I git one for about £160 if i recall
i'll have a dig through my paperwork and see if i can find it
It was a reman unit
solved my poor starting instantly -
Reluctant starter
- Thread starter Ibex
- Start date
I git one for about £160 if i recall
i'll have a dig through my paperwork and see if i can find it
It was a reman unit
solved my poor starting instantly -
Which is just the sort of thing that nobody tells you when you are considering the purchase of a Lithium battery! Useful information though Orbit, thank you.
Continuing in the search for relevant data, I checked the battery voltage this morning to find it had increased to 13.26, so up from the 13.15 it registered the night before, which possibly eliminates any suggestion of a (electrical) leak somewhere? I went to fire it up and it took three attempts. Just very reluctant to turn the motor. Once it started the voltage across the battery increased steadily to about 14.5 over a couple on minutes, so the alternator is working, and it would probably have continued to rise had I left it. Instead I switched it off and noted the battery now reads 13.35v.
The temperature on the display was 7.5 degrees, so warmer than of late, but not tropical - it is only Lancashire. I am hoping to take it to Genoa in May, and although it will be warmer, it will not be going unless I can sort this problem!
Continuing in the search for relevant data, I checked the battery voltage this morning to find it had increased to 13.26, so up from the 13.15 it registered the night before, which possibly eliminates any suggestion of a (electrical) leak somewhere? I went to fire it up and it took three attempts. Just very reluctant to turn the motor. Once it started the voltage across the battery increased steadily to about 14.5 over a couple on minutes, so the alternator is working, and it would probably have continued to rise had I left it. Instead I switched it off and noted the battery now reads 13.35v.
The temperature on the display was 7.5 degrees, so warmer than of late, but not tropical - it is only Lancashire. I am hoping to take it to Genoa in May, and although it will be warmer, it will not be going unless I can sort this problem!
Sorry chaps - only just realised that there was a Pg 2 to responses. Oops.
All good comments and thank you for them. I did swap out the starter at the start of this thread with one from Motorworks, but the symptoms were the same so I sent it back. I dont think it was a recon though, most likely just a used one, but what are the chances of identical fault?
I think I will now do the suggested jump leads test - thus eliminating the Li battery from the situation. My Toyota Landcruiser has two nice new big batteries... If that doesn't work, then I'll buy a recon starter as suggested.
Thank you as ever and I will let you know.
All good comments and thank you for them. I did swap out the starter at the start of this thread with one from Motorworks, but the symptoms were the same so I sent it back. I dont think it was a recon though, most likely just a used one, but what are the chances of identical fault?
I think I will now do the suggested jump leads test - thus eliminating the Li battery from the situation. My Toyota Landcruiser has two nice new big batteries... If that doesn't work, then I'll buy a recon starter as suggested.
Thank you as ever and I will let you know.
a Known good charged 12V battery will be fine (Watch your Polarity !!! Positives connect first and remove last !)
ALSO try the earth clamp on the exhaust if it is nice and shiny That is a great connection to the engine and can isolate a bar frame earth connection
A tad warm once running
BUT a great way to test the theory 
Which is basically what you are doing Negating faulty items or links by substituting known good quantities
ALSO try the earth clamp on the exhaust if it is nice and shiny That is a great connection to the engine and can isolate a bar frame earth connection
A tad warm once running
BUT a great way to test the theory Which is basically what you are doing Negating faulty items or links by substituting known good quantities
Latest update; Got the jump leads connected yesterday and the motor started promptly and without hesitation. I then went out for a couple of hours. Mid way I checked the battery which showed 13.6v a few minutes after switching off. Started perfectly to come home and then a brisk 40 minutes down the motorway to ensure no excuses regarding properly charged.
I went out this morning and the battery was reading 13.3 volts and the temp was 6.5 degrees. First press of the button resulted in the usual hesitation between compression strokes and failed attempt (solenoid tripped out?) Second attempt sounded better but another failure, third attempt saw no starter hesitation and the motor fired up. I put the voltmeter back whilst the engine was running and the battery was showing 14.5v.
