Remap by Hilltop Motorcycles

[spm0912]

Umm, interesting, all these posts and only 2 'non believers' who rightly or wrongly expect a 20% increase in power on the dyno to equate to a 20% increase in speed on the road ie Multistrada territory.

One of the best things about Internet forums and in particular UKGSER is that it can spread the word about stuff I'd never hear of in my little bubble of a world. Sometimes it's crap and sometimes it's really useful.
This remap is a case in point. In 30+ years of owning bikes I've never once felt the need to modify a bike to make it faster. Once I tired with its power I just bought a faster bike! Of course I've done the louder, lighter exhaust route with its 2-3 bhp gain sir but it was never about performance. When this thread started I wasn't that interested, I was quite happy with my bike but a mate at work had his done and I after riding i thought wow, with a 3k 2up trip to east Europe coming up this will give me the oomf needed to roll on the throttle on the autobahns. As its turned out its just made it much nicer to ride throughout the rev range.
Geoff by his own admission is a bit of a geek, he doesn't own hilltop so I don't think he be that unhappy if he never saw a GS again. He's wrote the map for the boxer engine and would get far more excited if you took him something else more challenging to work on.
So my point is... This works!! If you can afford it it's well worth doing but life will go on if you don't. If you're bike is not running right this is not a cure all solution to all problems.
Keeping this thread going means others may see it and they can make an informed choice whether it's right for them.
Time will tell on the long term implications and despite geoffs assurances I'm still worried that the dealer may override the map when it's in for service. It's in soon and if it does I shall be straight on here to tell all!
Have a nice day

 

[Wilsdorf]

Umm, interesting, all these posts and only 2 'non believers' who rightly or wrongly expect a 20% increase in power on the dyno to equate to a 20% increase in speed on the road ie Multistrada territory.

One of the best things about Internet forums and in particular UKGSER is that it can spread the word about stuff I'd never hear of in my little bubble of a world. Sometimes it's crap and sometimes it's really useful.
This remap is a case in point. In 30+ years of owning bikes I've never once felt the need to modify a bike to make it faster. Once I tired with its power I just bought a faster bike! Of course I've done the louder, lighter exhaust route with its 2-3 bhp gain sir but it was never about performance. When this thread started I wasn't that interested, I was quite happy with my bike but a mate at work had his done and I after riding i thought wow, with a 3k 2up trip to east Europe coming up this will give me the oomf needed to roll on the throttle on the autobahns. As its turned out its just made it much nicer to ride throughout the rev range.
Geoff by his own admission is a bit of a geek, he doesn't own hilltop so I don't think he be that unhappy if he never saw a GS again. He's wrote the map for the boxer engine and would get far more excited if you took him something else more challenging to work on.
So my point is... This works!! If you can afford it it's well worth doing but life will go on if you don't. If you're bike is not running right this is not a cure all solution to all problems.
Keeping this thread going means others may see it and they can make an informed choice whether it's right for them.
Time will tell on the long term implications and despite geoffs assurances I'm still worried that the dealer may override the map when it's in for service. It's in soon and if it does I shall be straight on here to tell all!
Have a nice day

If you are counting me as one of your non-believers - then your assumption of what I expect a 20% increase in power to provide is wholly wrong (and my increase was 30% on both bhp and torque by the way!) (oh and the Multi is 150bhp - these increases would put the GS at what? 130bhp+ - hardly Multi performance).- if I wanted a faster bike I would ride one of my other bikes, or indeed have bought a much faster bike - I wanted a GS and more to the point I wanted a "slightly" faster twin cam GS. If you love a particular bike for the way it looks, rides, and the comfort it provides etc., why should you have to buy a different bike just because it is faster - this is why we see heavily modified cars, because the owners love that model and not specifically the speed that could be obtained from another. Any way back to bikes - unfortunately I did not get a faster bike, despite the increased outputs.

What I'm amazed by is that a lot of people who have paid their money and have their graphs do not expect to be able to tell the difference in performance between the before and after performance - why did they originally bother? Did they pay the money purely for the smoother low end pick up, which some site as the only real benefit they "feel"? It would be impossible not to have fairly significant performance gains, before and after, from these bikes tested against a clock - never mind "seat of the pants" feel. We are talking about 20% increases in power here – not 3-5bhp at the top end!

& for those saying “maybe it’s all top-end” and “I don’t rev my bike that hard” – look at the graphs, the power increases are throughout the whole rev range – not just at the very top end, so from riding bikes for 36 years before and some with minor and major mods, I'd say this should be very noticeable and easily measurable from before and after.

