Recommendations request - travel to north Italy and return

GreyHairedWombat

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My wife and I plan to travel down to Verona and Lake Como then return over approx 2 weeks.

Current plan is to ride 5-6 hours riding time each day (due to age related stuff need to stop every 1.5-2 hrs). Plan 2 days ride, then stop 2 nights to take in areas of interest. Maybe motorway/fast roads on day 1 and day 14. We've already done Belgium and the Ardennes so new areas we would like to enjoy are the black forest/Bavaria (maybe also Lake Konstanz), Austrian or Italian dolomites, Lake Como and/or Locarno, maybe back via the Vosges

I plan to review some of stuff posted by Wapping including tour rides which I could incorporate into the route
  1. After an early Eurotunnel crossing on day 1 will travel through Belgium and stop maybe in Luxemburg. Has anyone stopped for the night in Vianden? Stopped to tour the castle last year and thought town looked nice
  2. Is it worth make a detour to take in Neuschwanstein Castle?
  3. How does southern Bavaria, Austria and Italian Dolomites compare? If time limited would you advise which you would say are a must?
If you have travelled similar routes are there any stand out hotels, etc you would recommend?

Many thanks,

Richard
 
1. Vianden is a very popular stop, with a good selection of hotels, restaurants and a fuel station. In part it’s on a pretty steep hill, if that is an issue. Alternatives would be, Clervaux (if you want to be in Luxembourg) or Körperich, Germany just across the border from Vianden, see post #44 and a bit onwards in this thread https://www.ukgser.com/community/threads/eifel…-long-weekend.354245/page-3

That though is not an exclusive list of alternatives. The southern end of Belgium / north and eastern side of Luxembourg and much of that narrow strip of the west of Germany is littered with hotels. Take your pick.

2. Why not, if you have time. It’s up to you.

3. The Dolomites are not in the Alps per-se and are very different in shape and size. The area, though still large, is very compact in comparison to the full Alps range. Me? I prefer the Dolomites but everyone will have their favourites. The best authority on the Alps is Rasher. Me? I’d get a guide book and look on the internet to decide.

Now let’s look at your holiday plans….

After an early Eurotunnel crossing on day 1 …..travel down to Verona and Lake Como then return over approx 2 weeks….Current plan is to ride 5-6 hours riding time each day (due to age related stuff need to stop every 1.5-2 hrs). Plan 2 days ride, then stop 2 nights to take in areas of interest. Maybe motorway/fast roads on day 1 and day 14.

Before you start listing all your ‘Must do’ sights, sites and destinations, work out what the main purpose of your holiday is. Verona / Lake Como seems to be the target destinations. Can you give us your two weeks broken down a bit better, before bods decide to send you hurtling around the Alps, the Black Forest and then the Dolomites. For example, how far for you in miles, is ‘Five to six hours riding’?

Why do I ask? Calais to Lake Como is about 650 miles direct, fastest (motorway) route. If your idea of a long day with stops is 200 miles, that is three and a bit days. It’s the same on the way back, so call it a bit under seven days. You have reserved 14 days, so you are left with a bit over seven days. Let’s say, three days on Lake Como (your main holiday destination) leaves you four days to lob in somewhere. Spread them either side of the from and back to Calais or mix them into Lake Como.

Calais to Verona is (obviously) further at about 800 miles direct, fastest motorway route. Based on the 200 miles a day maths, that is four days or eight days in total for the round trip Calais to Verona to Calais. 14 days less eight days is six days, parts of which would be taken up visiting Verona and / or Lake Como.

Now factor in that you plan to only do motorway / fast roads on day one and day 14. I am not at all sure what you have in mind for roads? Are you planning on French D type roads (ie avoiding all motorways and fast national roads) for all the other days? Then factor in that you plan on riding for two days, then stopping for one additional night at the end of every second day. For example….

Day one leave the Chunnel….. ride for say, 200 miles down the motorway…. Stop for one night

Day two….. ride on non-mototoway / non-fast roads for 200 miles…. Stop for two nights

Day three….. Don’t ride any further forward, as you want to spend two nights there

Day four…. Set off again on non-mototoway / non-fast roads for 200 miles…. Stop for the night

You have now ridden 600 miles of which only one third was on motorways / fast roads. In theory at least, you are now 50 miles short the north end of Lake Como and still well short of Verona.

Giving us some more news will make everyone’s life easier when it comes to creating your holiday.

Richard

:beerjug:

PS If possible I’d try to cross over to France the evening before day one. See several posts on why.
 
