Rough running issue - Still not bloody sorted.....

[commandoallan]

Probably a booster plug. May be worth removing it and seeing what happens. I think they just tell the ecu it's 20°c colder or something similar. Read in a thread on here the fuel injection system can adapt them out. Fingers cross you find the problem! And it's a cheap fix!

Not read about the fuel system adapting out the spoofer, seems strange that something that fools the ecu via the airbox temp sensor can be adapted out by the ecu. How does the ecu know it is a spoofer in line and that the actual air temp is not the 20 degrees lower?

Would be interested to know more about this for the future.

 

[commandoallan]

Buy, beg, borrow or steal a GS911. Hook it up and go to real time values. Then select one of the likely areas that could be causing your fault - ONE AT A TIME and zoom in by upping the sample rate to maximum. Then look at the real time read out very carefully. Where there is a sensor each side they should be the same or opposites. Where it is a single sensor then the readout should be in line with expectations and no unexpected fluctuations or variances.

I had rough running on my 2011 GSA and eventually diagnosed the throttle position sensor using the above technique - there were the tiniest blips in the readout only visable on max zoom.

Good luck.

I've got a gs911 and hooked it up several times to see what is happening, nothing jumps out at me but I will obviously give it another go with one value at a time on max sampling. Any idea where I can get a baseline set of values to compare against?

I understand all bikes values will be slightly different but at least it will give me an idea.

 

[theoneandonly]

so.....you've been on this for 6 months , i admire your tenacity.

 

[Santa-2512]

Hey Santa,

Not exactly, the intermittent issue was there before I fitted the spoofer and is still there after, I can dial different settings one of which is the standard setting with no temp spoof to fool the ecu but could always remove completely if required.

Yes I will redial to zero then check the zorst temps again, dont think they will change much as I still think the RHS cylinder has the issue. Now got a compression tester on order so when I receive that will give it a go.

Personally i'd strip the spoofer out,

That way you start with a level base line.

If you do make any changes, only change one thing at a time, otherwise you wont know what changes made a difference (if any)

Use Farkoffs guide as a start point, and go from there.

Once you've done that, you can then swap suspected components side to side to see if the fault follows a component, or setting.

Also if you have a gs 911, download the mapping software and use that to generate real time maps from your captured data,

that way you can see if you have unexpected blips where non should be

 

[AustinW]

Any idea where I can get a baseline set of values to compare against?

I understand all bikes values will be slightly different but at least it will give me an idea.

Try the Hexcode site https://www.hexcode.co.za/

 

[topcat2006]

Have you done a compression test yet?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

 

[botus]

Evening All,

I have had issues with my 2008 GSA since purchased for two years, the issue originally between 4000- 5000 RPM on A roads around 70 ish....:

is this a hex head or twin cam and what part number is the engine map?

the map at the start of 2008 on a hex head was great.. the later one mid 2008 was a stinking pile of shit that does the square root of NOTHING at 4000 to 5000 rpm

and cannons don't know what they are doing

 

[DrFarkoff]

Got a laser/ infra red thermometer which has given the results so I think the RHS cylinder is running at nearly half the temp of the left. Will read temps again as per your instructions and record the results.

Will also disconnect the lambda's and see what happens (obviously with the gizmo set at zero or removed).

There is the Problem Right there !! It should be running within say 20 degrees of the other chamber

Why is it running half temp Is the Next question you want answered

Do Not remove Spoofer

Change nothing else !!

Just Disconnect the Lamda's

And test again

If no change? Do a Compression test Before you do anything else!!

If you have a large variance between the sides?

Recheck valve clearances, Rotate the engine in the normal direction of rotation with the rockers covers off

Watch the Inlet valves Open and then close and use a 10mm wooden dowel in through main the plug hole to verify your TDC position and Set the rocker end float and then the rocker arm to valve clearances on that side

Remember to rotate the engine just short of one full turn watching the inlet valves on the other side close and then verify that you are at TDC with the dowel in that plug hole and do the other side


If you have reasonable compression between cylinders ???