So - the jump lead test should have convinced me the battery was the culprit - but I'm left wondering whether this is just a characteristic of Lithium batteries? I'm not keen to bin it having spent a lot of money to buy it. I guess we have isolated the problem as being the battery - so the question is how long am I prepared to put up with this "characteristic" and in particular would I want to set off on a trip to Italy with it? I shall put a few miles on it during the coming weeks and see how ity performs.
Thank you all for help and advice
I went out this morning and the battery was reading 13.3 volts and the temp was 6.5 degrees. First press of the button resulted in the usual hesitation between compression strokes and failed attempt (solenoid tripped out?) Second attempt sounded better but another failure, third attempt saw no starter hesitation and the motor fired up. I put the voltmeter back whilst the engine was running and the battery was showing 14.5v.
So - the jump lead test should have convinced me the battery was the culprit - but I'm left wondering whether this is just a characteristic of Lithium batteries? I'm not keen to bin it having spent a lot of money to buy it. I guess we have isolated the problem as being the battery - so the question is how long am I prepared to put up with this "characteristic" and in particular would I want to set off on a trip to Italy with it? I shall put a few miles on it during the coming weeks and see how ity performs.
Thank you all for help and advice
Which brand and spec lithium battery is it? Just curious.
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
I admire your tenancity in proving that the battery is the problem/is not the problem
I seem to remember reading a similar thread on which The Steptoe commented, something to the effect that most of these earlier starter motors are the source of all problems as they wear out of true and so the rotor "binds" on the stator, drawing down the amps but not turning properly and so not starting the engine. His only cure is a new starter motor.
A PM to him will elicite the accurate response.
This may help you with your lithium battery
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Jump leads to a decent battery ??
My thought is to JUNK the Li battery and fit a Motobatt or Odyssey AGM type battery
2 reasons Li batteries are a trend
They are expensive
They can be fine or they can be Schite!!
Fit a decent AGM battery and never have to tell the fire brigade not to use water on your bike if it goes on fire!!
Back on the case after leaving the bike for a few days in a cold garage. Battery measured 13.36 this morning before starting attempt.
Thank you for all of your comments. If I take them in order, Slipperyeel asked about the battery - it's an EXIDE ELTX14H 48Wh, 240A, 12v.
Bem raised the starter problem - which I find an increasingly attractive solution - even though I swapped it out last year, for another used one, and it made no difference to starting performance.
The Santa video was very good, so much so that that was why I went to the garage this morning with such determination! It was cold but battery was reading 13.36v. I hit the starter and got the expected, semi flat battery response - only just turning it over. I turned it off and waited 30 seconds, which is a very long time to stand in a cold garage watching a second hand move (yes - I'm really that old!) When I tried it again - it worked! The performance was acceptable for a bike left for a few days in a cold garage at this time of the year - no real hesitation between compression strokes. So is that it? Not really convinced as I can recall last summer when I had to put up with the full hesitation start even after my customary coffee at a local watering hole, 50 miles from home. Surely the thing should have warmed up by that time? You surely can't be expected to give it 30 seconds between attempts even when its mid ride on a summer day?
Finally, Dr Farkhoff advocated binning the battery in favour of traditional leadAcid/AGM from somebody like Motobatt. The last Motobatt I had managed to split its case for no apparent reason, top to bottom on the narrow end, just out of warranty and left an acid stain down one of the frame tubes. So not a Motobatt fan. Having said that I am coming to the conclusion that this particular Lithium battery was probably a mistake...
Thank you for all of your comments. If I take them in order, Slipperyeel asked about the battery - it's an EXIDE ELTX14H 48Wh, 240A, 12v.
Bem raised the starter problem - which I find an increasingly attractive solution - even though I swapped it out last year, for another used one, and it made no difference to starting performance.
