Servo brakes....... yet again 4/9/05

[ag1s]

Steptoe you ar wrong. All BMWs up to 2003 which were equiped with ABS did not have servos. In the GS that covers all 1100s and most 1150s. Anything with ABS that does not have integral brakes or does not write BMW on the front calipers, does not have servos.

Alex, Steptoe said that there are no bikes with servo and no abs not that there are no bikes with abs and no servo!

 

[Steptoe]

Steptoe you ar wrong. All BMWs up to 2003 which were equiped with ABS did not have servos. In the GS that covers all 1100s and most 1150s. Anything with ABS that does not have integral brakes or does not write BMW on the front calipers, does not have servos.

Alex , the question asked, was
"Is there such a thing as a non-ABS servo system"

To which i replied "NO" - so how am i wrong ?

I think you've misread the question ????

there is no such thing as a Non ABS servo

if it's got servo brakes, it's got ABS

 

[Alex]

I try to explain the issues raised in the supplement based on my knowledge with these brakes:

I.

"When driving with the residual braking function, the following instructions must be followed: Adjust the brake levers to the maximum travel. In clear situations, carry out test braking to learn the response behavior of the brakes."

Which means that if your servos fail during ride you are supposed to bring the lever in the widest position because residuals need more lever travel and you are supposed do test brakings since the completely different response from the brakes may result in a crash.

Well it is exactly the same in all cars in the last 20 years. I don't see you complaining about that...

II.

"It meets all requirements of the worldwide legislation on the brake design of motor vehicles and enables the rider to brake the motorcycle."

Which means explicit that you don't have to complain or to sue against BMW if you get in trouble, at least with the residuals.

It also means that hundreds of governments which are made up of thousands of people, have reasonable cause to believe this product is safe. It ia amazing that you think you are the unique reasonable person here.

III.

"With the 'forced braking' ..., during which the brake pressure is generated as quickly as possible and with maximum force ... which increases the braking distances."

Which means that the reason the servos were build for are obsolet (reason was to generate max. pressure as quickly as possible), and which means that you have to be careful in an emergency/panic braking not to build up pressure quickly and with max. force: The brake will open immediately and may lead to long cycling intervals in that situation.

You don't make any sense here. All it says is that if you make an ABS demonstration i.e. make continouus full pressure ABS stops in a very short period of time, it could flatten your battery. It is the same if you leave the lights or radio on with the engine off you know. Most people consider that logical and reasonable.

IV.

"The system is not optimized for special requirements resulting ... on racing circuits"

Which means that every problem they raised in the supplement will increase the dangerous potential if you ride sporty.

Street racing is illegal anyway. Sporty riding is a different thing to racing. You are playing with words in order to confuse people for what reason??? We all know by now that you are not a fan of ABS or servo assistance. It's just that you are now going beyond logic and reason and are becoming rather annoying.

 

[Alex]

Alex , the question asked, was
"Is there such a thing as a non-ABS servo system"

To which i replied "NO" - so how am i wrong ?

I think you've misread the question ????

there is no such thing as a Non ABS servo

if it's got servo brakes, it's got ABS

You are right and I'm wrong. Sorry mate.

 

[Steptoe]

You are right and I'm wrong. Sorry mate.

No problem - it's all Greek to me anyway

 

[Deleted account 211025001]

It's just that you are now going beyond logic and reason and are becoming rather annoying.

Becoming??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Nemeziz, have you managed to get any info on the new BMW parallel twin engines?

Andres

 

[nemezis]

Hey,

We all know by now that you are not a fan of ABS or servo assistance

that is not the point. Ane the point may not be that you didn't get the true meaning of a one page letter from BMW together with a four pages manual full of warnings to the Rider's Manual.

The only point is here: "Does my continuing to ride this bike make me now culpable legally (partially) because of the ridiculous letter from some attorney?"

Dr. Herbert Diess, BMW Motorrad Boss in Germany, didn't answer the question if the customer will be culpable legally! He just said that they don't believe that there will be crashes (NETZEITUNG).

