Nunkie
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eh?
I mean oh dear it looks like I'm going to have to start saving up my pension !
Remap by Hilltop Motorcycles
- Thread starter Roberto
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I mean oh dear it looks like I'm going to have to start saving up my pension !
Ah! Got you now! I can only speak for myself, but I'm very impressed; I think you will be too, let us know how you get on? Cheers fella! 
Just had the bike over to hill top and can only echo all the positive comments. Bike a lot smoother at motorway speed, 6th gear pick up particularly impressive. 
What I like the most is the low speed low revs throttle response. Gone is the jerky, on/off throttle action making it a lot easier to pull away smoothly, negotiate/filter in heavy traffic. It's just a lot nicer to ride with noticeably more pull in each gear. All in all very happy.
Just for info the rear wheel power is now 103 and torque 83. Up from 81 and 60.
What I like the most is the low speed low revs throttle response. Gone is the jerky, on/off throttle action making it a lot easier to pull away smoothly, negotiate/filter in heavy traffic. It's just a lot nicer to ride with noticeably more pull in each gear. All in all very happy.Just for info the rear wheel power is now 103 and torque 83. Up from 81 and 60.
i had mine done last week ,i am not going to go on about all the blah blah ,you know it all ,all i can say 350 quid well spent a real marked improvement 
Big Lee
Registered user
King Key
Registered user
It would be interesting to see a 'before' and 'after' dyno run.
90.51 bhp and 71.96 of torque. at the start of the day
99.06 bhp and 83.69 torques. when he had finished
so thats 8.55 bhp and 11.73 torques increase.
most of all alot smoother
its a 2009 with ten thousand miles on
and i think those are realistic increases
99.06 bhp and 83.69 torques. when he had finished
so thats 8.55 bhp and 11.73 torques increase.
most of all alot smoother
its a 2009 with ten thousand miles on
and i think those are realistic increases
I reckon if Geoff had a 'seat of the pants' graph as opposed to a dyno this wouldn't have got to 70 pages
Similar has already been posted on this thread - take an hour or two to look. I have a before and after graph showing the power and torque gains for my bike following the remap and made 20% for both.
Before anyone disputes that please go back and read all the posts and make your own mind up. You won't change anyone elses opinion on the matter, either the people who had had it done or the cynics who haven't. As so many people have said though, the numbers are unimportant compared to the way the bike behaves in real life conditions, and in my case, the bike is a completely different animal, so much so, I've made the decision not to bother going the WC route. Not yet anyway....
Bloody well said!!!
Experience and expertise?
Bendy toy
Registered user
The bike is naturally aspirated but un-naturally strangled by BMW bending over backwards to keep the EU regulators happy. Ducati and Aprilia dont bother to anything like the same extent so who knows why BMW think is so important to be so careful.
The engine hasn't gained 25% its just not losing it any more.
The engine hasn't gained 25% its just not losing it any more.
What complete and utter bollocks. You really need to get out more
he's actually near enough correct
since the introduction of regulations The bikes tended not to be tuned to extract the best performance More to make them comply so the company is not fined!
Does anywhere else do the drive by @ X thousand rpm noise test for example?
old K bikes used to have a wee dip in performance around this 2500rpm mark
In basic terms Hilltop is moving all the parameters around so that the best power /torque outputs are achieved in the widest range of usage
since the introduction of regulations The bikes tended not to be tuned to extract the best performance More to make them comply so the company is not fined!
Does anywhere else do the drive by @ X thousand rpm noise test for example?
old K bikes used to have a wee dip in performance around this 2500rpm mark
In basic terms Hilltop is moving all the parameters around so that the best power /torque outputs are achieved in the widest range of usage
Big Lee
Registered user
Well looking around at different makers bikes for the same capacity bikes they are all in the same ball park re bhp and torque at about the same revs, the sports bikes have a high bhp figure due to their rev limits being much higher than the likes of a GS. A 25% power hike from a remap is imo a liberal application of snake oil and a rolling road tweak IMO. As a young lad I had a Cavalier SRi "tuned" and was told it was up from 115bhp to 160 bhp and shown the dyno. That was drivel as well. To get those %`s of power gains for the cost and minimal parts replacing and rev ceilings raised is afaik only possible on turbo vehicles where the boost, fuelling and timing is re done. Even some of the headline power figure for those are dubious due to a power spike high up the revs rather than a nice power and torque curve.
I`m no expert but have been fiddling with and getting various turbo deisel and petrol cars for the past 25 years remapped by reputable tuning companies. I did get my fingers burned once with a pug 205 1.9 GTI with getting head work, exhaust and remap and it was supposed to be 160 but only gained an actual 10 bhp from the oe of 130.
