Remap by Hilltop Motorcycles

[spm0912]

Despite locking horns with Wilsdorf 40 odd pages ago about this, he is quite right, there is not a 20% increase in power as suggested by the Dyno figures. TBH I doubt my Twin Cam is any faster than it was before, maybe marginally. What it is is smoother, feels like it has more of an urge to go and has got rid of the dip around 5k making accelerating up to 6-7k revs much more pleasurable.

Was it worth 350 quid? Damn right it was and for those not chasing more power a must have mod IMHO.

Riding bikes for me is all about feel, not outright speed, if you want to increase your lap times round the Island look elsewhere, but if you want the bike to feel 'right' then pop along to Geoff

 

[Wilsdorf]

Despite locking horns with Wilsdorf 40 odd pages ago about this, he is quite right, there is not a 20% increase in power as suggested by the Dyno figures. TBH I doubt my Twin Cam is any faster than it was before, maybe marginally. What it is is smoother, feels like it has more of an urge to go and has got rid of the dip around 5k making accelerating up to 6-7k revs much more pleasurable.

Was it worth 350 quid? Damn right it was and for those not chasing more power a must have mod IMHO.

Riding bikes for me is all about feel, not outright speed, if you want to increase your lap times round the Island look elsewhere, but if you want the bike to feel 'right' then pop along to Geoff

I think that is probably the nail on the head, and a very good summing up.

 

[Beemerman59]

there is not a 20% increase in power as suggested by the Dyno figures.

Why not? There are plenty of 1200 twins on the market producing a lot more bhp in standard trim. Why do you think it impossible that a 1200cc Boxer engine with the right fueling, lack of cat and a performance exhaust couldn't produce what is actually only 75% of another manufacturers standard engine which is still strangulated by the emissions constrictions?

 

[Beemerman59]

TBH I doubt my Twin Cam is any faster than it was before, maybe marginally. What it is is smoother, feels like it has more of an urge to go and has got rid of the dip around 5k making accelerating up to 6-7k revs much more pleasurable.

Your Twin cam or any other 1200 won't be any faster at the top end - thats dependant on the rev limiter and the gearing neither of which have changed. I competley agree with you concerning the increased urge and in my case where peak torque is now at 5.5K revs instead of over 7K revs seems to match what everyone else is saying about their own bikes - well almost everyone. If you had a 135mph 1200GS then you still have a 135mph 1200GS - what it does is get there quicker

 

[ThorH]

Oh Bugger! I look at this tread from time to time seeing all the 1200s going through. Now you tell me they can do 1150's .
Bugger, Bugger, Bugger!

Anyone know of a similar service a bit nearer to where I live?

John

John,
Bernhard in Bonn (www.bbpower.de) does it for €250. You just mail him your ECU. You can also mail it to Geoff, like I did. I chose to pay the premium price based on all the experience here.

Get her done, and I'll race you up the Hochalmstrasse in July.

 

[spm0912]

Why not? There are plenty of 1200 twins on the market producing a lot more bhp in standard trim. Why do you think it impossible that a 1200cc Boxer engine with the right fueling, lack of cat and a performance exhaust couldn't produce what is actually only 75% of another manufacturers standard engine which is still strangulated by the emissions constrictions?

Cos mine is standard and the before and after dyno runs show a 20% increase which IMHO do not equate to make my bike 20% quicker, in fact I doubt it's any quicker at all. Maybe with a de cat and end can along with a trip to Hilltop I'll get a performance boost due to the fuelling being optimised.

What I do get is a much better response to the throttle opening which 'feels' faster and encourages me to open it up more than I did before. It's all seat of the pants stuff, I have no hard data to prove things one way or the other. I've no reason to believe Geoff is manipulating his Data as has been suggested by others in the past. The most important thing for me is that the bike feels better to ride and for that reason it's well worth the money, any increase in performance you may or may not get is just the cherry on the cake and I suspect the vast majority of GS riders would be happy just to remove the lean running that is on a stock bike

 

[The Grey One]

John,
Bernhard in Bonn (www.bbpower.de) does it for €250. You just mail him your ECU. You can also mail it to Geoff, like I did. I chose to pay the premium price based on all the experience here.

Get her done, and I'll race you up the Hochalmstrasse in July.

What, send off my ECU and be without the bike for a while during the summer? No way, I'll have to settle on just being a little quicker than you up there rather than a lot quicker! But next winter, that could be a plan.

John

 

[NLC]

I've been watching this thread with interest. I have installed one of these short throttle stroke things on my 1200DOHC. I had a snowboarding accident many years ago where I damaged some small little bones in my right hand (yes, yes I have heard all the jokes before) and twisting the throttle all the way round was painful when I wanted to go faster/accelerate. It was a awful lot of money for a little piece of plastic but it has turned my bike into a hooligan machine. I doubt it but has anyone had this installed before they did the remap to compare/contrast?

