Servo brakes....... yet again 4/9/05

[nemezis]

The K1200rs has had a lot of problems, i know of one owner who gave his bike back, after several brake failures and a couple of new servo pumps.

He's now got a 1150 ADV, ( non servo )

If anyone is thinking today about buying a BMW Motorbike with Integrated ABS Brakes, make sure you read the letter from BMW and the supplement to the Rider's Manual before.

German and US customers already got that letter and supplement.

nemezis

 

[Pukmeister]

Alex, my riding buddy has an 1150 Adv and his bike had to go back to BWM on a lorry due to a servo ABS braking problem.

The 1150ABS does go wrong..............

 

[Mouse]

Nothing I've read suggests this problem is specific to the 1200. In fact, if anything, the 1200 is "safer" because there's more residual braking available and it weighs less

 

[nemezis]

anniversary of the statement of Dr. Robert Kahlenberg

Nothing I've read suggests this problem is specific to the 1200. In fact, if anything, the 1200 is "safer" because there's more residual braking available ...

Well, I know the BMW R1150GS Adv. Mod. 03 and the BMW R1200GS Mod. 04 residual brakes. The residual brakes of the 12er are definitly improved, but the whole design is the same.

And - today is anniversary of the statement of Dr. Robert Kahlenberg:

"Kahlenberg's memo went on to say, however, that "there remains the matter of the unsettlingly complex nature of our brake system. ... Rendering all production foolproof is unrealistic. The system is insufficiently thought out in its effect and fall-back capability." (Dr. Robert Kahlenberg, BMW QA, 09/13/2004, quoted from OTL article by Dr. Robert Hellman)

Today is anniversary and you all can read about the "insufficiently thought out system in its effect an fall-back capability" in a letter from BMW and in a supplement to the Rider's Manual.

nemezis

 

[HeatedGrips]

Today is anniversary and you all can read about the "insufficiently thought out system in its effect an fall-back capability" in a letter from BMW and in a supplement to the Rider's Manual.

nemezis

This is getting beyond funny. STOP IT!

 

[nemezis]

This is getting beyond funny. STOP IT!

Well, why don't you just read the four pages supplement to the Riders's Manual and cite what you are supposed to do if you are left with residuals while riding downhill in the alps or while riding on the highway with 100 mph and recognize the warning lights?

This issue is not surging or bad valve seats which they can run away from for years, I truly believe some rider is going to get injured and possibly killed. The problem with residuals is, that BMW says there is 'normal braking' remaining. But when a rider comes to get used to a very light pull on the brake lever to stop with the new system, you are left startled when it does not work. As we all know a few seconds translates into many linear feet down the road, and possibly into something.

But BMW has more to say: In this situation you have to bring the lever in the widest position, and you have to do test brakings.

So what I said is, that today is anniversary and you all can read about the "insufficiently thought out system in its effect an fall-back capability" in a letter from BMW and in a supplement to the Rider's Manual. And it was not meant funny. I am not funny. And I never was funny.

nemezis

 

[Le singe]

But Nemezis, you are really funny!

 

[skywalker]

A suggestion to all members of this forum,bmw forum and adventure rider etc forum.Hit the ignore button for this resident nutter who goes under various pseudoyms such as "press officer",Dr ABS,nemesis etc.For someone who seems to be a world authority on this subject he actually knows very little.
I personally am sick to the back teeth of hearing all these stories about abs failures given the number of different models fitted with this system out there.
Suggest you get a life & stop worring the large amount of owners out there.

 

[nemezis]

But Nemezis, you are really funny!

Speaking about beeing funny I like to add my thoughts: I think folks are funny that read the letter from BMW and the four pages to the Rider's Manual and still defend the defective design of the brakes, knowing serveral posts on this board alone about servo brake failures and their consequences. When a manufacturer of a premier brand is having to justify their brake system in a 4 page letter and offers to give you a free inspection, does that not concern you? These folks that are obviously not concerned may look stupid.

To me, that is the funny part: Looking stupid!