Move Items from Right cylinder to left cylinder ONE AT A TIME

if the temperature fault moves to the other cylinder ???

The last thing you moved is faulty

Stick coils Upper first then if no change leave the 2 main ones in there

 

[Santa-2512]

There is the Problem Right there !! It should be running within say 20 degrees of the other chamber

Why is it running half temp Is the Next question you want answered Agree

Do Not remove Spoofer Disagree, The spoofer is an unknown variable - it may be broken thus giving erronious data to the fueling circuit - better to remove and get a base line . the spoofer can then be refitted to see what if any effect is has

Change nothing else !! - Agree

Just Disconnect the Lamda's Agree

And test again

If no change? Do a Compression test Before you do anything else!!

If you have a large variance between the sides?

Recheck valve clearances, Rotate the engine in the normal direction of rotation with the rockers covers off

Watch the Inlet valves Open and then close and use a 10mm wooden dowel in through main the plug hole to verify your TDC position and Set the rocker end float and then the rocker arm to valve clearances on that side

Remember to rotate the engine just short of one full turn watching the inlet valves on the other side close and then verify that you are at TDC with the dowel in that plug hole and do the other side


If you have reasonable compression between cylinders ???

Move Items from Right cylinder to left cylinder ONE AT A TIME Agree - possibly the most important thing

if the temperature fault moves to the other cylinder ???

The last thing you moved is faulty

Stick coils Upper first then if no change leave the 2 main ones in there

+1

There is the Problem Right there !! It should be running within say 20 degrees of the other chamber

Why is it running half temp Is the Next question you want answered Agree

Do Not remove Spoofer Disagree, The spoofer is an unknown variable - it may be broken thus giving erronious data to the fueling circuit - better to remove and get a base line . the spoofer can then be refitted to see what if any effect is has

Change nothing else !! - Agree

Just Disconnect the Lamda's Agree

And test again

If no change? Do a Compression test Before you do anything else!!

If you have a large variance between the sides?

Recheck valve clearances, Rotate the engine in the normal direction of rotation with the rockers covers off

Watch the Inlet valves Open and then close and use a 10mm wooden dowel in through main the plug hole to verify your TDC position and Set the rocker end float and then the rocker arm to valve clearances on that side

Remember to rotate the engine just short of one full turn watching the inlet valves on the other side close and then verify that you are at TDC with the dowel in that plug hole and do the other side


If you have reasonable compression between cylinders ???

Move Items from Right cylinder to left cylinder ONE AT A TIME Agree - possibly the most important thing

if the temperature fault moves to the other cylinder ???

The last thing you moved is faulty

Stick coils Upper first then if no change leave the 2 main ones in there

+1

There is the Problem Right there !! It should be running within say 20 degrees of the other chamber

Why is it running half temp Is the Next question you want answered Agree

Do Not remove Spoofer Disagree, The spoofer is an unknown variable - it may be broken thus giving erronious data to the fueling circuit - better to remove and get a base line . the spoofer can then be refitted to see what if any effect is has

Change nothing else !! - Agree

Just Disconnect the Lamda's Agree

And test again

If no change? Do a Compression test Before you do anything else!!

If you have a large variance between the sides?

Recheck valve clearances, Rotate the engine in the normal direction of rotation with the rockers covers off

Watch the Inlet valves Open and then close and use a 10mm wooden dowel in through main the plug hole to verify your TDC position and Set the rocker end float and then the rocker arm to valve clearances on that side

Remember to rotate the engine just short of one full turn watching the inlet valves on the other side close and then verify that you are at TDC with the dowel in that plug hole and do the other side


If you have reasonable compression between cylinders ???

Move Items from Right cylinder to left cylinder ONE AT A TIME Agree - possibly the most important thing

if the temperature fault moves to the other cylinder ???