I stand by my opinion that the only way to cheaply get those % increase for such cash can only be done on forced induction vehicles. No way can you get a 22bhp increase by only remapping a standard condition GS that is running properly to begin with
Big Lee
Registered user
Heres a link to a dyno run for 2 GS`es and a Tiger Explorer. Just for interest and to compare with any others that might appear on here
http://www.ashonbikes.com/sites/default/files/ash_images/articles/120225/Triumph_Explorer_38.jpg
http://www.ashonbikes.com/sites/default/files/ash_images/articles/120225/Triumph_Explorer_38.jpg
No way can you get a 22bhp increase by only remapping a standard condition GS that is running properly to begin with
And there lies the answer old bean I don't think half of them run right They are a mass produced bundle of schite in respect of quality control and materials selected
MANY YEARS AGO I argued with my dad that my performance enhancements would make a difference and would give me higher mpg as the engine would be burning the fuel correctly and at better ratios!
1275 mini +60 1 and 3/4 SU Megadyne 286 cam Aldon distributor oversize valves and a centre main strap and pick up
Previously approx 30 to 35 mpg at 50 ~ 55 on a 100 mile run, with the add ons I saw 45 mpg on the same run with maybe 5 ~ 10 minutes of spirited driving included
It was just so relaxed to drive afterwards and you simply didn't have to push the pedal as far to achieve the same acceleration or hold speed
Basically they are mass produced but you cannot build a 100,000 vehicles and have 2 exactly the same so that is why a general "acceptable" level of tuning is usually taken
The Bottom line is that the customer is happy and accepts that the bike performs much better and is easier to ride Figures are really immaterial aren't they?
Bendy toy
Registered user
My old Metro 1275 had a ported head that I did to Dave Vizard's spec. It was a relatively simple matter of grinding out excess metal that remained due to casting tolerances of the time. I also fitted a long centre branch exhaust and ported the 1.5" SU carburetor to Vizard's spec which made it flow considerably more without messing up the low speed gas flow.
The engine spun like a bike engine and went like a rocket. I was shifting up much later because there was so much more power at high revs. mpg also improved. I had to really work it hard to get less mpg than before the work was done.
Modern engines with better quality control and closer tolerances would have all of those porting "mods" as standard. The manufacturer then adjusts performance parameters in the ECU map to suit the prevailing rules and regs. Some companies are more fussy than others, but the net result is sub optimal power and fuel economy. Those with multiple maps (like the new GS) can be more flexible overall.
Japanese 2 valve engines generally made around 100bhp per litre (at the crank) Yamaha for example 60bhp and 90bhp for the Diversions and 120 for the FJ1200. These were not high revving screamers. Even the old Kawasaki Z1 900 was close to 90bhp. On this level the R1200 with its modern design, four valves and big pistons should be capable of 110bhp at the crank. 120 would be nice but its probably not cammed for top end power.
Funnily enough about 110 (crank) bhp is what Hilltop extract from a Hexhead 1200 boxer. 10% to 15% is lost in the transmission. The engine seems to be especially restricted in the ECU so a good dyno operator can make these seemingly amazing improvements.
The engine spun like a bike engine and went like a rocket. I was shifting up much later because there was so much more power at high revs. mpg also improved. I had to really work it hard to get less mpg than before the work was done.
Modern engines with better quality control and closer tolerances would have all of those porting "mods" as standard. The manufacturer then adjusts performance parameters in the ECU map to suit the prevailing rules and regs. Some companies are more fussy than others, but the net result is sub optimal power and fuel economy. Those with multiple maps (like the new GS) can be more flexible overall.
Japanese 2 valve engines generally made around 100bhp per litre (at the crank) Yamaha for example 60bhp and 90bhp for the Diversions and 120 for the FJ1200. These were not high revving screamers. Even the old Kawasaki Z1 900 was close to 90bhp. On this level the R1200 with its modern design, four valves and big pistons should be capable of 110bhp at the crank. 120 would be nice but its probably not cammed for top end power.
Funnily enough about 110 (crank) bhp is what Hilltop extract from a Hexhead 1200 boxer. 10% to 15% is lost in the transmission. The engine seems to be especially restricted in the ECU so a good dyno operator can make these seemingly amazing improvements.
I stand by my opinion that the only way to cheaply get those % increase for such cash can only be done on forced induction vehicles. No way can you get a 22bhp increase by only remapping a standard condition GS that is running properly to begin with
Luckily, for those of us who have actually been through this in reality, it is only your opinion.
Delboy777
Registered user
+1 with the above, all modern engines are tuned to a medium and therefore dont operate at their best without some fettling. I want my bike to be as good as it can be so therefore i will go down the PC5 route and have set up on a dyno, then i know that MY engine is tuned to the best it can be. No doubt Hilltop could do my ECU but im not taking it off sending it away just to have a "Generic" type map flashed onto it. If Geoff wasnt as far away as he is from me i would have it done on the dyno at Hilltop.
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