RT Discs Low – Options?

[aRTy_Hexhead]

’05 RT 51K under extended BMW warranty.

At recent BMW ‘24K’service (£450 Gulp!).
It was pointed out that all discs were approaching service limit.
To do this the charges would be:

2 front discs + pads £620
Rear disc + pads £290
Front bearings £120.

Any thoughts on replacements:

OEM at motorworks about £200 a disc – bit less for rear.
EBC discs about £100 a disc.
Hekkane discs at Sherlocks about £75 a disc.
Fronts bearings about £20 the pair.

Since these items are not covered under the extended BMW warranty then looking at the alternatives and DIY – had fronts off before now so feel competant to tackle the discs. Would replace all bobbins and washers and new pads, of course.

However, according to Haynes manual, to replace the wheel bearings you need to heat up the front rim to 100C. Is this correct? What with that doesn't damage the paint/laccquer on the rim?
Anybody done these and willing to share their technique?

Any words of wisdom, encouragement and experience MOST welcome.

Cheers

Arty

 

[Mr Bean]

Bought my rear disc and pads from James Sherlock for a lot less than you've been quoted and no problems.

A long Torx bit to undo the disc is helpful

 

[ebbo]

Bought my rear disc and pads from James Sherlock for a lot less than you've been quoted and no problems.

A long Torx bit to undo the disc is helpful

Hekkane discs from Sherlock's is the way I'll be going too.

 

[Watty100]

Check them yourself first

At my bikes 24k service I was also told the front discs were almost beyond the service limit.
I checked them myself when I got home.
They're still on the bike and within tolerance now at 44k.
So I'd suggest not rushing out and spending loads too hastily

 

[JemandSi]

Real budget option would be to go for a pair of good used discs from Motorworks, along with new pads. Have the same on my 1100rt, really impressed with the discs they sent through.

 

[ebbo]

Real budget option would be to go for a pair of good used discs from Motorworks, along with new pads. Have the same on my 1100rt, really impressed with the discs they sent through.

S/hand discs from Motorworks vary from £65-£85 depending on type (floating or none floating), new Hekkane discs from Sherlocks are £72 each for fronts

If your sticking to BMW wear limits you only have .5mm wear from new to worn out, mind you, below min may still pass MOT's and work just fine.

 

[Myke Rocks]

BMW

As both a car and motorcycle manufacturer, this company have a mania for telling their customers that they need new disks.

It appears to be driven by the need to con owners into replacements at extortionate prices.

By the way: why do they wish to replace the wheel bearings as well?

If they are making noises or the front wheel is wobbling, fair enough, otherwise raise a single digit to them.

£100 for a set of front wheel bearings is on the extreme side of extortion.

Myke

 

[Mr Bean]

As both a car and motorcycle manufacturer, this company have a mania for telling their customers that they need new disks.

It appears to be driven by the need to con owners into replacements at extortionate prices.

By the way: why do they wish to replace the wheel bearings as well?

If they are making noises or the front wheel is wobbling, fair enough, otherwise raise a single digit to them.

£100 for a set of front wheel bearings is on the extreme side of extortion.

Myke

Hear what you are saying, but in the absence of any reliable information I'd still rather rely on BMW 's data about disc thickness - and buy aftermarket!

 

[Our Gee]

As both a car and motorcycle manufacturer, this company have a mania for telling their customers that they need new disks.

It appears to be driven by the need to con owners into replacements at extortionate prices.

By the way: why do they wish to replace the wheel bearings as well?

If they are making noises or the front wheel is wobbling, fair enough, otherwise raise a single digit to them.

£100 for a set of front wheel bearings is on the extreme side of extortion.

Myke

Could this be a general trend in the Motor Trade. My daughter recently had a 62,500 mile service carried out on her Ford Focus TDi. I had warned her that she will probably require new front pads as the originals where getting well down. The discs themselves where smooth, unscored and looked in very good shape with only a slight "wear lip" on the edges of about a millimetre. Next time I saw the car ir was sporting new front discs along with new pads. "The Garage Man said it needed them". I can remember having new pads fitted to a Fiat years ago and watched as the "Mechanic" (remember them) carefully removed the lip from the disc edges with an angle grinder before fitting the new pads.

