Rough running finaly sorted.

[gerarddwatts]

Hope you have more success than me then!

Don't really know what to do next?

Put them on, bit fiddly but not too bad, started bike, bit lumpy for a sec and was then idling at about 3000 rpm and gradually getting faster until I turned it off at about 5.5-6k rpm. Tried blipping the throttle to help it settle down but just kept idling faster. So gave up and pondered.

Went back to it today, checked wiring, started up and again idle speed gradually increased until I turned it off at nearly 6k rpm.

Now off and in a bag waiting for me to decide what to do next! Started bike after removal, idled a bit fast at first and then dropped to normal.

 

[comberjohn]

Quick Keith, make him a bad offer!
Not sure what the problem would be but can't see how they would make the engine run that much faster. At worst, if faulty, they might make the fueling very rich or very weak, but I don't think that's how they work anyway. To make an engine run like that, you need more air as well.
Now, snagging a throttle cable while installing it might...?
You would be running the wires close to where the throttle cables run and maybe you've moved or caught on something.
If that's not the case, contact Beemer Boneyard or Roger on this forum. They're very helpful and, if it is an issue with the units, they'll be keen to find out what the problem is.

 

[Gordon T]

Even if they were faulty how can they make the engine rev so high? They dont control the revs just the fuel mixture. Sounds like they have been installed ok but something has been moved/budged/knocked out of sync somewhere along the line. Throttle cable?



EDIT; Someone got there before me!

 

[younger06]

Quick Keith, make him a bad offer!
Not sure what the problem would be but can't see how they would make the engine run that much faster. At worst, if faulty, they might make the fueling very rich or very weak, but I don't think that's how they work anyway. To make an engine run like that, you need more air as well.
Now, snagging a throttle cable while installing it might...?
You would be running the wires close to where the throttle cables run and maybe you've moved or caught on something.
If that's not the case, contact Beemer Boneyard or Roger on this forum. They're very helpful and, if it is an issue with the units, they'll be keen to find out what the problem is.

Jaysus John, you must have me pegged as some sort of a "vulture fund"

Sent using hocus pocus........... boo!

 

[gerarddwatts]

So you did'nt see the bit where I said it ran normally after I took them off?

Nothing snagged, caught or disturbed....other than me...

 

[Mistacat]

I take it that this is not an LC bike but a cable operated throttle.
If you have access to a GS911 it would be good to see what the idle actuator settings were during this high RPM (idle).
If the TPS reading was 0% at this (idle) I cant see any other way apart from idle actuators that you would get enough air to reach the conditions stated if everything else is ok.
I have used the AF-XIED`s for over 2 years - 25k miles with great results.

 

[Mistacat]

As an afterthought try the units on another bike.
These units seem to be able to amplify an existing fault.
Example a friend fitted the XEID`s to his 1200GS , then starter circuit would not work. (this was completely illogical).
If the starter circuit was by-passed ( jump wire onto the solenoid) the bike started and ran ok.
Disconnected either one of the XIED`s and bike started. Tried them on another bike no problem with the units.
I load tested the relevant points on the wiring loom and re-made the ground connections but could not find a problem.
Refitted the XIED`s the starter circuit worked fine and the bike has not had a problem since.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Hope you have more success than me then!

Don't really know what to do next?

Put them on, bit fiddly but not too bad, started bike, bit lumpy for a sec and was then idling at about 3000 rpm and gradually getting faster until I turned it off at about 5.5-6k rpm. Tried blipping the throttle to help it settle down but just kept idling faster. So gave up and pondered.

Went back to it today, checked wiring, started up and again idle speed gradually increased until I turned it off at nearly 6k rpm.

Now off and in a bag waiting for me to decide what to do next! Started bike after removal, idled a bit fast at first and then dropped to normal.

Gerard, Clearly that was a very frustrating experience, and I saw that when you took them off operation returned to normal. With what you experienced, taking them off to re-establish your baseline was them smart thing to do. It won't help you, but in thousands of installations, I've never heard those symptoms.

What year and model R1200 did you install them on?

That said, there is no real mechanism by which the O2 sensor input, no matter what is connected, could cause the engine RPM to increase to 6000 RPM. The reason is, that to increase RPM by more than about 100 RPM, you must add more air to the engine. That means, that somehow, you must have moved or snagged or stretched a throttle cable and opened on of the throttles.

My suggestion is that you try reinstalling them again, taking care to avoid disturbing the throttle cable. Before starting the engine, with key on, make sure you get 7 flashes on each of your AF-XIEDs. If you don't, stop there.
RB

 

[comberjohn]

You could try just plugging the units into the connectors under the heads without actually running the cables. Let the units just lie on the floor.
That way, if the bike runs normally, you'll know that you've had a 'dooh' moment. Don't forget to connect the ground wire. I connected mine directly to the battery.
I seem to remember something in Roger's original thread that a good earth was essential. Although I may be thinking of something else.