And - the bulletin covers way more than voltage. If you can't get that in the 4 pages, just forget it. You are really on your own when shit happens.

nemezis

 

[nemezis]

New ABS Brakes in spring 2006

FYI: There is a note in the German motorbike mag MO 10/2005 on page 7. In March 2006 BMW will present the R1200S at the dealers but MO is unsure if it will have the controversial Integrated Brakes from FTE Automotive as an option.

They say that maybe there will be a new system available until then.

nemezis

 

[Alex]

Where is that 4 page letter and the extra pages in the owners manual. I have certainly not received anything for the 1150adv and my mate with the 1200 has also not received anything. I made an internet search and found nothing. Does the letter really exist?? Can someboy scan it and post it online?

 

[Warthog]

This thread has confused me as well as alarmed me.

Firstly, I've always seen ABS and servo-assistance as too seperate entities. One stops you locking up by checking wheel revs to (I assume ) engine revs and gear and the other gives you extra stopping power using a pump run by the bike's electrics. Or there abouts...

It seesms to me that the problem being discussed in this 4 page letter is that of the servo brakes rather than the ABS component. Is this the case?

I have ABS and I'm happy its there although I've not needed it yet and hope I won't, but I do not have the servo aspect. So I am in the clear? Is there such a thing as a non-ABS servo system?

More importantly, my dad has got a Servo-ABS 1150RT and I think its something he should know about, so what should he avoid or practice in the simplest possible terms?

Cheers

 

[Steptoe]

This thread has confused me as well as alarmed me.

Is there such a thing as a non-ABS servo system?

No ....

 

[Taipan]

So are my servo assisted brakes crap and could kill me anytime they feel like it then. Serious question BTW.

Are here any numbers to thsi phenomenon? 1 in a 10000, 1 in 1000, 1 in a 100?

 

[Warthog]

No ....

What about all me other questions, guv'?

 

[nemezis]

Where is that 4 page letter and the extra pages in the owners manual. ...

Germans and US owners got a one page letter and a 4 page supplement to the Rider's Manual. Don't know about the UK.

German: 4 pages supplement & one page letter

US: 4 pages supplement to the Rider's Manual

US: One page letter from BMW

After reading the one page letter and the 4 pages supplement there is one question: "Does my continuing to ride this bike make me now culpable legally (partially) because of the ridiculous letter from some attorney?"

nemezis

 

[nemezis]

I try to explain the issues raised in the supplement based on my knowledge with these brakes:

I.

"When driving with the residual braking function, the following instructions must be followed: Adjust the brake levers to the maximum travel. In clear situations, carry out test braking to learn the response behavior of the brakes."

Which means that if your servos fail during ride you are supposed to bring the lever in the widest position because residuals need more lever travel and you are supposed do test brakings since the completely different response from the brakes may result in a crash.

II.

"It meets all requirements of the worldwide legislation on the brake design of motor vehicles and enables the rider to brake the motorcycle."

Which means explicit that you don't have to complain or to sue against BMW if you get in trouble, at least with the residuals.

III.

"With the 'forced braking' ..., during which the brake pressure is generated as quickly as possible and with maximum force ... which increases the braking distances."

Which means that the reason the servos were build for are obsolet (reason was to generate max. pressure as quickly as possible), and which means that you have to be careful in an emergency/panic braking not to build up pressure quickly and with max. force: The brake will open immediately and may lead to long cycling intervals in that situation.

IV.

"The system is not optimized for special requirements resulting ... on racing circuits"

Which means that every problem they raised in the supplement will increase the dangerous potential if you ride sporty.

nemezis

 

[Gonzo]

I haven't had a letter so if I get killed by servo failure I can still sue them.

 

[Wizard]

I wonder what the statistical chances of being killed by servo failure vs the statistical chances of being bored to death by Dr Whingebag.

 

[Alex]

No ....

Steptoe you ar wrong. All BMWs up to 2003 which were equiped with ABS did not have servos. In the GS that covers all 1100s and most 1150s. Anything with ABS that does not have integral brakes or does not write BMW on the front calipers, does not have servos.