Remap by Hilltop Motorcycles

[Schtum]

Just done a quick calc to make 134.51 lbft @ 2946rpm the engine will be producing about 75 bhp @ 2946 rpm the stock engine is producing about 38 bhp at 2946 rpm.

The numbers dont add up

I think it's a matter of mixing up readings taken at the flywheel and at the back wheel. As Blackal has suggested the very high torque figure is probably taken at the back wheel and is a result of the torque multiplication factor of the gearbox. BMW, like most vehicle manufacturers, quote their BHP and torque figures at the flywheel, hence their BHP figures being higher than the rear wheel figures and the torque figures being lower when both are measured on a dyno.

 

[Wilsdorf]

The figure is taken "across" the gears on a through the gear run.

 

[Wilsdorf]

ok have a good one and ride safe .

ps was it your dad on the other std bike ???

geoff @ hilltop

Cheers Geoff, & yes it was, I don't think my brothers would slow down enough to check anything meaningful

 

[Deleted account 181015003]

The increase is too big unless the before and after readings are not been taken in the same gear, the dyno measures the rear wheel figure and by measuring the braking force after the run works out the losses.

Every dyno is different and its the change that is the important bit the change in this case is double the pre map?

I still think the numbers dont add up they might as well been picked at random.

 

[Wilsdorf]

The increase is too big unless the before and after readings are not been taken in the same gear, the dyno measures the rear wheel figure and by measuring the braking force after the run works out the losses.

Every dyno is different and its the change that is the important bit the change in this case is double the pre map?

I still think the numbers dont add up they might as well been picked at random.

They don't, as it is not the torque figure that has been quoted - the through the gear run figure has been stated instead - the torque would be around 80-85 looking at the other charts posted.

 

[Deleted account 181015003]

Is this how the reading were taken

pre map 65 lbft in say 6th gear
post map 134 lbft in say 1st gear

What would this tell any one ?

 

[APE]

So there have been over 400 posts and thousands of viewings. I guess a couple of dozen have taken the plunge and coughed up the 300+ notes for the remap.

Other than 'the bike seems smoother' - can anyone vouch that their's feels 20+% stronger at max revs - I cant remember reading any posts to that effect and this has got too long to re-read

 

[Blackal]

Is this how the reading were taken

pre map 65 lbft in say 6th gear
post map 134 lbft in say 1st gear

What would this tell any one ?

It's a good number for down the pub

Al

 

[Deleted account 181015003]

The only thing this tells us about the remap is the bike was very lean from the factory and the remap has corrected this the torque and bhp figures are of no use.

Could the triple black that has no performance increase since the remap have been the same as this bike lean pre remap and is this why its just the same as the non mapped one?

 

[Fluffmeister]

So there have been over 400 posts and thousands of viewings. I guess a couple of dozen have taken the plunge and coughed up the 300+ notes for the remap.

Other than 'the bike seems smoother' - can anyone vouch that their's feels 20+% stronger at max revs - I cant remember reading any posts to that effect and this has got too long to re-read

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3185894&postcount=367

I did, and it does. Graphs posted up as well.

At the end of the day its all bout personal preference, for the £350 I got results I can feel, even more so on the road up to Inverness last night, 420 miles fully loaded, it pulled like the luggage was not there in the upper 40% of the rev range.

IMHO, optimising the mapping this way is a far greater bang for your buck than a £600 Akrapovic can (Ok, £420 ish on here with the current offer) along with a Power Commander / Filter.

It works, I've seen enough cars and bikes on dyno's / rollers to be a reasonable judge of things and on my runs the dyno was not subject to any trickery or recalibration, map was loaded, tea was drunk, bike was warmed up, runs where done, figures compared.

 

[Deleted account 181015003]

Can a dealer tell if the bike has been remapped in the event of a engine problem and warranty claim?

Is the remap easy to turn back to standard for the same reason?

I would love the extra go and smoothness that the remap offers but dont want anything that cant be put back to standard quickly

 

[Fluffmeister]

Can a dealer tell if the bike has been remapped in the event of a engine problem and warranty claim?

Is the remap easy to turn back to standard for the same reason?

I would love the extra go and smoothness that the remap offers but dont want anything that cant be put back to standard quickly

On a road test the dealer would probably notice it felt a bit "fitter" than other GS's, to revert you would need to have the stock map loaded back on by Hilltop.

A dealer would probably not be able to detect map has been changed, but if the ECU was sent back to the factory then they probably would be able to do it. I'm not sure if the ECU has a flash counter, that would record the number of times it's been flashed, a lot of car's do and on a VAG car for example I can read the flash counter on some cars with VCDS (Formerly Vag-Com), which is more powerful than the dealer diagnostics equipment, but I can't "read" the mapping with it.

