Remap by Hilltop Motorcycles

[Goose]

I still believe that most blokes are missing the proverbial bus/taxi here.

If you're looking for Superbike performance here.... go get another bike - simples!

The biggest gain (forgetting torque and hp increase) is the fact that Geoff will map the ECU to what it SHOULD have been when leaving the factory.
The most critical part is the A/F which allows the engine to work as it was originally designed - before the EU decided to throttle the hell out of it with their Emission Control laws.

The fact that correct and reasonable A/F settings will allow a cooler running engine has massive spin-offs. There are numerous threads on here, Horizons Unlimited, ADVrider, Wilddogs etc where the EU-3 settings and problems are discussed with incorrect and very LEAN fuelling as well as overheating engines.
In South Africa - running bikes with lean 14.7:1 (or leaner) in temps in excess of 30deg C, with poor fuel quality - numerous bikes from 2007 have had catastrophic engine failures........
Even asking BMW to load their factory "BMW Poor Fuel Map" has fallen of deaf ears....

Geoff's remap will rectify a problem that BMW-GA will not & cannot do, and will effectively allow your engine to last longer..... it will totally override and cancel the need to buy an aftermarket "fixing solution" such as the Power Commander and Wunderlicht controller.........

My 2009 GSA was eventually sold after 2 years of battling with BMW-SA and not getting anywhere. Their answer to the problem was that I should add Octane Booster to my fuel.... and I should not be overly concerned because should the engine blow or be damaged - they would repair or replace under warranty
We were also told that there were not enough of us in SA to warrant BMW-GA's attention to "out-of-the-EU" remapping!

My 2011 GSA is sitting waiting over here........ as soon as I have some spare cash... I'll be off to visit Geoff to have it done with absolute confidence - no questions about it!

IT WILL SOLVE a myriad of issues....

 

[ebbo]

If my 12RT is declared fault free on Thursday despite its habit of stalling in traffic, I think the remap will be essential. I'm assuming that it'll fix the bike of its lumpy tickover & random stalling.

Tick over and stalling will not be fixed with a remap. its needs plugging in to a GS-911 to find out what the problem is first. I have one here in York but I'm a fair way away from you, if anyone closer has one please shout up

 

[Mistacat]

Another thought on the reason for poor fuelling.
R1200Gs 09 full Reamus exhaust + K&N filter. Fuelling perfect in all conditions (data logged in road conditions with wide band lambda)
Except under acceleration bellow 4000 rpm when it would run a lot sweeter if it was a little richer.
I wonder if BMW mapped it this way to coax riders to upshift gears earlier to take the load off the final drive and gearbox (stop it lugging at low revs)
It would have been so simple for BMW to map it correctly.
I dont believe that it is a emissions issue as the lambda sensor is controlling the fuelling at 90% of the real time riding.
I have tried to overcome this by increasing the injector pulse width ( post ECU) up to the 4000 rpm point which works for a very short time before the ECU learns its way around it.

I think a visit to Geoff is on the cards for some education as well as getting the map put right.

My question does Geoff alter the effective Lambda readings to make it run richer when under the control of the TPS or is it the load on the dyno that makes the graphs look this way ?

 

[Wilsdorf]

I still believe that most blokes are missing the proverbial bus/taxi here.

If you're looking for Superbike performance here.... go get another bike - simples!

I don't think most blokes are missing the point and I don't think they are looking for superbike performance from a GS - what they may be looking for is 20bhp more and 10lb torque more. From my personal perspective, and the main point being, this is not the case and contradicts the figures that people are posting in respect of their remaps. I am sure a lot of people had the remap done because of the ALL the posted benefits and not just smoother throttle response and a better AF ratio.

 

[APE]

Of course I want an optimal AF ratio and the modest performance improvements I believe that would give. However £360 is a big outlay especially as you'll get no money back compared to buying a PC or a pipe.

I would need to see a 'seat of the pants' 20 - 25% gain (as claimed) to justify the cost. With one or two exceptions the feedback doesnt seem to suggest that.

The bottom line is I'm reasonably happy with the standard performance and so I can't really justify the time to go over there on a 'try it and see' basis. I think what I've read so far is enough for me to make that decision.