The last thing you moved is faulty

Stick coils Upper first then if no change leave the 2 main ones in there

Indded but i disagree on somethings

There is the Problem Right there !! It should be running within say 20 degrees of the other chamber

Why is it running half temp Is the Next question you want answered Agree

Do Not remove Spoofer Disagree, The spoofer is an unknown variable - it may be broken thus giving erronious data to the fueling circuit - better to remove and get a base line . the spoofer can then be refitted to see what if any effect is has

Change nothing else !! - Agree

Just Disconnect the Lamda's Agree

And test again

If no change? Do a Compression test Before you do anything else!!

If you have a large variance between the sides?

Recheck valve clearances, Rotate the engine in the normal direction of rotation with the rockers covers off

Watch the Inlet valves Open and then close and use a 10mm wooden dowel in through main the plug hole to verify your TDC position and Set the rocker end float and then the rocker arm to valve clearances on that side

Remember to rotate the engine just short of one full turn watching the inlet valves on the other side close and then verify that you are at TDC with the dowel in that plug hole and do the other side


If you have reasonable compression between cylinders ???

Move Items from Right cylinder to left cylinder ONE AT A TIME Agree - possibly the most important thing

if the temperature fault moves to the other cylinder ???

The last thing you moved is faulty

Stick coils Upper first then if no change leave the 2 main ones in there

+1

There is the Problem Right there !! It should be running within say 20 degrees of the other chamber

Why is it running half temp Is the Next question you want answered Agree

Do Not remove Spoofer Disagree, The spoofer is an unknown variable - it may be broken thus giving erronious data to the fueling circuit - better to remove and get a base line . the spoofer can then be refitted to see what if any effect is has

Change nothing else !! - Agree

Just Disconnect the Lamda's Agree

And test again

If no change? Do a Compression test Before you do anything else!!

If you have a large variance between the sides?

Recheck valve clearances, Rotate the engine in the normal direction of rotation with the rockers covers off

Watch the Inlet valves Open and then close and use a 10mm wooden dowel in through main the plug hole to verify your TDC position and Set the rocker end float and then the rocker arm to valve clearances on that side

Remember to rotate the engine just short of one full turn watching the inlet valves on the other side close and then verify that you are at TDC with the dowel in that plug hole and do the other side


If you have reasonable compression between cylinders ???

Move Items from Right cylinder to left cylinder ONE AT A TIME Agree - possibly the most important thing

if the temperature fault moves to the other cylinder ???

The last thing you moved is faulty

Stick coils Upper first then if no change leave the 2 main ones in there

 

[DrFarkoff]

Santa the spoofer is just a resistance to fool the bike ECU into thinking that the air intake is MUCH colder than t really is to enrichen the mixture

and it Cannot influence fuelling differently across the two injectors

One value for the two

So it is immaterial regarding the temperature imbalance


Besides it was fitted long before the issues

I suspect lower compression after seeing how schite the seal was on my exhaust valves the other day

 

[Pukmeister]

I suspect lower compression after seeing how schite the seal was on my exhaust valves the other day

(Its either fuel, compression, spark or timing.)

If its compression, it needs sorting ASAP before it self-destructs. Definitely the first thing to prove/disprove.

 

[commandoallan]

Thanks all, will have a look over the weekend then do the compression test early next week when the tester arrives.

 

[Santa-2512]

Santa the spoofer is just a resistance to fool the bike ECU into thinking that the air intake is MUCH colder than t really is to enrichen the mixture

and it Cannot influence fuelling differently across the two injectors

One value for the two

So it is immaterial regarding the temperature imbalance


Besides it was fitted long before the issues

I suspect lower compression after seeing how schite the seal was on my exhaust valves the other day

Sorry about the multiple repeats fat fingers

Yes i get what your saying about the spoofer,

But thats assuming its working & wired in correctly..

I work on the maxim of anything in a circuit or set up thats not standard adds noise ..

That noise will usually generate more noise which more often than not will lead you off on a tangent.

For me, id run the tests as stock and fit the spoofer and repeat ...

