sven
Registered user
Has anyone challenged BMW under the Sales of Goods Act for the cost of replacing the final drive outside the warranty period? It seems to be a latent defect when it's failing on low mileage bikes with full service histories 
Sale of Goods Act and final drives
- Thread starter sven
- Start date
Not that I'm aware of
gwigglesworth
Registered user
Under which part of the Sale of Goods act?
Surely the faulty goods is very tricky on a vehicle as what is acceptable life.... It exists on a car.. but not on a Motorbike in law...happy to be corrected though
Surely the faulty goods is very tricky on a vehicle as what is acceptable life.... It exists on a car.. but not on a Motorbike in law...happy to be corrected though
sven
Registered user
Clause 14 for a start:
2A) For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances..
(2B)For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—.
(a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,.
(b)appearance and finish,.
(c)freedom from minor defects,.
(d)safety, and.
(e)durability..
Failue of a shaft drive within, say, 50k miles means that the drive is not durable IMHO...I'm fairly reasonable
....away you go then, what are you waiting for?
Here's a place to continue your investigations: http://whatconsumer.co.uk/supply-of-goods-and-services-act/
Here's a place to continue your investigations: http://whatconsumer.co.uk/supply-of-goods-and-services-act/
It is decided by a judge, and sometimes they are Human! I know a few solicitors and some of the stuff they can get away with is shocking.
If presenting such a case you may well win, especially with the right judge who may have exactly the same view as you, that is these things should not break so easily.
Then again he may hate bikers and you have had it!!!
Any failure on a vehicle less than 6 months old would allow you to ask for a new machine and not even let them have a go at repairing, beyond 6 months you have to give them a go at fixing it - exactly the same as the rules when you buy a TV etc (or so I was told by an experienced Barrister)
The one thing BMW could probably do very well is drag it out and while it all goes on you have no wheels.
What I would be interested to know is if a group case could be brought that sets a precedent - that would certainly put the willies up the BMW department of shoddy engineering.
If presenting such a case you may well win, especially with the right judge who may have exactly the same view as you, that is these things should not break so easily.
Then again he may hate bikers and you have had it!!!
Any failure on a vehicle less than 6 months old would allow you to ask for a new machine and not even let them have a go at repairing, beyond 6 months you have to give them a go at fixing it - exactly the same as the rules when you buy a TV etc (or so I was told by an experienced Barrister)
The one thing BMW could probably do very well is drag it out and while it all goes on you have no wheels.
What I would be interested to know is if a group case could be brought that sets a precedent - that would certainly put the willies up the BMW department of shoddy engineering.
its all poo
Registered user
BMW dont give a sh*it what you do !
BMW have lots of people who are paid lots of money to deal with this, I would say they will never admit it as it would cost them far too much ! If you push realy hard they will replace yours as with everything else as a goodwill gesture which covers them. My friend had a new engine in his ST800 just out of warrenty after asking about the noise for 12 months. They put it down as a goodwill gesture even though it was clearly not as it was a fault.
BMW have lots of people who are paid lots of money to deal with this, I would say they will never admit it as it would cost them far too much ! If you push realy hard they will replace yours as with everything else as a goodwill gesture which covers them. My friend had a new engine in his ST800 just out of warrenty after asking about the noise for 12 months. They put it down as a goodwill gesture even though it was clearly not as it was a fault.
That's weird .... I've been in the motor trade for over 20 years and that's the first time I've ever heard of that and a Barrister told you that?
Any failure? so if a window regulator fails within a 6 month period from new you are entitled to a new car are you?
gwigglesworth
Registered user
That's weird .... I've been in the motor trade for over 20 years and that's the first time I've ever heard of that and a Barrister told you that?
Any failure? so if a window regulator fails within a 6 month period from new you are entitled to a new car are you?
My understanding is that they get 3 attempts to fix on a new car unless it is really dangerous... i.e. if you bought a new car and it was cracked like a cut and shut....
On the Durability.. that is open to interpretation.. as they would take the average motorbike user... which I guess is 2000 miles per annum...
If something fails within the manufacturers warranty period then the repair/replacement can be carried out 'under warranty'
If something fails outside of the manufacturers warranty period and provided that the vehicle has been serviced in accordance with the manufacturers reccomended service schedule and that the servicing has been done by an authorised dealer then the repair/replacement may be covered under the manufacturers 'goodwill' parameters. Goodwill has to be requested. It is not automatically given especially on big units like engines etc
Manufacturers warranty inside the 2 year period and goodwill outside of the warranty period ..... that's how it is and how it always will be
That's the Lemon law in the USA isn't it?
gwigglesworth
Registered user
Vern, yes and we actually have something similar here... but you have to kick up a stink to do it....