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Loads of hotels all down the black forest area -I've stayed in Schilltach (gorgeous wee town) just east a bit of the B500 and NE of Titisee (it's very popular too).
Austria and Italian Dolomites are gorgeous - again hotels are very plentiful.
I've stayed in a few in Arabba (as have many on here) and the Passo Pordoi hotel (great food and wine).
In southern Bavaria there's Garmish - Partenkirchen (very nice but not cheap).

Europe is your oyster sir.
 
You can reach the Nord Vosges or Saarbrucken in under 6 hours from the Tunnel. Then onwards to Kempten. Hop over the Timmelsjoch to Lake Garda and onward to Verona. Return via Como then up to ride past St Moritz, Zernez and Landeck. This ride from Como to Landeck is one of my favourites. Over the Silvretta Pass and up to Lake Constance western side. Over to Rhine Falls and cross into the Black Forest.

Let me know if you want some hotel recommendation in some of these places.
 
You can reach the Nord Vosges or Saarbrucken in under 6 hours from the Tunnel. Then onwards to Kempten. Hop over the Timmelsjoch to Lake Garda and onward to Verona. Return via Como then up to ride past St Moritz, Zernez and Landeck. This ride from Como to Landeck is one of my favourites. Over the Silvretta Pass and up to Lake Constance western side. Over to Rhine Falls and cross into the Black Forest.

Let me know if you want some hotel recommendation in some of these places.
Thank you Wessie. This sounds brilliant! Some hotel suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
 
Hotels:
Saarbrucken: Mercure Hotel next to Congress Hall, underground parking, several eateries across the bridge
Haguenau Nord Vosges: Hotel Les Pins - great restaurant, garage parking
Kempten Bavaria: Hotel Peterhof, underground parking, restaurant in Brauerei nearby
Landeck: Hotel Enzian, private parking - popular "biker" hotel
Malcesine Lake Garda: Hotel Benacus, gated parking
Black Forest, Buhlertal in Baden wine region: Hotel Gasthaus Adler, parking undercover
Vosges in Hohrod near Munster, Alsace, Hôtel Restaurant Panorama - Logis hotel with great restaurant
 
Whilst we wait for your news, these three routes are not bad (direction wise) and sort of match with your basic plan. They do though go nowhere near the Dolomites.

All I did was put Calais and a town at the north end of Lake Como, asking ViaMichelin to give me a non-motorway route.

IMG_4183.jpeg
 
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I had a quick look at what Simon Weir charges to design bespoke tours for bods. It is about £35 for each day planned, I understand that he does a pretty good job of it. 14 days at £35 (hallway way between his two numbers) a day is….. um…… er….. a smidge under £500. You’d obviously save a bit if you don’t want Weir to plan anything on ‘rest days’ or plan to get yourself within say 200 miles of Calais on the outward and return legs.

Come on, you have had several holidays planned for you by UKGSer. You know how to do it, based on experience. Have a go, rather than being told every hotel, road and direction between Calais and Verona and back, via Lake Como. Try planning it out and coming back to us with your ideas.

:beerjug:

Richard


PS To quote Weir’s website:

Bespoke tours​


Always wanted to visit the Alps but not sure where to stay? Want to poke around the Picos de Europa or the Pyrenees but uncertain which roads are good?

Whether you're intrigued by Italy or fascinated by France, I will plan the perfect trip, tailor-made to your tastes – including recommendations for where to stop for lunch and coffee, where to stay and what to see - even down to fuel stops planned to suit your bike's tank range. Full bespoke tours are priced by day at £30-40 per day, depending on the complexity of your requirements.
 
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. Return via Como then up to ride past St Moritz, Zernez and Landeck. This ride from Como to Landeck is one of my favourites. Over the Silvretta Pass and up to Lake Constance western side.

.
I did this only a couple of weeks ago and would echo Wessie’s recommendation. Have some cash with you, there are toll roads (about 14 euros if I recall). Utterly brilliant ride.
 
I did this only a couple of weeks ago and would echo Wessie’s recommendation. Have some cash with you, there are toll roads (about 14 euros if I recall). Utterly brilliant ride.

That's the last bit over the Silvretta in Austria isn't it? I don't remember tolls on the roads across Switzerland.

Just for a bit of context, from Como, you ride up to the Maloja Pass watershed where rain splits, some going south & west into the Italian lakes and the rest going north or east and joining the source of the River Inn in a series of lakes. You then ride through the undulating & twisty River Inn valley all the way to Landeck.
 