The Santa video was very good, so much so that that was why I went to the garage this morning with such determination! It was cold but battery was reading 13.36v. I hit the starter and got the expected, semi flat battery response - only just turning it over. I turned it off and waited 30 seconds, which is a very long time to stand in a cold garage watching a second hand move (yes - I'm really that old!) When I tried it again - it worked! The performance was acceptable for a bike left for a few days in a cold garage at this time of the year - no real hesitation between compression strokes. So is that it? Not really convinced as I can recall last summer when I had to put up with the full hesitation start even after my customary coffee at a local watering hole, 50 miles from home. Surely the thing should have warmed up by that time? You surely can't be expected to give it 30 seconds between attempts even when its mid ride on a summer day?
Finally, Dr Farkhoff advocated binning the battery in favour of traditional leadAcid/AGM from somebody like Motobatt. The last Motobatt I had managed to split its case for no apparent reason, top to bottom on the narrow end, just out of warranty and left an acid stain down one of the frame tubes. So not a Motobatt fan. Having said that I am coming to the conclusion that this particular Lithium battery was probably a mistake...
I had trouble with this stuff last year when after a 2 min stop just after riding from the Lake District up to Adrossan to get the ferry to Arran . Stop at kiosk to buy ticket , hit starter and it refused .
So I sacked off the Arran trip is I didn’t want 5he hassle of being recovered from the Island .
Home , new Yusa bought ,fitted , No better . Tank off cleaned up the the earth lead ( why they put it under the tank
) ,No better . Removed started , stripped it to parts , reassembled with a new brush box - - all good ! ( so far )
So I sacked off the Arran trip is I didn’t want 5he hassle of being recovered from the Island .
Home , new Yusa bought ,fitted , No better . Tank off cleaned up the the earth lead ( why they put it under the tank
) ,No better . Removed started , stripped it to parts , reassembled with a new brush box - - all good ! ( so far )Attachments
As per boatman.
Just be methodical and eliminate things one by one.
Easy and cheap is to check/clean/replace all the wires connectors and earths. If that doesn’t cure it next easiest is….
…try and borrow a good one or get good jump leads and jump start. Still no good, remove old battery and carefully jump to the battery leads. Still not fixed…
… it’s your starter motor. Cheap option is buy a service kit strip it, fit the service parts, lube as required. Next cheapest is send it away for service. Next easiest but expensive option is buy a new starter.
It may of course be a combination of 2 or 3 of these each contributing to the slow start and the only proper fix will be a new battery and starter. The lithium battery sounds like it’s a liability. These bikes weren’t designed for them. Just get a Yuasa battery. They are as good as any other.
Just be methodical and eliminate things one by one.
Easy and cheap is to check/clean/replace all the wires connectors and earths. If that doesn’t cure it next easiest is….
…try and borrow a good one or get good jump leads and jump start. Still no good, remove old battery and carefully jump to the battery leads. Still not fixed…
… it’s your starter motor. Cheap option is buy a service kit strip it, fit the service parts, lube as required. Next cheapest is send it away for service. Next easiest but expensive option is buy a new starter.
It may of course be a combination of 2 or 3 of these each contributing to the slow start and the only proper fix will be a new battery and starter. The lithium battery sounds like it’s a liability. These bikes weren’t designed for them. Just get a Yuasa battery. They are as good as any other.
New battery
New or Re manufactured starter
You can try any number of options, Leads, brush packs, strip & clean, SH units
by the time you've been down that route you probably have spent more in time / labour than a new battery and starter
If your not keep on a motobatt, then go for an Odyssey unit
Your looking at max outlay of £250-300
Thats small change for 2012 bike
New or Re manufactured starter
You can try any number of options, Leads, brush packs, strip & clean, SH units
by the time you've been down that route you probably have spent more in time / labour than a new battery and starter
If your not keep on a motobatt, then go for an Odyssey unit
Your looking at max outlay of £250-300
Thats small change for 2012 bike
I think he has already proven it is a Lithium "issue"
To be sure Why not fit a pair of jump leads to a battery BUT connect the earth lead to the bike to a good earth point BUT not the battery earth point
Then Remove the Negative lead from the Lithium battery and isolate it
If the bike spins up first time with the jump leads and an AGM or LA battery then it is very likely the battery is the issue!
