases in the present and in the past. It is definitly, like it or not, a recall!

 

[Dave Barrett]

Nemezis,

wie schon oben geschrieben, habe ich auch so ein Brief bekommen. Nirgendwo steht der Begriff "Rückruf" darin. Nach meines Wissens ist der Begriff "Maßnahme" als "Action" oder "Countermeasure" Übersetzbar, und nicht als "Recall".

 

[Dave Barrett]

......

You're right, I got hooked line and sinker there....

 

[nemezis]

wie schon oben geschrieben, habe ich auch so ein Brief bekommen. Nirgendwo steht der Begriff "Rückruf" darin. Nach meines Wissens ist der Begriff "Maßnahme" als "Action" oder "Countermeasure" Übersetzbar, und nicht als "Recall".

Ich habe den Brief vor mir liegen, weil ich ihn bekommen habe! Lies genau, es wird das StVG angeführt: § 35 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 Straßenverkehrsgesetz (StVG)

http://www.bundesrecht.juris.de/stvg/__35.html

2) Die nach § 33 Abs. 1 gespeicherten Fahrzeugdaten und Halterdaten dürfen, wenn dies für die Zwecke nach § 32 Abs. 2 jeweils erforderlich ist,

1.
an Inhaber von Betriebserlaubnissen für Fahrzeuge oder an Fahrzeughersteller für Rückrufmaßnahmen zur Beseitigung von erheblichen Mängeln für die Verkehrssicherheit

Therefore it is strictly a recall in Germany. A recall to avert a significantly danger for the safety on the streets.

 

[Der Lustenauer]

Ich habe den Brief vor mir liegen, weil ich ihn bekommen habe! Lies genau, es wird das StVG angeführt: § 35 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 Straßenverkehrsgesetz (StVG)

http://www.bundesrecht.juris.de/stvg/__35.html



Therefore it is strictly a recall in Germany. A recall to avert a significantly danger for the safety on the streets.

In this thread
http://www.gs-forum.eu/showthread.php?t=21373
on the German GS site most German riders just laugh about the letter they got.
Seems to me that it is no recall at all.

 

[Slowdown]

Recall or not it made me check mine and the left one's loose!