Servo brakes .. are they that unreliable?

What do you reckon to your servo brakes

  • Love them- never had a problem

    Votes: 73 67.6%
  • Love them - but they packed up

    Votes: 12 11.1%
  • Removed the servo after having problems

    Votes: 13 12.0%
  • Removed the servo just in case

    Votes: 10 9.3%

  • Total voters
    108
My brakes do a weird thing from time to time. A couple of times on my route I have a road downhill to a junction of a main road. The road surface is a bit uneven and not sure if this has anything to do with it, but when I hit the bumps downhill and brake at the same time the ABS or servo seem to kick in and I almost feel like I am losing brakes.

I get the same thing, I'm pretty sure that it's the back wheel losing traction over dips in the road while already unweighted by braking downhill. The anti-stoppie software releases the front brake briefly to allow the rear to drop (at least that's what it's trying to do - i presume it determines stoppie vs rear lockup based on the front still having grip or something). Can be particularly amusing on corrugated gravel roads which can give long stretches of ABS activation going into downhill bends. The first of which is usually a reminder to turn the ABS off until back on the tarseal...
 
not getting into all the heated bits and bobs about the goods and bads etc etc

BUT.....

A little spotty child driving a rover did an emergency u turn in the road in front of me the other day and I honestly can say that the wonderful delightful exquisite piece of kit known as ABS and SERVO ASSISTED BRAKES saved my neck - the combination of my full grab on the brake lever and the fact that the tip of my glove (BMW glove that is!) got caught under the lever, stopping me using all of my fingers would have probably resulted in me going over the top of said rover at a fair speed minus bike... as it was I managed to just touch his rear wing as my bike stopped!

I breathed out about ten minutes later.

I'm neutral on needing ABS etc on my GS Adventure, but it has to be said - THANK GAWD I HAD IT THAT DAY!
 
not getting into all the heated bits and bobs about the goods and bads etc etc

BUT.....

A little spotty child driving a rover did an emergency u turn in the road in front of me the other day and I honestly can say that the wonderful delightful exquisite piece of kit known as ABS and SERVO ASSISTED BRAKES saved my neck - the combination of my full grab on the brake lever and the fact that the tip of my glove (BMW glove that is!) got caught under the lever, stopping me using all of my fingers would have probably resulted in me going over the top of said rover at a fair speed minus bike... as it was I managed to just touch his rear wing as my bike stopped!

I breathed out about ten minutes later.

I'm neutral on needing ABS etc on my GS Adventure, but it has to be said - THANK GAWD I HAD IT THAT DAY!

By the same token my GSA with servo/abs removed saved my neck at high speed in Siberia earlier this year.....BUT....I didn't do a full on grab of the brake lever and hope I never will:eek:
 
I've even heard some people say that they are aware of the servo start up delay with BMW servos (I'm not one of them)

These will be the same people who could win the Dakar if they entered / ride up the inside of sportsbikes all the time / wear out a set of knee sliders every week :toungincheek
 
Kneesliders EVERY WEEK? :eek:

I haven't had one of them for years....they must be young, single men you speak of.:D
 
An interesting take here is there is more than one failure mode for the servo system.

Examples from my experience:
1. no servo assist with ignition on-mine did that from the day I got it, but I thought it was normal. Paddling a 245kg bike around with no effective brakes is fine on the flat and positively irritating in Devon
2. Not enough power in the battery to get through the self test - ride for a bit, then restart once battery has charged up.
3. failure of rear brake servo - 4hz flashing light - 'residual' braking - not enough power in the brake to slow the bike at all on a tarmac downhill - I know, fronts still available, but lets you know what residual actually is. Projection - front servo fails, can't stop bike at all, crash, die.
4. endless clicking from a relay because rear servo is dying
5. ( K1200S, same type of system) - bike fell off stand, rear brake pedal bent, entire brake system in fail mode - had to be recovered to my nearest BMW dealer. For a bent pedal.( yes, I know the brake is on the other side from the stand - a horse was involved).
6. light braking servo cut-in feature - didn't have to be a riding god to spot this, just had to have experience of linear vs. non linear braking. By this I mean that the braking effort is proportional to the squeeze, without a sudden step change in effort vs. effect
7. When trying some of the 'exercise your ABS' suggestions, I noted that, on gravel, I can't get my hand to pull hard enough to lock the front without really really overriding something in my head - I guess that's 25 years of non ABS braking experience surfacing there..
8. I agree- works great for totally unexpected emergency stops. particularly when wet / slippy / gravel

Net result - take servo off. Now have brakes when manoeuvring from a start, battery has not been low on charge since, rear brake works all the time, not blinded by flashy lights, nice linear response from front brakes, and have to squeeze really hard to lock the front - nice...

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to have ABS for those moments when...just not with an electric servo at the front of it.
 
57,300 miles and no problems. I find that the Ferodo Platinum pads that Steppers supplies don't have the same level of initial grab and so suit the servo brakes. Two fingered braking under any circumstances? No problem.