 

[Giles]

I've been watching this thread with interest. I have installed one of these short throttle stroke things on my 1200DOHC. I had a snowboarding accident many years ago where I damaged some small little bones in my right hand (yes, yes I have heard all the jokes before) and twisting the throttle all the way round was painful when I wanted to go faster/accelerate. It was a awful lot of money for a little piece of plastic but it has turned my bike into a hooligan machine. I doubt it but has anyone had this installed before they did the remap to compare/contrast?

Yes - I have a short action throttle cam, and subsequently have had the bike remapped.

As you've read, your bike won't be any faster, as such, but the fuelling and the throttle pick up is now like a professional chef's razor sharp knife through an iceberg lettuce. It now picks up very very crisply and cleanly.
With your quick action throttle and the remap, it's a major improvement to the bike's get up and go ... and ... its smooth just cracked open throttle work (like in town ..),

 

[Wilsdorf]

Your Twin cam or any other 1200 won't be any faster at the top end - thats dependant on the rev limiter and the gearing neither of which have changed. I competley agree with you concerning the increased urge and in my case where peak torque is now at 5.5K revs instead of over 7K revs seems to match what everyone else is saying about their own bikes - well almost everyone. If you had a 135mph 1200GS then you still have a 135mph 1200GS - what it does is get there quicker

I think we all appreciate how gearing effects (theoretical) top speed and not gearing. & you may well be experiencing more torque at 5,5k instead of 7k - which may well suit your riding. But, if your bike gets to it's top speed quicker - what are the times? Because on riding a mapped twin cam and a non mapped bike - they are neck and neck on acceleration, to well over 120mph! & to top it off, surprisingly, the single cam bike - with only a full system (which is rated to provide less performance increase than the remap!) is quicker accelerating in a straight line run.

Bring your bike over for the TT, and we can put it in a straight line against a standard bike and see just how much quicker accelerating it is. As I am truly curious. I have no axe to grind, I simply want to understand - as I can not understand how the paper increases are not translated into performance in some correlated way, even if this was only slight. The maps are showing the same kind of figures that you would expect from a new model GS - what is missing is that the bikes are not performing similarly - in fact they are performing as if they are approx. 15bhp and a bit of torque down - funny that, don't you think?

My thoughts are - there may well be good improvements in respect to rideability from the remap, which is of benefit to owners in the real world. There may be better readings in lots of areas due to the bike not being set up to meet EU standards or whatever. That is not the point. I honestly do no believe there is an increase in power of even 10% (note I am not asking for 10% more speed/acceleration - I would just expect some - not none).

Obviously your experience differs from mine - and I am happy you are delighted with the change in your bike. I like and enjoy my bike (it is mapped), the only point I am making is "I", as in me personally, am a little disappointed as I expected an increase in performance and I have experienced absolutely none, when compared back to back with a standard bike, or a single cam with pipe.

A remap may well be a good option for many owners.

 

[BrokenPaw]

Giles and Short stroke throttle

Hi,
Slight hijack on thread. I was planning on a remap of the ECU, but just could not get the timing correct for a visit to Hilltop, so had to put it on the long finger. It's for a 2007 GSA.
Anyway, saw Giles had a Boxer Design short stroke throttle. I was looking at one of those, but was concerned that despite the cost, they may not be very well made; they look kinda .....
So, any chance of a few comments on what you think of your purchase with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
My other concern is, does it make the bike too sensitive when bouncing around over the rough stuff.

BTW, after following the remap thread, does anyone have any negative post map experiences?
Have you lost the sort of things like "limp home mode", or is the erasing of the fuel map a very selective procedure.
I have spoken to Geoff, and he seems a really good guy, and very knowledgable - just don't want to keep plaguing him with questions!!

 

[NLC]

I have the Boxer Design short stroke. You have got to be careful putting it in but once it is in no problem. The indicator switch moves so you can unscrew the assembly.

 

[Beemerman59]

Bring your bike over for the TT, and we can put it in a straight line against a standard bike and see just how much quicker accelerating it is.

That's not an option for me but I'm sure that if you want to hire Santa Pod for an afternoon there will be a number off this site who would gladly put their bikes through a 1/4 mile.

The whole top speed thing is pointless for me as I never go there. The low/mid range is however what I wanted improved and it has. That's it for me. I used to run a Wunderlich Fuel Controller and when I first fitted that I noticed a big improvement in get up and go as well. The remap seems to have done even more and across a wider band of the rev range including the point just above idle which the fuel controller didn't do. I rode the bike 120 miles up to Geoff's without that fitted so I still noticed the difference between the set ups. I have also used an accelerator module to richen up the mixture and that seemed to help the low speed pick up but did nothing for mid range. So the remap for me has made sense of all the the other options I've tried, made it better and simpler with less to go wrong all round. I can now forget about the whole fueling issue as I know its now spot on. The quoted dyno figures are just a statistical backup to what I notice when I ride my bike - I'm happy with that and its enough for me.

