RT cruise control on a GSA

[Nin]

Hi folks

Just toying with the idea - has anyone tried fitting the TC RT cruise onto a GS/A?

Any pointers gratefully received!

 

[BillyBoxer6]

Following with great interest.....

 

[__YANNICK__]

I love this. I've been wanting to install cruise control onto my 2008 F650 Twin but ended with cramp buster(, which are great).
I imagine compatibility could be different here, but very interested in the above too

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[dicktheleg]

I’d be interested to know too, it’s a n electronic / mechanical cruise on the TC.

I don’t have it on my GS TC so I’ve fitted a Kaoko control, seems to work well and I like that you can just use it to slightly stiffen the twist grip to take out any surging in low gears in rough terrain.

On my recently sold 2020 RT1250 the cruise would work down to 5mph but the older mechanical ones won’t set until about 30mph.

 

[MWH]

I've often wondered this. There is/was an aftermarket system available

https://www.mccruise.com/products/b...-our-compact-electric-servo?variant=869308333

Not cheap though.

 

[Nin]

I fitted a McCruise unit on my Pan European - it worked well but was bloody expensive and took about a day to fit.

Looking into this further it’s very much not a straightforward job, which I guess is why no-one has done it.

Getting the actuator, switches and cables/Bowden box are all pretty simple and about £200 ish for used parts.

Getting the ecu to talk to it is another matter and I’ve no idea how to go about sorting that out. Maybe one for the winter …

 

[BillyBoxer6]

I love the Cruise Control on my FJR, it's one of my favourite things about it

 

[Nin]

A little more digging this morning - I can get the loom off EBay for £50, the RT bike (K26) ECU has the same part no regardless of whether Cruise is fitted or not.

But - the ECU for bikes with ESA, which I have, differs from the K25 model - instead its common with the K40 series (K1300 etc).

So with a leap of faith I’d think the outputs from the ECU should work whether its ESA or not.

I need an auto electrician to teach me how to read ECU outputs now …

Or just go out and ride it, and use the £25 used Atlas throttle lock instead ..

 

[RallyeGS]

Or just go out and ride it, and use the £25 used Atlas throttle lock instead ..

Nailed it

 

[Nin]

This is the actuator, Bowden box (cable splitter) and cables required. There’s an electrical lead from the bowden box that connects to a microswitch inside which I guess gives a position/limit signal back to the actuator.

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[Nin]

Nailed it

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[botus]

I thought of this ages back and bought the loom, switchgear, actuator and cable splitter box off an RT... stripping the hideously built loom is a PITA, getting the centre round pin out the diagnostic socket is a nighmare.... the RT uses this to do fault logic for the cruise (and I guess programming). Cruise wiring in itself is simple, its only a few wires

keep meaning to make a jumper and get muddled trying to land a ZFE High unit on an bike that came with only a ZFE Basic.... but I have given up as I'm dam sure you won't ever code in the RT cruise logic to the a current GS model ZFE, and or as below re all the other fun....

if you like repinning and have both and RT and GSA looms you may get the wires right but the I'm 90% sure you will never find anyone that'll get you the software and comms set up

BMW is just mad - they do not use normal logic and structure - they just add a feature on this model randomly wherever in wiring, and far worse in messy custom software

guaranteed win if somewhere in the world BMW did an air cooled GSA with cruise - but crazily I think they never did... (if they did I would buy the FSC code for cruise from a main delaer - except I don't think they'll sell it !!! - it would cost about £140 and make life easy - but then BM UK will need to train all their staff and have to offer dealer support for a single more than 10 year old bike (so that's never happening) Note they will sell and did to me, the ASC (tractin control) FSC code for about that price - but this had a dealer retrofit option that was always out there since 2009, just as they will add heater grip or aux lights software (later air cooled bikes came from the factory with aux lights diagnostics) ...

- if BM def never did in any glob market - and yet you still think there's a win - potential stumbling blocks...