I once rejected a Rocket III back to the supplying dealer before the bike was 6 months old. It had been to the dealership 5 times to cure an oil leak then had to go back to the factory to have a new crankcase fitted due to oil contamination. Shortly after I got it back it leaked again so I rode it straight to the dealership and they ended up giving me all my money back as they were unable to supply me with a new bike within a reasonable (3 month) time frame
To reject a vehicle it has to go back to the dealer you bought it from and you have to have that dealerships co-operation. It's not as simple or as straight forward as you might think
To reject a vehicle it has to go back to the dealer you bought it from and you have to have that dealerships co-operation. It's not as simple or as straight forward as you might think
Any failure? so if a window regulator fails within a 6 month period from new you are entitled to a new car are you?
Not sure that would work, in my case I had had several warranty visits in the first few hundred miles and then I got a recall over a problem with the frame (Some bikes had snapped in half). The dealer was too busy to look at the bike for a few weeks!
My barrister (friend of partners father) offered a no win no fee deal and said the recall letter alone should be enough to prove not fit for purpose at time of sale and as the vehicle was under six months I would be entitled to a new one. He also pointed out the dealer would probably ignore any correspondance until the last minute and ruin my summer.
Kawasaki UK offered to take the bike away and have a look at it, they came back and offered to do the recall work and give me about £1,000 worth of stuff as a goodwill gesture, this seemed reasonable so I accepted.
Not sure it would wash if an indicator bulb blew, but maybe a final drive shot within first six months would be serious enough - and again going to court is always a bit of a lottery one judge may give you a new bike cos the indicator bulb blew and another may go against you with a bike that fell in two halves.
Can I refer you to your original statement of:
Where I come from we call that back peddling and I reckon your Barrister mate if he did in fact say
" Any failure on a vehicle less than 6 months old would allow you to ask for a new machine and not even let them have a go at repairing "
is talking out of his shitter
Where I come from we call that back peddling and I reckon your Barrister mate if he did in fact say
" Any failure on a vehicle less than 6 months old would allow you to ask for a new machine and not even let them have a go at repairing "
is talking out of his shitter
Are you a professional complainer.......................or is it just a hobby
You seem to court a lot of problems in life
sven
Registered user
The Sale of Goods Act works something along the lines that if something fails within the first six months it was probably defective at the time of manufacture/sale and the buyer can demand a replacement or refund and it is up to the seller to prove that the product was not defective/not fit for purpose etc.
After six months, it is up to the buyer to prove the goods were defective/not fit for purpose etc.
I believe goods are covered under the act for six years from the date of purchase. However, a percentage of the repair cost can be deducted due to the beneficial use you've had e.g. if the design life was 50,000 miles and you've covered 30,000.
If I had a final drive failure at a relatively low mileage then it would be up to the small claims court to decide whether the mileage was acceptable or not if BMW did not accept liability. There's enough evidence to prove that it is a latent defect IMHO.
In BMW's defence, they did change the airbox, camchain tensioner and clutch pack (although I paid the labour on that) on my K1200S outside the warranty period.
After six months, it is up to the buyer to prove the goods were defective/not fit for purpose etc.
I believe goods are covered under the act for six years from the date of purchase. However, a percentage of the repair cost can be deducted due to the beneficial use you've had e.g. if the design life was 50,000 miles and you've covered 30,000.
If I had a final drive failure at a relatively low mileage then it would be up to the small claims court to decide whether the mileage was acceptable or not if BMW did not accept liability. There's enough evidence to prove that it is a latent defect IMHO.
In BMW's defence, they did change the airbox, camchain tensioner and clutch pack (although I paid the labour on that) on my K1200S outside the warranty period.
Has anyone challenged BMW under the Sales of Goods Act for the cost of replacing the final drive outside the warranty period? It seems to be a latent defect when it's failing on low mileage bikes with full service histories
Yours hasnt gone has it ??
Or are you just deciding on the extended warranty ??
sven
Registered user
Mine's fine (touch wood), but I was just a bit p*ssed off after forking out £200 on an extended warranty on a £10k bike - I wouldn't have dreamt of buying an extended warranty on a Japanese bike
You've lost me now ....... why did you buy a warranty if you know all about the Sale Of Goods Act?
In buying the warranty you appear to confirm that you have no confidence in the act or are you just pissed off because you've bought a warranty and haven't had the opportunity yet to make a claim?