 

[gerarddwatts]

Thanks for advice....I had already decided to do what CJ has suggested, and I will try it.

It was a bit unnerving watching the rpm climb very slowly without any input from me...surely if a cable had been snagged it would be running fast from the get go? I am confident this was not the case.

'09 1200GS. Earthed to battery.

I realise lots have been fitted without probs, which is why I will have another go.

I started it last night and it was ticking over normally....sans 'bits'.....

Perplexing.

 

[Bendy toy]

My 08 with a Power Commander V sometimes ticks over fast (2000 rpm maybe). It never did before I fitted the PCV. I reconnected everything and made sure all wires were safe. I also used self amalgamating tape on connectors. It has happened again but not so badly. Normally its all fine. I suspect it only ever happened in wet weather but its now settled down so can't be sure.

As others say I have no idea how it could do this as the PCV has no connection to throttles or idle solenoids.

To get a good idea the throttles are closing correctly, flick the wist grip and listed to each throttle body. You should hear the click as the throttle valves close. No click means its stuck open or at least should be checked out.

 

[comberjohn]

Any joy, Gerard?

 

[gerarddwatts]

Any joy, Gerard?

No tried again yet....deciding whether or not to do so before I set off for France at the end of the month or to leave well alone til I get back....

 

[gerarddwatts]

No tried again yet....deciding whether or not to do so before I set off for France at the end of the month or to leave well alone til I get back....

So.....

Finally installed them last week. bike started and ticked over as per normal.

Unable to ride it since due to weather/work....until today.

120 miles around coast...Montrose, Arbroath etc..super run in the sun

A significant improvement. Smoother, much more tractable, no hesitation or surges at town speeds. Pulls better in top gears too.

Better? Hell yes.

Worth it? Hell yes.

No dramatic changes I suppose, but just the bike as it should have been in the first place.

What the strory was the first couple of tries, I've simply no idea!

 

[oldnfat]

Glad you finally got there.

I am now about 2000 miles in since fitting the AF XIED to my TC GSA. Just come back from Bavaria with a few other lads including a guy who works in sales for a BMW Motorrad dealer. He had a TC as well ( like me he prefers it over the WC). His is stock....we swapped bikes just to compare and I have to say I was surprised at the difference and couldn't wait to get back to mine.

The smoothness, power delivery, control and sheer grunt all made the standard bike seem.....well a bit shonky to be honest. The difference was so marked that the guy who rode my bike ordered the AF at our next lunch stop.

So, I am a very happy customer. Easy to fit, great results and can be taken off easily come time to sell. Highly recommended.

 

[comberjohn]

Glad to hear you got sorted, Gerard.
I was told that it can take up to 1000 miles before the ECU is fully adapted but you do notice a difference fairly quickly. Think I've about 7-8000 miles on mine since fitting and I just love the tractability the engine now has.
Around town is just so effortless with the ability to short shift at 2-2500 rpm.
Nice story, oldnfat. Interesting to hear about someone seeing the light!

 

[oldnfat]

Thanks Comberjohn....it was really interesting....we did some role on tests on the dual carriageway where we were doing 60 mph in 6th then pinned the throttle.....my bike left the standard TC standing...by 90mph I was a good 150 yards up.

 

[Bendy toy]

I went for a used Power Commander but while the improvement is great it runs open loop (O2 sensors are removed), needs a rolling road to get properly set up and then it wont cope if you fit or remove baffles. The AF-XIED is a much better option.

 

[Mistacat]

Totally agree, I used a power commander v and autotune purchased second hand. Used it for 18 months but could never get it to settle, plugged the laptop in every morning whilst touring and tweaking settings.
This was whilst following the AF-Xied development. I have had an innovate LC1 for over 10 years so i am very happy with the theory of lambda offsets but a pair of LC1`s on the 1200 would have been a bit bulky.
Sold the PCV & autotune to pay for the AF-XIED setup as soon as they came on the market, that was 30K miles ago.
These are fit and forget have logged AFR data on several settings with a Dual band Innovate LM2 and settled for setting 7 on both the Mk2 & Mk3 1200Gs.
I checked it again the other day and the graphs still show perfect fueling.

 

[oldnfat]

Yep, use mine in position 7 with decat headers and stock can.....great set up. I also tried the PC5 but got fed up with dodgy wet weather running....the AF Xeid units are better by some margin as they are using the full capability of the bikes brain.

.....and at the risk of getting hate mail I would say it is now at least as good, if not better than my Hilltopped TC I had previously (albeit from an 18 month old memory)....seriously good bit of kit for less than the price of a decent end can.