I’m out – no point continuing the conversation, as we appear to be going round in circles and I have no intention of insulting people or causing grief – I’ve posted my results and my tests and “seat of the pants feel” So from someone who has tried this and tested it against a standard bike (and having had much less gains on a Dyno, around a 1/3rd of the stated gains from these graphs after putting just Power commander and full pipe on my Fireblade and seeing easily measureable performance gains from that) – my final word on matter is; personally, I do not believe my bike has gained the 19lb torque, or 24bhp the graphs show (I have no idea why that is the case and I don’t care to speculate either – it was worth a try based on the stated results/graphs posted by others), and if I had tested the “full” results on the road, in all conditions compared to a standard bike before and after the remap I wouldn’t have bothered – that’s just me and ymmv and it will not dampen my like for the bike one little bit

 

[Rasher]

& for those saying “maybe it’s all top-end” and “I don’t rev my bike that hard” – look at the graphs, the power increases are throughout the whole rev range – not just at the very top end, so from riding bikes for 36 years before and some with minor and major mods, I'd say this should be very noticeable and easily measurable from before and after.

Your assuming they open the throttle all the way

I found the GS requires a double jointed wrist to get full throttle (fitted a quick action jobbie to mine)

I have also come across many riders who do not realise they are only using 50% throttle and are amazed how fast their bike is when you tell them to twist it till it won't twist no more.

I know a race school instructor and he reckons this is very sommon of road riders turning up to the school, they exit a corner and use a fraction of the throttle.

So can everyone go out and twist the throttle all the way to the stop - allthough we would not be sure how much of any extra power discovered is from the remap or using more than 25% throttle

 

[Mr Bean]

That's a funny suggestion. Are you suggesting that us happy customers have suddenly learnt to fully open the throttle?

Me personally, I can open the throttle to the stop with one easy action. However, I do have problems smoothly rolling off the throttle and tend to let go if I want to close it fully - but then again my radius was recently broken in to many pieces by a myopic van driver and the wrist movement is somewhat restricted.

 

[Popell]

I really want to believe that on my bike I could trundle down to Hilltop, wile away a few hours chatting technicalities with Geoff while he imbued my bike with an additional 30% power/torque.
But a few observations:-
My bike seems to run pretty well at the mo although there is a noticeable step in power at 5.5k
I find it difficult to believe that it is perhaps chucking out circa 80 bhp as it keeps up pretty well with a (better ridden) Explorer
I find it incomprehensible that power increases of this magnitude are barely noticeable(if at all, in some cases) -try riding a bike with 25% less power (ie something of a similar weight with around 60 bhp and see if you can tell the difference then, perhaps even a R1100GS, I reckon it should be rather obvious in that case!!
And that guff about throttle opening is quite plainly, nonsense, I am sure Geoff is opening the throttle similarly both before and after

I think Geoff's offer of try it and pay if happy is very generous, and one that if I had the money I would seriously consider -its a no lose opportunity......
And it would satisfy my curiosity

 

[heathy]

I find it incomprehensible that power increases of this magnitude are barely noticeable(if at all, in some cases) -try riding a bike with 25% less power (ie something of a similar weight with around 60 bhp and see if you can tell the difference then, perhaps even a R1100GS, I reckon it should be rather obvious in that

I suspect that most tossers rarely ride their bike with the throttle to the stop( unless on track). I know I twist the throttle to get what acceleration or cruising speed I want (same as I do with the accelerator pedal in a car) and get by most of the time on part throttle. Following the remap I ride in exactly the same way, therefore I'm generally not asking for full power,torque throughout the range and so the extra umph isn't the main observation I or others are making for general riding. I do suspect I don't need to open the throttle as much now, but no way to prove this to myself or others. I can tell you when you do open the throttle to the stop she bloody flies down the road!

I'm certainly very happy to do a roll on test with anyone who is bothered about the absolute power aspects. I've got a 2008 GSA and I'm about 15st. The bike is bog standard apart from the remap. The chart says mine is putting out 105 bhp at the back wheel on standard unleaded so we should see a "very noticeable" difference between the bikes. I suspect others in different parts of the country might be open to do the same.

 

[Popell]

I can tell you when you do open the throttle to the stop she bloody flies down the road!

Thats more like it!!

If I had chucked a significant (for me if not for others)wedge at the bike I would certainly be looking to test it fully once, at the very least.

Thinking about my own riding, as I rarely commute on it and get allowed a pretty limited amount of time to enjoy my biking, I do tend to rag it most of the time so perhaps that is why I believe I would feel any difference in absolute power.

Thanks for the response

 

[Rasher]

I suspect that most tossers rarely ride their bike with the throttle to the stop( unless on track). I know I twist the throttle to get what acceleration or cruising speed I want (same as I do with the accelerator pedal in a car) and get by most of the time on part throttle

That was my point

I am sure the dyno man does, its what they do all day long, many owners do not and if your only using 50%-70% throttle your not going to find the extra power - but you will notice the smoother running and a little bit more grunt, which is exactly what many report.

I can tell you when you do open the throttle to the stop she bloody flies down the road!

Indeed, and I suspect many owners would be surprised if they tried this on their stock bikes.

Some bikes have very agressive re-actions to part throttle, this is typical because a smal opening of throttle = a huge amount of opened area on the butterflies, with diminishing returns the further they are rotated.

The GS seems to buck this trend, whereas most jap bikes fly on small throttle openings and revs is more important to power delivery than throttle setting, I found the GS the other way around, to get the best from the motor you needed much bigger throttle openings.