To be sure Why not fit a pair of jump leads to a battery BUT connect the earth lead to the bike to a good earth point BUT not the battery earth point
Then Remove the Negative lead from the Lithium battery and isolate it
If the bike spins up first time with the jump leads and an AGM or LA battery then it is very likely the battery is the issue!
I think he has already proven it is a Lithium "issue"
To be sure Why not fit a pair of jump leads to a battery BUT connect the earth lead to the bike to a good earth point BUT not the battery earth point
Then Remove the Negative lead from the Lithium battery and isolate it
If the bike spins up first time with the jump leads and an AGM or LA battery then it is very likely the battery is the issue!
AND a battery is a cheaper item!
Instead of just loading a parts cannon and firing the bloody thing at a bike and then wondering what the heck fixed it!
To be sure Why not fit a pair of jump leads to a battery BUT connect the earth lead to the bike to a good earth point BUT not the battery earth point
Then Remove the Negative lead from the Lithium battery and isolate it
If the bike spins up first time with the jump leads and an AGM or LA battery then it is very likely the battery is the issue!
AND a battery is a cheaper item!
Instead of just loading a parts cannon and firing the bloody thing at a bike and then wondering what the heck fixed it!
I think he has already proven it is a Lithium "issue"
To be sure Why not fit a pair of jump leads to a battery BUT connect the earth lead to the bike to a good earth point BUT not the battery earth point
Then Remove the Negative lead from the Lithium battery and isolate it
If the bike spins up first time with the jump leads and an AGM or LA battery then it is very likely the battery is the issue!
AND a battery is a cheaper item!
Instead of just loading a parts cannon and firing the bloody thing at a bike and then wondering what the heck fixed it!
Yup battery is cheaper, ... but spending money on a cheap replacement and then finding out its the starter just adds to the cost DAMHK
I tried to convince myself mine, wasn't the starter, but one of the tossers from here did an over the phone diagnostic session - we proved in minutes it was the starter just using a multi meter
just measuring and recording voltages current drop / draw
My route to fix was
Strip & clean starter
New cheap battery £30
Re strip & clean starter
Starter to auto electric co. for test --- NFF
New +Ve & -Ve leads from starter to battery £24
New motobatt battery £60
New starter motor £160
Fixed
Meh Diagnosis skillz need Honed!!! 
I think the lithium batteries are pretty good, bar the cold starting foible. After five years (as I already mentioned above) I still get a proper punch out of the battery in all weathers. During Covid the bike did stand idle for longer periods than I would otherwise have ever left it (I think 3 months was the longest stretch?) and even then, it started on first push of the button, though holding their charge is another plus for lithium batteries...
Based on all the above, it sounds like Austin W was right, at the beginning of the thread >>> the starter motor is the issue, maybe combined with a dodgy earth connection.
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Based on all the above, it sounds like Austin W was right, at the beginning of the thread >>> the starter motor is the issue, maybe combined with a dodgy earth connection.
Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
I had the similar poor starting especially after the bike had got hot on 2010 TC last year.
I looked on the forum and see your first post and tried all suggestions but still no joy. I then took my two battery's and my alternator to my local auto electrician thay tested them and said all were fine I was stumped.
Next thing a friend had a RT with the same starter on so we swapped them over his worked perfect on my bike and mine had the same problem on his bike especially when it got hot.
So i purchased a new upgraded alternator from EBay problem solved thank god it was driving me mad.
This is the ebay link if you are interested https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284344923073
I looked on the forum and see your first post and tried all suggestions but still no joy. I then took my two battery's and my alternator to my local auto electrician thay tested them and said all were fine I was stumped.
Next thing a friend had a RT with the same starter on so we swapped them over his worked perfect on my bike and mine had the same problem on his bike especially when it got hot.
So i purchased a new upgraded alternator from EBay problem solved thank god it was driving me mad.
This is the ebay link if you are interested https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284344923073
.
What logic does that follow????
Jump start with a normal battery and all is well
On a cold morning press starter once = Much Sadness
BUT Wait 30 secs until the lithium becomes "alive" and it spins over normally
How the heck is that the starter???
It is the "energy" supplied to the starter Which seems in this case to be a lithium battery !
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