Its like the signal boosters for low tv reception areas, yes they boost the signal, but also the noise and degredation

so he may have a minor problem, amplfied by somthing fitted inline to reslove / boost something else, which gives a bigger problem by amplifiying a parameter or part thats allready failing or at its operating limits

It's like the wheeltapper tapping every wheel and finding them defective, after scrapping a whole days production someone tests his hammer to find it's the hammer thats cracked

 

[MWH]

I read about the booster plugs being adapted out on one of the AF Xied's threads, Think it was roger4 ot that mentioned it. As someone else said it gives one value that's shared by the two so probably isn't the issue. I generally like to start from a standard baseline to eliminate faults.

 

[commandoallan]

So I removed the lambda sensors and took out for a 5 mile ride, the first thing I noticed was the change is both the engine and exhaust noise. The engine sounded more agricultural and a high end tapping sound, the exhaust sounded raw and although the engine had power it actually felt raw....Not as smooth as before even with the issue.

I then took temps of the two cylinders and the temps were roughly as before with no noticeable changes due to removing the lambda's i.e. RHS around 250 degrees and LHS around 460 degrees.

Next step I reinstated the lambda's and took temps again with the same results.

I then took out both primary coils, the RHS primary coil had some clean oil on the outside of the stick, not a lot but noticeable.. The left coil did not (after a 5 mile run, part of it at speed).

I swapped the coils and took temps again, I noticed that the LHS cylinder remained as before.

The RHS cylinder which I held the laser thermometer on for quite a while went up and down...Went up to 420 degrees a couple of times (LHS was stable at 460 ish), and then went down to below 200 degrees at times, it wasn't a cycle as such but slow and erratic with no discernible rhythm.

The average temp of the RHS cylinder was still roughly half that of the LHS.

Will do the compression test next week when I receive the new tester.

 

[Pukmeister]

If you have oil on a stick coil, you might have a leaking gas seal ring on a spark plug (which would also cause low compression). In fairness, its probably the rocker gasket weeping a bit but......

For the sake of ten minutes with a spark plug spanner, why not nip up all your spark plugs ??

 

[DrFarkoff]

Have you zapped anyone else's exhaust headers on a 1200GS of a similar age to yours?

 

[Santa-2512]

Ill go and do mine now and get back to you





Oops slight problem, my bloody battery in the probe was flat, so the readings went a bit skewed -

I'll let the bike cool and do them again lol

Temps i got were

Facing the bike LH Headlight RH

Cold 15.2 17.6
Startup 40 49

Then it started to give overtemp errors at 178 degrees so i need a new battery and my probe only goes to 220c

so may not be any use but i'll get a new battery later and give it a go

 

[Santa-2512]

Well like a plum, i went shopping ,and forgot to get a bloody battery lol

I had a quick trawl through my xcel files when i had my rough running propblem


may not help because it only covers engine & cylinder head temps , but the data is as follows


Engine temp started at

ET CYH1 CYH2
21.75 22.5 22.5 Engine not running

21.75 23.25 23.25 Engine start

The engine temp rose and fell throughout the ride with a peak of 99c recorded


Cylinder heads were as follows

Low CH1 22.5 Low CH2 22.5

High CH1 114.75 High CH2 114.75


There was no difference anywhere between them during the run

Cy1 Mirrored Cy 2

 

[commandoallan]

If you have oil on a stick coil, you might have a leaking gas seal ring on a spark plug (which would also cause low compression). In fairness, its probably the rocker gasket weeping a bit but......

For the sake of ten minutes with a spark plug spanner, why not nip up all your spark plugs ??

Took the coils out again ready to do the compression test.....But the plum I am bought a tester that is 14mm not 12mm so now have to buy an adapter. Looking at a 200mm long reach effort that goes down from 14mm female to 12 & 10mm male. Think this adapter will do the trick but knowing my luck the walls may be too thick????

Anyhoo....About to put the plugs back in so will nip them up a little tighter this time and see what happens.