 

[The Grey One]

Could this be a general trend in the Motor Trade. My daughter recently had a 62,500 mile service carried out on her Ford Focus TDi. I had warned her that she will probably require new front pads as the originals where getting well down. The discs themselves where smooth, unscored and looked in very good shape with only a slight "wear lip" on the edges of about a millimetre. Next time I saw the car ir was sporting new front discs along with new pads. "The Garage Man said it needed them". I can remember having new pads fitted to a Fiat years ago and watched as the "Mechanic" (remember them) carefully removed the lip from the disc edges with an angle grinder before fitting the new pads.

The problem is caused by two things, firstly in most garages the mechanics and workshop controller get a bonus if they do more work. Secondly, if the discs really are at or close to the manufacturer's stated minimum they HAVE to tell customers. Not doing so would leave them wide open to people all too willing to sue someone (anyone) rather than take responsibility themselves. Whilst in the real world discs worn slightly below min, spec aren't a problem the garage has no way of knowing that the customer will not overload the vehicle and then go hurtling down some steep hills. If there is a crash and the rider/driver mentions brake problems the insurance company,very likely faced with a huge bill, will investigate. Discs worn below manufacturer's limits would be cause to refuse to pay as the vehicle could be said to not have been properly maintained. The driver/rider is then likely to sue the garage.

When I ran my garage business we measured and recorded disc thickness on every job involving brakes or at every service. The only advice you can give to customers is that discs should be replaced when they are worn to the stated limits. Sadly all such advice is not founded in facts, often, especially in dealerships and fast fit outfits discs and other parts are replaced for the gain of the business and not for the customers safety.

John

 

[The Grey One]

S/hand discs from Motorworks vary from £65-£85 depending on type (floating or none floating), new Hekkane discs from Sherlocks are £72 each for fronts

If your sticking to BMW wear limits you only have .5mm wear from new to worn out, mind you, below min may still pass MOT's and work just fine.

That's just because checking the brakes does not form part of an MOT. The only check is that they work at the time of the test. If the tester can see the discs and pads he can fail them if they are obviously worn etc. He cannot remove anything not even the wheels to gain access. It says on the MOT documents that an MOT is not a statement that the vehicle is roadworthy. It has just passed some, very limited, checks on that day.

Very thin discs will not work as intended in extreme circumstances, the thickness of the metal allows the disc to cope with the heat generated. Very thin discs can't do that and will not perform as they should. Ok they will work fine in normal circumstances but they also need to cope in an emergency. Try telling the mother of the child you hit because your brakes did not work as well as they might just how much you saved by not replacing the discs. obviously this would need extremely worn discs but in my 30 years in the trade I saw some horrors. One that sticks in my mind was a taxi driver would refused to have discs that were way under thickness replaced. He told me to just fit some pads and that his next job was to pick up some schoolchildren. There followed a heated discussion which culminated in a threat of violence if I did not let him take the car to pick the kids. This allowed me to involve the police who came, saw the discs in question. Thankfully that man never drove a taxi again.

As you might have gathered I have little time for those who make up their own rules about what is safe and what is not. If you want to do that stick to using your own private roads, there are enough hazards on the public highway as it is.

John

 

[Mr Bean]

That's just because checking the brakes does not form part of an MOT. The only check is that they work at the time of the test. If the tester can see the discs and pads he can fail them if they are obviously worn etc. He cannot remove anything not even the wheels to gain access. It says on the MOT documents that an MOT is not a statement that the vehicle is roadworthy. It has just passed some, very limited, checks on that day.

Very thin discs will not work as intended in extreme circumstances, the thickness of the metal allows the disc to cope with the heat generated. Very thin discs can't do that and will not perform as they should. Ok they will work fine in normal circumstances but they also need to cope in an emergency. Try telling the mother of the child you hit because your brakes did not work as well as they might just how much you saved by not replacing the discs. obviously this would need extremely worn discs but in my 30 years in the trade I saw some horrors. One that sticks in my mind was a taxi driver would refused to have discs that were way under thickness replaced. He told me to just fit some pads and that his next job was to pick up some schoolchildren. There followed a heated discussion which culminated in a threat of violence if I did not let him take the car to pick the kids. This allowed me to involve the police who came, saw the discs in question. Thankfully that man never drove a taxi again.