The issue is about the legal impact of the letter and the supplement.

nemezis

 

[Paul Wakefield]

"culpable legally (partially)". Of what?

paul

 

[nemezis]

"culpable legally (partially)". Of what?

paul

Of what? Of any outcome from an accident.

nemezis

 

[Paul Wakefield]

Culpable per my dictionary "criminally to blame". I'm intrigued.

Paul

 

[nemezis]

Culpable per my dictionary "criminally to blame". I'm intrigued.

You did read the four pages supplement to the Rider's Manual? Good!

Several legal problems may occur if you have an accident, for example you crash in people: Bodily harm or death.

nemezis

 

[ELIMINATOR]

OK Nemezis,

1) Have your ABS servo assisted brakes failed on your bike?

2) What model was it?

3) I assume that you have sold it?

4) What were the circumstances of your brakes failing?

5) Who did you consult as the first course of action?

6) Have you any documented proof of any fatalities caused by this brake failure?

 

[Paul Wakefield]

You did read the four pages supplement to the Rider's Manual? Good!

Of course not. It hasn't been issued here (yet).

But from what you've published, I can only assume that if I fail to adjust the lever span to maximum, do a track day at Donington, perform a series of emergency stops in quick succession, have a brake failure, career across the fields and land on the M1 causing a major incident, you feel I may be criminally to blame despite having brakes that comply with worldwide legislation.

Paul

PS I'm surprised that all those people who do track days including the Nurburgring are still with us.

 

[Mouse]

you feel I may be criminally to blame despite having brakes that comply with worldwide legislation.

It's not what Dr ABS feels that's important. It's what the lawyers of the person you injure feel they can prove in court. And as we all know, lawyers don't work in the realms of what you and I would consider reasonable.

 

[Paul Wakefield]

It's not what Dr ABS feels that's important.

Couldn't agree with you more.

It's what the lawyers of the person you injure feel they can prove in court.

I realise that but I think I'm happy to take my chance. If I'm riding a bike which is unmodified and complies with all Worldwide legislation (and, from other posts, we know the residual braking is legally adequate whatever we may think personally), then I think the risk of a legal problem is too remote to worry about.

Anyway I'll either be too glad to have survived an unexpected brake failure or I won't be around to worry about it

Paul

 

[nemezis]

I'm surprised that all those people who do track days including the Nurburgring are still with us.

I am not. And riding pussies on our famous Nurburgring makes me angry every time. Really, very angry.



nemezis

 

[Paul Wakefield]

Come in TheJoker, Have you been riding pussy on the Nurburgring, you naughty boy?

Ummmm - I thought the K1200s did a sub 8 minute lap. On the assumption, that you mean riding gently when you talk of riding pussies (rather than the alternative English menaing), how fast do you want then to go?

Paul

 

[nemezis]

Germans and US owners got a one page letter and a 4 page supplement to the Rider's Manual. Don't know about the UK.

German: 4 pages supplement & one page letter

US: 4 pages supplement to the Rider's Manual

US: One page letter from BMW

After reading the one page letter and the 4 pages supplement there is one question: "Does my continuing to ride this bike make me now culpable legally (partially) because of the ridiculous letter from some attorney?"

nemezis

The translation from German to English is wrong.

Page 4

They will have to print a new one since "weather" means in the German original "competition".

nemezis

 

[nemezis]

Did you hear about that Phone Survey on Braking System?

 

[Activmoto]

My previous 2 BMW bikes had ABS fitted by my choice, they both had problems. When I ordered my GS I decided not to have ABS. The main factor in this decision was not entirely the previous problems but the total lack of information about the system.
ABS systems are not all made equal and the manufactures give zero info on their systems. So when the salesman asks do you want ABS how are we supposed to make the disision?
When I choose other components of my motorcycling, tyres, hemets, leathers etc. I try to get the best performance for the money, I guess it is getting value and I try to achieve that for most things I buy.
So if you buy ABS how can you make an informed purchase, the answer to this is you can't. You just have to hope it will be the best system and perform in a positive way in an unknown set of circumstances sometime in the future, and just hope the engineers got it right.
The other alternative is not to spend the money on ABS and hope I can perform in a set of unkown circumstances at some time in the future and get it right.

Steve