 

[Bendy toy]

+1 on top the speed thing being pointless.

The courts seem to start with a view that the biker is in the wrong so we can expect get banned when caught going over 100.

But acceleration is another thing. I wonder what the single cam engine is like with cam advance wheels and a remap.

 

[Wilsdorf]

The whole top speed thing is pointless for me as I never go there.

Top speed is pointless (the twin cam is probably geared for approx. 150mph - I doubt many/any will see it) but acceleration is not. I am not disagreeing that there may well be an improvement in day to day riding with the amended fuelling and lower down torque characteristics. I would even say that I believe the bike was indeed smoother after the remap. What I did not notice though is any increased acceleration, through the gears, against a standard bike.

The difference between my riding and most in the UK is, there is not blanket speed limit over here - so for now, provided you are rising sensibly you can ride after speeds over 100mph consistently, with no legal repercussions. Obviously when riding in the UK and EU the use of the throttle is moderated to suit the conditions.

Like I said above, the remap may well be a good choice for a variety of riders, for a multitude of reasons - that much is not denied. I just don't see it providing the type of performance gains that improved dyno figures suggest and if that is what you are looking for then you should look elsewhere.

I guess like a lot of people, I would like one road bike. Coming from a sportsbike background I made a decision to try a GS (this is the third I have tried and I love them (nothing an extra 20bhp across the range imo would sort for me). But for now I haven't given up on sportsbikes - but the cramped wrist riding position isn't so easy in advancing years. Maybe the newer model GS is closer to providing that one road bike option for the likes of me - but I prefer the look of the older bikes - at least for now. So I will have to maintain a garage with different bikes for different uses - but one day I am sure I'll have a bike i like the look of, that isn't built for midgets, carries everything I want in a tourer, and can have a good go at places like the TT course at weekends.

 

[dutch97501]

I noticed on the last ride I was on that at 120mph the bike seems to drop power. I never noticed this until I had the remap done. I checked my 1200gs sales brochure and did find that it said the top speed was 120mph from the factory. I think the only reason I noticed it this time is because it pulls hard to 120mph. I managed 47mpg on a 350 mile trip and 1/3 of it was on gravel roads. I have been very happy with the remap and would do it again all tho it has been a little hard on my headlight. It seems the headlight doesn't like the second gear wheelies.

 

[Wilsdorf]

I noticed on the last ride I was on that at 120mph the bike seems to drop power. I never noticed this until I had the remap done. I checked my 1200gs sales brochure and did find that it said the top speed was 120mph from the factory. I think the only reason I noticed it this time is because it pulls hard to 120mph. I managed 47mpg on a 350 mile trip and 1/3 of it was on gravel roads. I have been very happy with the remap and would do it again all tho it has been a little hard on my headlight. It seems the headlight doesn't like the second gear wheelies.

It shouldn't say 120mph top speed. What model is it? If you rev out in 5th it will pull top gear, but if you change up into top too early the power really tails off. 135mph should not be a problem on a long enough road.

 

[dutch97501]

It shouldn't say 120mph top speed. What model is it? If you rev out in 5th it will pull top gear, but if you change up into top too early the power really tails off. 135mph should not be a problem on a long enough road.

Here is a page that gives you specs for a R1200GSA. http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/bmw/bmw_r1200gs_adventure%2006.htm

Note top speed 192.7 km/h. And with the remap it gets their quick and still pulling strong in 6th gear. I havent tried redlining it in 5th. Most of the roads I ride on your not going to get over 80mph anyway

 

[Rusape]

Whats so special about Hilltop??

There are a number of places that offer rolling road tuning, but from what I've read on here, everyone seems to go to Hilltop.

Why ?

Does Hilltop have a special BMW map?
Is Hilltop the only firm that can map BMW?

The reason I ask, is that there is a rolling road in Letchworth which is 15 miles away from me and Hilltop is 90 miles away.

So what so special about Hilltop, that would demand I ride the additional distance?

 

[Beemerman59]

There are a number of places that offer rolling road tuning, but from what I've read on here, everyone seems to go to Hilltop.

Why ?

Does Hilltop have a special BMW map?
Is Hilltop the only firm that can map BMW?

The reason I ask, is that there is a rolling road in Letchworth which is 15 miles away from me and Hilltop is 90 miles away.

So what so special about Hilltop, that would demand I ride the additional distance?

I have no idea if anyone else has the necessary map and experience for the 1200's, I went with the flow due to the experiences posted up in this thread. Have you asked the Letchworth mob if they could do it?