That's why most of the usual suspects in the car world (VAG / Renault / BMW / Volvo / Ford etc) protect the ECU's with encryption (as do BMW on the GS) but also with cage's and tamper proof screws now to make it easier for the dealer to detect any skulduggery

 

[Rusty Bolts]

Just done a quick calc to make 134.51 lbft @ 2946rpm the engine will be producing about 75 bhp @ 2946 rpm the stock engine is producing about 38 bhp at 2946 rpm.

The numbers dont add up

Yes the very high torque figure is consistent with my print out but only in 2nd gear as you go through the gears there is a downward slope for the Torque. The 'overall' figures quoted are done in top gear. I think Geoff goes through the gears to try and get as flat a line as possible and see how quickly the engine is reaching max power in each gear. Geoff would be able to explain better.
Anyway, I'm off to the pub

 

[Rusty Bolts]

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3185894&postcount=367

I did, and it does. Graphs posted up as well.

At the end of the day its all bout personal preference, for the £350 I got results I can feel, even more so on the road up to Inverness last night, 420 miles fully loaded, it pulled like the luggage was not there in the upper 40% of the rev range.

IMHO, optimising the mapping this way is a far greater bang for your buck than a £600 Akrapovic can (Ok, £420 ish on here with the current offer) along with a Power Commander / Filter.

It works, I've seen enough cars and bikes on dyno's / rollers to be a reasonable judge of things and on my runs the dyno was not subject to any trickery or recalibration, map was loaded, tea was drunk, bike was warmed up, runs where done, figures compared.

Can't believe you got tea
There again have you seen the kitchen-cum-kharzinot so sure I would want a cuppa

 

[Schtum]

I'm not sure if the ECU has a flash counter, that would record the number of times it's been flashed, a lot of car's do and on a VAG car for example I can read the flash counter on some cars with VCDS (Formerly Vag-Com), which is more powerful than the dealer diagnostics equipment, but I can't "read" the mapping with it.

The owner of my local remapping company - www.starperformance.co.uk - tells me he can reset the flash counter back to 0 when he remaps a car. I asked a question about whether or not Hilltop could do this to BMW Motorrad ECUs earlier in this thread but I don't think I got an answer.

That's why most of the usual suspects in the car world (VAG / Renault / BMW / Volvo / Ford etc) protect the ECU's with encryption (as do BMW on the GS) but also with cage's and tamper proof screws now to make it easier for the dealer to detect any skulduggery

The major deterrent to remapping current VAG cars is the dual-core processors with 64 bit encryption which they now use. No-one seems to have cracked the encryption to enable the EPROM to be flashed via the OBD port and it's once again necessary to remove the board from the ECU, just like in the old days of "chipping", to either solder pins onto it or fit it into a cage.

 

[Fluffmeister]

The major deterrent to remapping current VAG cars is the dual-core processors with 64 bit encryption which they now use. No-one seems to have cracked the encryption to enable the EPROM to be flashed via the OBD port and it's once again necessary to remove the board from the ECU, just like in the old days of "chipping", to either solder pins onto it or fit it into a cage.

There's a great explanation about the EDC / MED17 ECU's here from my tuner, Ben at Shark Performance

http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/blog/article.asp?id=129

Sorry for heading OT

 

[Blackal]

The owner of my local remapping company - www.starperformance.co.uk - tells me he can reset the flash counter back to 0 when he remaps a car. I asked a question about whether or not Hilltop could do this to BMW Motorrad ECUs earlier in this thread but I don't think I got an answer.

I think Hilltop stated that the remap couldn't be detected - two or three pages back.

Of course - that doesn't mean, in a year's time........ they can't

Al

 

[chrisjk]

FWIW - which may not be very much, I was told by a dealer bod that when the bikes are connected to the dealer's computer the ECU info is actually being interrogated/updated by a central computer back at the BMW HQ not locally at the dealer premises.

If true it suggests that the mothership could quickly detect if unauthorised changes had been made. This thought has been keeping me from taking my bike to Hiilltop as it is still in warranty.

 

[autogs]

FWIW - which may not be very much, I was told by a dealer bod that when the bikes are connected to the dealer's computer the ECU info is actually being interrogated/updated by a central computer back at the BMW HQ not locally at the dealer premises.

If true it suggests that the mothership could quickly detect if unauthorised changes had been made. This thought has been keeping me from taking my bike to Hiilltop as it is still in warranty.

that is def true for the cars,bikes maybe

 

[Blackal]

Found a reference to an earlier thread - which gives a lot more information:

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255076


General concensus - is that pick-up is better, smoother, and more power.

Al