As I am sitting around with a ruptured Achilles, I asked Kurviger to give me:

Calais to Metz by motorway

Metz to Arabba (Dolomites) by non-motorway but ‘direct’ roads

Arabba to Verona by non-motorway but ‘direct’ roads

Verona to Lake Como by non-motorway but ‘direct’ roads

Lake Como to Troyes by non-motorway but ‘direct’ roads

Troyes to Calais by motortway

IMG_4184.jpeg


That is 1670 miles.

14 days is 120 miles a day, which is OK. But the OP does not have 14 days, riding every day. If we allow two full days in Verona and two full days on Lake Como, that is 10 days. Every third day he wants to have off, so he loses three days out of the 10 travelling days, leaving seven days. That gives 240 miles a day. That’s OK to most, but is it OK to the OP?

Link to Kurviger

Anyway, he now has a reminder as to how to go about the basics of creating jaunts. Over to him for a response.
 
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Another great thread with brilliant contributions from Wessie, Wapping and Khulu. :okay Thanks

It is interesting to watch how bods’ plans sometimes change when the time over distance calculation is made.

The thread also shows how difficult it can be to create holidays or other people, especially over long distances when you don’t know them or key bits of information are missing.

Just as. bit of fun, I altered the Kurviger algorithm, mindful that the OP does not want to ride motorways or even ‘fast roads’ (whatever they are) other than on day one and day 14.

IMG_4188.jpg

Unsurprisingly, the total distance grew. It’ll be (to some degree or another) slower too. Though I guess some proportion of his time will be lost in the regular stops.

UPDATED KURVIGER
 
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What happens when you alter the Kurviger algorithm to be ‘very twisty’. I left the first and last sections as motorway, as that is what the OP suggested he favoured.

IMG_4189.jpg

Naturally enough, the broad direction of travel doesn’t alter, simply as the individual target towns hasn’t changed. There are after all, only so many ways yiu can go from A to B to C to D, irrespective of the type of road. Naturally enough, the time taken increases, too.

MOST CURVEY VERSION
 
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Hi All, Sorry not been in touch as have been away in the Yorkshire Dales celebrating our 40th anniversary ( her mother only gave us 6 months!) so just catching up with your advice and helpful suggestions. You have given us food for thought so now back into planning mode. I will get back to you tomorrow with any requests for further clarification.
 
Hi Richard, coincidence but I set off 3rd Aug and doing pretty much the same over 14 days. Taking in Lake Como, Dolomites, Venice, Austria and back. All routes done and happy to share with you if you think it may help.
 
Hi Richard, coincidence but I set off 3rd Aug and doing pretty much the same over 14 days. Taking in Lake Como, Dolomites, Venice, Austria and back. All routes done and happy to share with you if you think it may help.

Ping them up here, please. I’m sure they’ll interest others, too.
 
Hi Richard, coincidence but I set off 3rd Aug and doing pretty much the same over 14 days. Taking in Lake Como, Dolomites, Venice, Austria and back. All routes done and happy to share with you if you think it may help.
Morning WD
hope you don’t mind if I jump in here. We also did Venice last year on the bike.
However, we stayed in Castello di godego ( near Bassano del grappa ) .
then we went into Venice by train, a 50 minute journey on clean, quiet trains which cost us about 10 euros return each.
the hotel was very good but not expensive and was a short walk from the station.


the hotel was on a major junction but it wasn’t a problem due to the double glazing.
It had underground parking for the bike, good rooms and good food.
I would really recommend it as a base to go into Venice as it’s a lot cheaper than Venetian hotels.
 
Ping them up here, please. I’m sure they’ll interest others, too.
Hi Richard, coincidence but I set off 3rd Aug and doing pretty much the same over 14 days. Taking in Lake Como, Dolomites, Venice, Austria and back. All routes done and happy to share with you if you think it may help.
Hi Wonkey donkey,
If you are still OK to share this would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Richard
 
Loads of hotels all down the black forest area -I've stayed in Schilltach (gorgeous wee town) just east a bit of the B500 and NE of Titisee (it's very popular too).
Austria and Italian Dolomites are gorgeous - again hotels are very plentiful.
I've stayed in a few in Arabba (as have many on here) and the Passo Pordoi hotel (great food and wine).
In southern Bavaria there's Garmish - Partenkirchen (very nice but not cheap).

Europe is your oyster sir.
Good morning Sir,
A couple of questions if I may. Is there good reason to base yourself in Arabba if visiting the Dolomites? Plan to stay 2 nights so can see the local area. Worried if high up may get some snow? Have you ever considered the Selva / Ortisei area? Or even Bolzano?
Incidentally when I checked out the Passo Pordoi Hotel using Booking.com is came up as vegetarian
Thanks,
Richard
 


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