As you might have gathered I have little time for those who make up their own rules about what is safe and what is not. If you want to do that stick to using your own private roads, there are enough hazards on the public highway as it is.

John

Many years ago a customer brought in a ring and hub - the pads for whatever reason had worn the discs at an angle and the disc was (literally) wafer thin where it met the hub - his fault for poor maintenance. Lucky it wasn't an emergency stop when it failed.

I would have thought that the designers of the brakes know what wear is safe and acceptable. If they say 5mm new and 4.5mm max wear, that's what I'll go with.

 

[aRTy_Hexhead]

Thanks for information.

Anybody actually used the alternatives?

and

However, according to Haynes manual, to replace the wheel bearings you need to heat up the front rim to 100C. Is this correct? Won't that damage the paint/laccquer on the rim?

Anybody done these and willing to share their technique?

Thanks again - in anticipation of further info/debate.



aRTy

 

[freeloader]

For several years now, I have paid much more attention to disc minimum thickness than before, thanks to a Golf which arrived at the foot of a long descent, FAR too fast to get round the 90 degree bend there. And the discs weren't much under the minimum, either.

The lack of other traffic and an open gate into the stubble field directly ahead of me saved me from having to replace anything other than discs, pads, and underwear...

 

[1964Hall]

I've got about 70,000 on my front discs and they work fine although with a little grabby at slow speed which it's always had. Still on the bike now.

The rear was replaced a couple times by BMW for distortion around 12k then did about 50,000 miles.

I replaced the rear disc with EBC and run EBC HH pads, no problems, from Motorworks.

I also have a spare front wheel which I fitted EBC discs and use EBC HH pads when I use that now.
The EBC discs initially had some grabbyness (like a warped disc), but after about 5,000 miles I noticed they were smooth stoppers, smoother than the OE on the other wheel).

So, your options...
Measure those discs and make up your own mind whether to change them.

If you do, I'd reccomend EBC discs as long as you run the EBC pads with them.

BTW, your looking at around £100 for a full set of bolts, washers and spacers for the front discs. Don't forget you'll need both 2 sets of the flat washers for the front (I did), one goes between disc and wheel, then tother goes between bobbin and washer IIRC (best check).
\v/

 

[1964Hall]

Oh, wheel bearings.
BTW I'm still on the original front wheel bearings at 77k, however I did have to replace the front wheel bearings in my R12ST (same wheel) at 24k. I heated the wheel around the bearing with a standard fan heater for an hr or so before getting out the hot air gun.

Make sure you don't start melting the paint, my guide with absence of thermo reader was my hand, if it was to hot to touch and the paint was still intact that was hot enough for me.
Now knocking out the bearing was a bit of a pain as the spacer tube was a tight fit and same diameter as the bearing inner race. So I could not get a purchase on the inner race to tap it out from other side.

I eventually managed to knock the spacer sidways a tad and you have to be a little brutale to do this, knocked out the bearings both side. Straightened up the spacer washer which locates the spacer central n the hub (cheap uncaoted mild steel thing, mine was all rusty.) coated it in grease and reassembled.
By the way, I also carefully removed the dust seal on one side of the new bearings and made sure I repacked with some grease as some can be a little light on the stuff. refitted seal.
Now I might have over done it, but they worked fine and after wiping off excess after fitting no issues.

HTH
\v/

 

[birdseye]

However, according to Haynes manual, to replace the wheel bearings you need to heat up the front rim to 100C. Is this correct? What with that doesn't damage the paint/laccquer on the rim?
Anybody done these and willing to share their technique?

Any words of wisdom, encouragement and experience MOST welcome.

Cheers

Arty

Unlikely. When alloy wheels stick on cars its quite normal to use kettles of boiling water poured onto the wheel centre to free it off. Wouldnt think twice about doing this on your bike wheels.

Would not use a heat gun - you could easily exceed 100C in localised areas. After all the heat guns are made for paint stripping.