MUST have the ZFE HIGH twin sockets unit as most of the cruise wiring is on the right plug you don't get on ZFE Basic units

does the cluster support cruise logic - I think it thinks it does but won't - quite a few other models got a cluster of a very familiar size and shape - but I don't think cruise was ever an option on any of them either - this could be the show stopper

for non GSA bikes with mods I suspect the actuator will sit in the tool tray area under the seat - but will then need a custom cable and a way to get a tight 90 degree bend (its done in cars all the time with moulded plastic support around it) - its a massive box

vague anecdotal evidence other's have said a few times - a fuel strip to float change on the RT doesn't work as its ZFE is set up in poss hardware and more likely just in software - I wonder if the code lines got used up for RT cruise where the GSA has the either or fuel strip / float logic (and thus its full and can't take any more programming even if you want to try - let alone had ability to get enabled elsewhere)

you'll get some fun and have to bypass a circuit - all the old bikes with cable operated cruise have both push and pull throttle cables - the other cable is also used for a cruise control operational feature that's only possible with the pull closed throttle cable when its there - should be easy to defeat and its nasty to use anyway - when you tease the throttle cable passed closed it rolls off a few MPH and a more aggressive maneuver past closed is the standard way to turn off cruise - (its horrible so who cares - except your insurer !!!!) either brake light switch, clutch switch or the on off left switch gets it off - if you check the RT throttle cable splitter box, it gets a micro switch - this is what the pull closed cable plays with). NOTE this is likely only possible on later bikes with ABS2 (the same ones that can do ASC)... which in that case means I expect cruise could only go on a bike that has ABS2 to start with - aka from 2007 model year upgrade.... (late 2006 bikes on)

jusy coz you see a tick box in multiple modules using motoscan - don't think that is any use at all - been there done that with ASC
You must somehow get at the bikes network controller and update the VO (vehicle order) to take the cruise option or nothing will communicate round the canbus - this will be fun - if the coding logic does exist then its likely doable if you want 6 months fight as a dev mule with the GS911 guys - as they are trying to bring in VO playtime

assuming it was never a factory option in any global market, getting what should have been a std feature for all markets is going to be fun - no one else will ever help - unless you have a motoradd super tech that's gone rouge and likes to waste time for free - no BMW dealer could help, let alone EVER will at any cost.

Mototscan guy could tell you all the answers to above but never will - I suspect he was bought off by BMW many years ago (through aggressive legal action) - so all he does is build a gadget that complies with EU laws that BMW must make it possible for third party tools to do what a dealer can for diagnostics and standard coding - And that's what his tool is - but he won't do a VO change (or even allow you to see what your VO is). As that's paid for propriety BMW licensed software (that BMW can turn off at any dealer visit if they plug it in (and they like too). Which means motoscan only does the boring stuff the idiots at the dealerships can do - Dealer tools with development mode turned off - they can have deeper access and many more tools for playtime - but they won't do it for you - and these days no dealer tech gets trained on it and all the good old boys have just about gone...

 

[PitaNaanRoti]

Just buy ISTA+ or E-Sys.
Can easily do any VO changes then

 

[botus]

very good - but is the correct software in there to change ? I think not

 

[PitaNaanRoti]

very good - but is the correct software in there to change ? I think not

You do know that ISTA+ and ISTA-D along with E-Sys are the BMW factory software

 

[botus]

of course - the question is what mess is inside the module - if the logic isn't there to play with - no one can turn it on


its all in my post above - a few things like

BMW is just mad - they do not use normal logic and structure - they just add a feature on this or that model randomly wherever in wiring, and far worse in messy customised software

does the cluster design support cruise logic - I think it thinks it does - but won't - quite a few other models got a cluster of a very familiar size and shape - but I don't think cruise was ever an option on any of them either

I wonder if the code lines got used up for RT cruise where the GSA has the either or fuel strip / float logic (and thus its full and can't take any more programming even if you want to try - let alone had ability to get enabled elsewhere)

bike must have ESA to get a ZFE that might programme to cruise logic

 

[knutk]

Since I am a sucker for this kind of projects I ask you to bear with me for chiming in. even if I have never owned a 1200RT, and probably newer will.
But, please allow me to to present my 2c worth....

BMW introduced Cruise Control (CC) way before Canbus was introduced. Hence, the units that where used did not communicate with CANbus type of communication. (Meaning ISTA and eSYS is not doing any good).

When the R1200 engine was introduced, BMW included CANbus to the twin boxer. But, being a small company, they rely on reusing existing parts when possible. Relevant to this project is that they adopted the switch gear from previous models. Then they adopted the electronics and routed the wires from the switchgear to the ZFE. Thus, all the switches are biased with +5V by the ZFE, and hitting a switch will ground it. Soo... an open switch is 5v on the wire, and a closed switch is grounded.

Now, take a look at the diagram below. This is the CC for the 1200CL, which is an older generation. However, I do expect all the mechanical CC units operates in the same way.

A few comments to the diagram:

The fused KL15 connection is switched +12V (Ignition ON).
Hence Input 1,2,3,4, and 6 all get a +12V input as an On input.
Output #9 is probably also +12V, and it drives an CC on indicator,. #5 GND needs no further comments.
Brake light input #7 is probably also +12V.