The Triumph Explorer has been criticised by the press for having an over-active response to small throttle openings - can't help but to wonder if they do this so everyone trying a demo thinks if is a damn sight quicker than it really is.

As most people probably run around at 50% throttle or less so the difference between the GS and Explorer will feel far bigger than it really is, although if you always have ridden like that, and always will then the Explorer is far faster for you - but fully opening your GS throttle is probably the cheapest way to find another 20% power, and a lot cheaper than a new bike.

If BMW have any sense they will follow Triumphs lead and stack the power in the smaller throttle openings - oh so easy to do with fly-by-wire - and of course they will tweak the press bikes for another 20BHP anyways - that's why your GS only has 80BHP when it hits Geofs dyno and the magazine tests always show around 100.

 

[sagalout]

I find it incomprehensible that power increases of this magnitude are barely noticeable(if at all, in some cases) -try riding a bike with 25% less power (ie something of a similar weight with around 60 bhp and see if you can tell the difference then, perhaps even a R1100GS, I reckon it should be rather obvious in that case!!
And that guff about throttle opening is quite plainly, nonsense, I am sure Geoff is opening the throttle similarly both before and after

I think Geoff's offer of try it and pay if happy is very generous, and one that if I had the money I would seriously consider -its a no lose opportunity......
And it would satisfy my curiosity

I had a Versys which is about 60bhp ish. Didn't feel much, if any slower than my twin cam GS - only real difference is above 100mph and 2 up performance. I find it very easy to believe that 20bhp would be all that noticeable at normal road speeds. Stick a data logger on the back, take it to bruntingthorpe and you might record a few tenths quicker.

Put it this way, the 0-60 times of most 600cc bikes are within a second of each other, be it a S1000R of a boxer engined bike.

 

[Norm]

What I'm amazed by is that a lot of people who have paid their money and have their graphs do not expect to be able to tell the difference in performance between the before and after performance why did they originally bother?

That's exactly why i had my bike done today
To not be able to tell any difference

Geoffs jokes are shyte
His tea is shyte
The chippy down the road is excellent
The locals are out of this world I.e. on another planet.
I met a man who used north sea gas as a sedative, dispensed from his gas hob, to partially anethatise himself to assist with a DIY tooth extraction.
I saw a couple bring in the most dangerous bike I have ever seen for MOT test (it failed of course)
And bugger me I proper aced a combine harvester on my Exocet journey thru chezvegas on my way home (and I have witnesses).
And without earplugs the fecker is still as noisy and sounds like a tractor but NOW goes like an FS1E

 

[Norm]

I've just remembered, Geoff even managed to convince 2 KTM owners blast)
that he'd improved their bikes performance.

I think his software is just an excel spreadsheet that produces graphs, whilst he revs the feck outa your bike.

Up a bit, down a bit, smooth line a bit.

Have it done and feel the difference

 

[Micky]

NOW goes like an FS1E

All set for the Schwarzwald next week then

Have it done and feel the difference

What, like a vasectomy

 

[B4ndit]

Seems to be a lot of people are blowing smoke up their ar_es on this thread.

 

[autogs]

well i never thought id say it but on this occasion rashers right
the throttle on gs is not always going to the stop if you adopt a normal trottle grip at rest,it does almost req a 2 step twist,hence like rasher i have fitted a quick action throttle.im quite happy how fast my 2010 is when you actually use all the revs.

 

[oldnfat]

well i never thought id say it but on this occasion rashers right
the throttle on gs is not always going to the stop if you adopt a normal trottle grip at rest,it does almost req a 2 step twist,hence like rasher i have fitted a quick action throttle.im quite happy how fast my 2010 is when you actually use all the revs.

+ 1 .... The quick action throttle is a key mod IMO. I would go so far as to say it is worth doing on safety grounds, particularly when going for the overtake....

...still interested in the remap and by the sounds of it a no brainier when compared to say the price of an aftermarket end can which I see on a lot of GS's.

 

[autogs]

im thinking that with a quick action throttle and a remap a gs could be fairly quick out of a bend,mmmm £360 shall i or shant i

 

[Kahuna]

+ 1 .... The quick action throttle is a key mod IMO. I would go so far as to say it is worth doing on safety grounds, particularly when going for the overtake....
.

Where did you get the QA throttle??Like one on my RT!

 

[Giles]

http://www.boxer-design.de/en/default.asp


Go to handle bar and ergonomics. £50 odd for a tiny bit of plastic - and it's fragile - very easy to snap when fitting, but well worth it.

 

[148stu]

Seems to be a lot of people are blowing smoke up their ar_es on this thread.

What he said ^

Lots of armchair TT racers and engine tuners, fook me its sent me to sleep

I believe in what Geoff is doing, and to quote the gent who made the comment "He's putting the bike back to how it should've left the factory before the EU ruined it all".... is probably spot on

And theres a lot to be said for that, quote " crispness, pick up, smoothness "

That is all.

 

[zei220]

I had mine done at the weekend, best £s i've spent on the bike so far.