 

[Pukmeister]

I think a visit to Geoff is on the cards for some education as well as getting the map put right.

My question does Geoff alter the effective Lambda readings to make it run richer when under the control of the TPS or is it the load on the dyno that makes the graphs look this way ?

My understanding of the Lambdas function is that they can only trim a small percentage off the mapped fuel curve, not override it. I could well be wrong though and hope the experts can enlighten us.

 

[spm0912]

The remap does not give you a 20-25% increase in (seat of the pants) performance. That's why I said ignore what the dyno figures say, maybe that is due to diminishing returns as you climb the Bhp ladder. Don't know and don't really care. It just makes it an even better bike to ride, whether that's worth £350 is very subjective, I ride pretty much every day, all year round, no car, my bike is my sole transport, oh and I'm a tight arse but for me it was worth the money and far better value than most of the TT bling people adorn their bikes with.

I remember being quite happy with B&W TV, until I had a colour one, wouldn't go back now!!!!

What the long term implications are on this mod who knows, Geoff has been remapping bikes for several years inc boxers with no apparent ill effects, I can't believe it will be any worse than running the bike lean as with the stock map.

You pays your money.............

 

[seahorse]

The bhp peak figure increases are of course at 7-7500 rpm. I doubt whether many GS riders rev their bikes that hard normally, or at all, its not that sort of bike after all. At lower engine speeds the bhp increase will be less significant but this is where the increase in torque and the filling in of the dips in the stock curve makes a real difference.
I didn't have the remap to get big power increases but to smooth out the power delivery on my 08 year bike on which the fuelling is frankly shite as standard. This it has most certainly achieved, and while the high rev power increase is not what I was looking for, it is there for sure and is a nice bonus.
I'm not interested in wasting money on stuff which has fuck all real value, and I am not loaded but £350 for a remap is money well spent.
To put it simply my bike is now the bike it should have been from new.

 

[Mistacat]

My understanding of the Lambdas function is that they can only trim a small percentage off the mapped fuel curve, not override it. I could well be wrong though and hope the experts can enlighten us.

I have increased the injector pulse width to give an afr of 12.5 -1 to see how the bike feels low down with a rich mixture, the lambda sensors very quickly pull this back to 14.7 - 1 on disconnecting the device the afr was 18 -1 but within a few minutes returned to 14.7 - 1.
I appreciate the narrow band output is of a very limited range but it seems to cope with a wide range of fuel offsets.
Hence I dont understand how at cruising speed it is claimed that these bikes run lean.
If I was prepared to scrap the lamdas and fit a power commander I would set the cruise mixture nearer 15.5 - 1.
If I went to see Geoff I would like the afr under acceleration set to nearer 12.5 instead of 13.5 which is as low as i goes at the moment.
Having said that it is a lot of money for a little tweak ( which could make the bike feel a lot different)

 

[neoviper]

when i get a free min from writing maps for £150.000 bsb bikes i look at this forum and try to give a bit of help to People.
i will go out my way to help people but when i see things like fit a power commander I would set the cruise mixture nearer 15.5 - 1 i think to myself OMG so on that note i will not post anymore if people need help call me because it is quite clear the sum members of the forum are on frickin drugs have a good one and ride safe .

geoff @ hilltop motorcycles x

 

[ebbo]

Geoff, you can’t blame them too much, they’ve been fed a diet of loud pipes, K&N’s and power commanders for years

 

[Rusty Bolts]

when i get a free min from writing maps for £150.000 bsb bikes i look at this forum and try to give a bit of help to People.
i will go out my way to help people but when i see things like fit a power commander I would set the cruise mixture nearer 15.5 - 1 i think to myself OMG so on that note i will not post anymore if people need help call me because it is quite clear the sum members of the forum are on frickin drugs have a good one and ride safe .

geoff @ hilltop motorcycles x

And you said you would not bite

 

[Mistacat]

when i get a free min from writing maps for £150.000 bsb bikes i look at this forum and try to give a bit of help to People.
i will go out my way to help people but when i see things like fit a power commander I would set the cruise mixture nearer 15.5 - 1 i think to myself OMG so on that note i will not post anymore if people need help call me because it is quite clear the sum members of the forum are on frickin drugs have a good one and ride safe .

geoff @ hilltop motorcycles x

I have run road engines for thousands of miles at 15.5 to 1 AFR under very light throttle conditions , That includes everything from airhead boxers to V8`s.
I appreciate that you are more interested in Hp.
I am trying to get the best out of the bike smoothness and economy.
Perhaps instead of slagging people off you could devote your valuable time to constructive input.