So far, all the inputs seems fairly straight forward...

Then we have the Speed signal...
It shows a conditioned signal, shared with the 'Turn signal module' (Keep in mind the 1200CL is NOT CANbus).
Whatever these pulses are, there is no external turn signal module on the 1200GS/RT, as this business is handled internally by the ZFE.

So... This means we/You are screwed ?

Not quite. The three pin GPS plug is known to many of us, and we use the wire #1 and #3 in the plug to power accessories on/off with ignition.

Then we have the third wire, that hardly any-one use..
This signal is mainly open (as in not powered) most av the time, and then, it gives a ground signal with duration of 1ms. And it offers 6 1mS ground pulses for each rotation of the rear wheel.

As for adopting a RT switchgear to the GS/A, that is not plug and play, as they are different, perhaps also the diameter of the handlebar, as the GS use a tubular handlebar. The simplest solution would probably be to use regular quality waterproof switches mounted in a customized housing, where a 3D printer will be quite handy. Getting the extra clutch disengage switch will need some hombrew tinkering..

It will take som experimenting to verify the required input voltages, and sort out if +5V will do, or if the full 12V is required for the inputs. (I suspect the 1200RT ZFE has this built in, but I'm not so sure the RT ZFE will adapt to the GS/A.
Also, the speedpulses, duration for each puls, voltage (probably max 5V) and the minimumm/maximum number of pulses that will be accepted needs to be established (Key word: Signal generator).

All this boils down to the need for some electronics knowledge, and tinkering abilities are requred to pull this of...
But I'm sure it may be done.

And the internal switch in the throttle cable box? This is the throttle signal switch. (Twist the throttle forward, passed idle, to disengage the CC)

 

[botus]

... I can't post pics - I don't pay to offer my time and free help for others


but I do have the all the parts and a RT Loom stripped down to cruise basics... so if someone wants to share an email I can get pics to so they post that'll work - and I'll get you which pin is what on the J2 socket and engine multiplug easy enough - and the madness of linked up wires in a ratsfest of a loom

another not that keen due to bad time wasting - is the set speed is only allowed above 36mph and can then drop down to >33mph

so not safe for speed cams in a 30 and can't do the new 20 everywhere - both of which are the main need to have cruise - otherwise aside from ave distance trash and crooked 50 zones - 70% of the rest of the time should always be accelerating to flat out

 

[knutk]

I suspect dreaming about a mix of ZFE and switches from RT will only lead to a major headace as well blowing money into the wind.

I think that the way to go is, as allready suggested, making a diy switch setup and draw speed signal from the GPS connector.

With a bit of luck it may be possible to use the frequency provided as is, but it's not a big deal to make a frequency multiplier...
In order to pull this through I think it takes skills that means no further information is needed beyond the allready provided diagram. This also means having the required testing equipment in order to establish required frequency span and voltage ratings for the inputs...

The advantage of having these skils also means that with a bit of frequency tweaking it is possible to lower the acceptable lowest speed for engagement.

 

[botus]

all the left handlebar switching for cruise on off, and then set speed increase / decrease is seperate wiring and switches - if you want to use the BMW module to hold the cable there or there abouts (to maintain a set speed) - not sure how else other than trying to meet all of BMW safety stuff and specific switching is going to work ? its a 6 or 8 wire sealed aluminum box with no info on how it works or its internal setup?

its like you suggest power, left handlebar switching, two wires to the splitter box for the pull closed throttle cable to interact with, and then links to ABS for the brake light info and I guess speed info, and then I think the engine somewhere (forget not done anything on it for 2 years) - its all 6 to 7 green wires then goes to the 6 or 8 wire cruise actualor multiplug - but the wires all go via the RT righthand J2 ZFE High multiplug - oddly the outside temp sensor swaps plugs running on J2, where my non ZFE High bike only has that on the J1 plug - goodness knows why they had to play musical chairs with that bit ?

The fuel level, Heated strip to Float sensor re pin inputs are all free on the ZFE Basic J1 plug - so odd they need to move the ambient temp across to J2 - and I suspect the reason you can't get J1 only socket bikes to do the Float, is because the logic isn't inside the ZFE Basic module - but could be....

Of course ESA also comes with the need to have the ZFE High, so they did a mix and match bit of looms and logic - when surely comon sense would have been do all of the normal features on J1 and then just Cruise and ESA on J2 - but that might make sense, so they did a bit random anything else - that I suspect isn't even standard between their own models...