I got used to them about 57,290 miles ago:D

Had four previous BMWs (not counting my wife's four) without servos before getting a 2002 R11S with servos. Had no trouble getting used to them - after about twenty thousand miles, however, I reverted to type and got an 06 1200GS which also had servos. About 35k miles of aggressive riding on this one - no problems with servo whatsoever. As I get older and my hands are a bit stiffer in the morning, I don't mind needing less gripping force to stop the bike. Likewise, a few miles and a few unexpected stops short of the stop sign was all it took for me to get used to them - they are not difficult to modulate, still being pressure sensitive - much like power brakes on a well designed car (not like those on a mid seventies Ford LTD station wagon)

So, at over 55K miles of pretty aggressive riding both in lane-splitting high speed traffic and on the gorgeous twisty sweepy back roads through the canyons and hills and mountains of California, I have not had any servo failures or misgivings about having servos. Happy enough to get a non-servo bike next but no issues with the servos. Whenever I ride one of my wife's "ABS but not servo" bikes I find myself readjusting quickly enough

Mark
 
This has all made interesting reading. Especially as i am new to beemers (mine is an 1150 GS 1999-2000 model - so ABSII, no servo). I am also new to ABS as well.

I spent 18 years riding an ST1100 with absolutely shite brakes. I 'more or less' mastered them but really that just means i understood their limitations, which were many! Responsible for more very scary moments than i care to mention!

which leads me onto my thoughts. That ST was damned HEAVY. I read many comments about the GS being heavy and to me it just isnt. Perhaps i just became accustomed to something much heavier? Personally i think the beemers brakes are really good (especially since i've got them behaving properly recently :beerjug:). Based on all this, if i was to buy a later GS with servo that packed up, i wouldn't hesitate to remove it all.

So, i guess i am saying that i think i agree that the servo was probably a nice idea but was fixing a problem that wasn't there. But ultimately we all adjust to what the bike will do. Now my brakes are behaving i have found myself riding more aggressively and enjoying all that wonderful ground clearance i never used to have :D. Long may it last!
 
I don't know what makes you think that BMW intended servo-abs to be some sort of "emergency brake assist" system. They never marketed it as that and I have never seen any mention of such an intention.

Emergency brake assist on cars is designed to detect heavy braking and to push retardation to the limit of grip using additional power assistance and abs and stability systems to keep it under control. But the BMW bike servo system works all the time (like a normal car servo does) and makes no distinction between light or heavy braking.

Another point - ultimate braking performance is achieved by progressive brake application to first achieve weight transfer onto the front tyre, followed by harder braking to make use of the additional grip that the weight transfer provides. Applying the brakes hard, instantly (the near vertical line for brake force against time that you mention) will serve only to overwhelm the grip and trigger the abs, thus actually increasing braking distance. No one in their right mind, least of all a major bike manufacturer, would actually set out to design a bike braking system that works in this way.

Agree with everything you wrote.

At around the time they came up with this idea I attended the inquest of a biker who had died outside my girlfriends flat on the High Road (North London). A car had pulled out in front of him, from a side road, blocking his entire side of the road, but had then stopped (it was trying to turn right) as the opposite carriageway was full (of stationary traffic). The two concepts that were decisive in the inquest's final verdict (misadventure) stuck in my head.

a)Yes the car had pulled out in front of him and had completely blocked his path - BUT, this was a 'normal' manoevre by a car driver (according to all the witnesses) and was completely acceptable because the car driver had left the biker 'enough distance to stop'.

b) The biker had failed to brake hard enough to stop, a 'reasonably competent rider' could have stopped in time (according to the Police Expert) and some special 'expert' testified that 80% of bikers (riding large bikes) didn't brake properly because they pulled the brake lever hard enough to 'just not lock the front of a 125cc bike' (because that is what they had learn't on- pre Direct Access here) but this finger pressure on a 'superbike' (in this case a Kawa Zephyr 550) would not 'brake the bike as much as a car driver pulling out in front of might reasonably expect it to.'.

Forget SMIDSY, by the end of the inquest I was surprised there wasn't a verdict of suicide.

But, around this time, there were a lot of 'studies' being cited that 'proved' that 'people' didn't brake as hard as they could have done in emergencies - which is why EBA was developed by car manufacturers, but before that BMW put the servos on to try and address the issue - once they were confident the ABS could cover those who really did know how much pressure they could apply.

I have a non servo 2001 R1150 GS and a servo 2002 R1100S.

I haven't felt the need to convert the 'S', although the only problems have been the brakes applying themselves without my input. But having said that, I don't hate BMW for trying the idea - I believe that they meant well, and I well remember the absolute slagging they got for fitting ABS to a bike (much the same as this thread: unreliable, over complex, not needed, I can do better without etc).

Personally, I will never buy another big bike with servo'd or linked brakes, but will also never buy one without ABS. But it is a very personal choice based on a very personal experience - and I believe there is no single right answer, because we are all different and our experiences will be different.

Indeed, the only thing we seem to have in common here is the need for a simple answer to the question 'which is best'?