 

[Mr Bean]

Tick over and stalling will not be fixed with a remap. its needs plugging in to a GS-911 to find out what the problem is first. I have one here in York but I'm a fair way away from you, if anyone closer has one please shout up

I bought my GS-911 from Hexcode's Eire distributor, it cost about the same as a basic service from my local BMW dealer (£220.00) and therefore well worth it.

 

[Mr Bean]

Of course I want an optimal AF ratio and the modest performance improvements I believe that would give. However £360 is a big outlay especially as you'll get no money back compared to buying a PC or a pipe.

I would need to see a 'seat of the pants' 20 - 25% gain (as claimed) to justify the cost. With one or two exceptions the feedback doesnt seem to suggest that.

The bottom line is I'm reasonably happy with the standard performance and so I can't really justify the time to go over there on a 'try it and see' basis. I think what I've read so far is enough for me to make that decision.

A couple of questions/points

1) It's probably between 2.5 and 3 hours each way from you - is that really so much for the possible benefits?

2) Why continue posting doubt, when 3 weeks ago the offer of only pay if you are happy was made?

3) You may get your money back but do you actually achieve any performance benefit from a pipe - which will probably cost more than a remap for for nothing more than a louder noise from your rear end

 

[APE]

when i get a free min from writing maps for £150.000 bsb bikes i look at this forum and try to give a bit of help to People.
i will go out my way to help people but when i see things like fit a power commander I would set the cruise mixture nearer 15.5 - 1 i think to myself OMG so on that note i will not post anymore if people need help call me because it is quite clear the sum members of the forum are on frickin drugs have a good one and ride safe .

geoff @ hilltop motorcycles x

Hey Geoff given the amount of money you have made from this thread maybe you should pay your subs and stop slagging off members

 

[APE]

A couple of questions/points

1) It's probably between 2.5 and 3 hours each way from you - is that really so much for the possible benefits?

2) Why continue posting doubt, when 3 weeks ago the offer of only pay if you are happy was made?

3) You may get your money back but do you actually achieve any performance benefit from a pipe - which will probably cost more than a remap for for nothing more than a louder noise from your rear end

Yep you're probably right but I think it's time to move on -

 

[heathy]

Quick update now I've put a few more miles on the gsa(2008) fOllowing remap. I'd say the general feedback from people who've had the remap is spot on. It genuinely does feel like a very different bike in a number of respects. Firstly the bad points, still a bit lumpy below 2k and still got drive train shunt but better than before.
I won't reproduce all the good points reported previously but would say that the bike really flies when you give it the beans in a way It never managed before and it feels mOre relaxed doing it. The engIne seems quieter ( is this possible?) and never intrudes like the clattEring bag of spanners I used to ride. Basically it feels like its doing what it was desIgned to do. It comes as no surprise that some reckon it should be more reliable as a result.
I'm findIng gear selection less crucial to making smooth progress eg roundabouts I'd take in third can be taken comfortably in forth or second as it feels so smooth at higher rpm, in fact today I even forgot to change into 6th on a 90mph a road. Previously I'd always thought the GSA gearing was too low in toP gear but it feels fine now, probably down to not having the thrashiness at higher rpm I used to have.
In summary, very pleased. Would love to do some roll on tests against a non mapped bike if anyone up for it.

 

[Wilsdorf]

Yep you're probably right but I think it's time to move on -

Agreed, I am going to tinker with one of my other bikes for a few weeks instead, lie in the sun and worry about more important things

 

[Mistacat]

Geoff, you can’t blame them too much, they’ve been fed a diet of loud pipes, K&N’s and power commanders for years

My diet has been many years of building successful competition engines.

I think I will also leave this forum alone as I have obviously touched a raw nerve.