I think it was Green who said:

'For every question there is always a simple answer,
By deffinition, it is wrong.'
 
b) The biker had failed to brake hard enough to stop, a 'reasonably competent rider' could have stopped in time (according to the Police Expert) and some special 'expert' testified that 80% of bikers (riding large bikes) didn't brake properly because they pulled the brake lever hard enough to 'just not lock the front of a 125cc bike' (because that is what they had learn't on- pre Direct Access here) but this finger pressure on a 'superbike' (in this case a Kawa Zephyr 550) would not 'brake the bike as much as a car driver pulling out in front of might reasonably expect it to.'.

Forget SMIDSY, by the end of the inquest I was surprised there wasn't a verdict of suicide.



I would like to think things have changed since that inquest. I live in hope. I agree, a verdict of suicide sounds like the hidden verdict!

I had this romantic idea we adjust our braking according to speed. Meaning more speed, more (progressive) braking. The idea a 'big' bike would be given only enough to lock the front of a 125 is hard to understand. In the last days before my ST was stolen, i did a front wheelie one day approaching a zebra (down a hill btw) because two 'community police' girls just stepped onto the zebra without even glancing into the road :clap. In my view all was under control, no skidding, no course deviation. I stopped in good time. This was an unexpected 'incident' just like a car making the highly inconsiderate maneuver you mentioned.

I'm trying to understand if that guy's bike had a servo brakes, would he be alive? That is a really tough question... There is such a wide variety of skill level, experience and attitude by both four wheelers and two wheelers its very hard to say.

I vote there is no simple answer. If it is down to experience then where do you get that?... I also can't understand how BMW was able to release such a 'flawed' system without a major recall if it was so bad?
 
I was chatting with James Sherlock on christmas eve and he said that servos only fail on bikes that are not use regulary


Don't believe that - I rode 100 miles a day on a mixture of roads and racked up 35k miles when my first servo failed, 20k miles later the second servo failed. I then had steptoe rip it all out and been riding it since (now at 85k miles) I prefer the bike without the servo and still get impressive braking according to the MOT man.
 
I would second that

Use my 1150 on a regular basis and exercise the servo frequently - still on the way out...
 
Since this thread is reincarnated I still have the same bike but now without servo.

I stripped the bike for a cosmetic refurbishment and as it was getting on for 70,000 miles and I had a big trip planned I removed all of the servo kit using the thread on this site for info. The brakes are very bit as good and the bike is about 6Kgs lighter. Practising cadence braking may be a good idea though;)

P.S. Informed my insurance company, no problem, no additional cost.
 
I was chatting with James Sherlock on christmas eve and he said that servos only fail on bikes that are not use regulary

Complete and utter rubbish.

Two of the bikes I know of that had issues were virtually new, one was only weeks old when it twice failed, he handed it back and handed the job of getting his money back to his solictor. The third was a very well used K12RS, as in every weekend pretty much all year.

The only thing I would concede is that all the ones I know about personally were early models.
 
Use my 1150 on a regular basis and exercise the servo frequently - still on the way out...

What's the symptom of servos on the way out? I got the impression they just stopped working suddenly, but if there's something that would give me early warning...
 
What's the symptom of servos on the way out? I got the impression they just stopped working suddenly

There are a number of symptoms, ranging in severity. I've had.

1. ABS Light not cancelling on startup but with full brake force
2. ABS Light flashing when applying brakes with full brake force
3. ABS light coming on/flashing during riding without touching brakes
4. ABS Light and GEN light FLashing rapidly during braking, Residual brake force


I think the last one was when the servo went to residual. You CAN stop with residual brakes but they are effectively down in performance compared to servo brakes. If you are used to bad braking then it isn't a problem, but if you are part of the late braking brigade then you will not have sufficient room to come to a halt.

Ditching the servo gave brakes that are AS good (if not better - due to the better feel and less 'digital' effect)
 
There are a number of symptoms, ranging in severity. I've had.

1. ABS Light not cancelling on startup but with full brake force
2. ABS Light flashing when applying brakes with full brake force
3. ABS light coming on/flashing during riding without touching brakes
4. ABS Light and GEN light FLashing rapidly during braking, Residual brake force


I think the last one was when the servo went to residual. You CAN stop with residual brakes but they are effectively down in performance compared to servo brakes. If you are used to bad braking then it isn't a problem, but if you are part of the late braking brigade then you will not have sufficient room to come to a halt.

Ditching the servo gave brakes that are AS good (if not better - due to the better feel and less 'digital' effect)

Thanks - those are the sort of failures I'm aware of. Although of different severity, they're all sudden in that they manifest along with warning lights. I'd ditch the servo, but I quite like the safety blanket of ABS.

I was wondering if people were getting some symptom before the red lights start to flash, or getting intermittent flashing lights, that might say the time has come to remove the servo before it dies somewhere inconvenient?
 
Took mine off recently. It feels tons better without, much more progressive brakes. Very handy during this manky weather we bin having.
I suppose the thing is, if theyre working ok, thats fine. But its nice to know that if your servo goes tits up theres a method of getting round it without selling a kidney to do it.
 
Brushes

In my case the life of the servo unit was the life of the brushes of the back servo´s electric pump. That I learned after the absectomy I did to have brakes again. (65000 milles)
 


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