slowish start up

[adventuredon]

So, recently the heated grips have started the will be on, wont be on routine, unless you stop and turn bike off and then on again. Then they are fine. Very intermittent. On 2 different threads I have read that its to do with the battery not providing enough power at start up. So, thinking my battery might eb on the way out (OE and 3.5 years old, with bike ridden most days 10m x 2 ways) I decided to replace the battery just in case it got the sudden death syndrome. Must say in the mornings, it did sort of sound hesitant to crank over. Not massively so, but definitely not the instant honda/suzuki 600 type of instant crank and start up. Anyhow, I replaced it with a new motobatt. Well I say new, it arrived undercharged enough to not start my bike, the packaging was taped shut and there was evidence of someone having tried to tighten a power lead down which left a small indent on the plastic where this has been done. Anyhow, I ran a charger for 2 days on it and managed to get 13.8 v showing. Now I know this is no test of the battery, fitted it and my bike starts. All good. But it is no more instant than my old battery (which showed 13.6 yesterday after swapping them out). So, does your bike crank up instantaneously or is there something else on the way out? And can I test that part?
Look, bike starts and runs so all good, but I was expecting an instant "whoomph" but apparently not..Or do all GS1200's do that? Cannot remeber if mine was instant when I bought it, but it def sounds a bit slow... been for a 13 mile ride on the new battery twice only..so:
Dodgy Battery, paranoid or starter on way out?

 

[Fanum]

Go ride the long way home tomorrow and you'll find out which of the three options is correct.

A good half an hour riding is needed (usually) to just put the power that a start up takes from the battery back in......sounds to me like you're gradually flattening the battery each day, and they don't like that



Gowan...tomorrow is supposed to be a nice day, so pick a place 50 miles out and ride to it, have a coffee, ride back....even if it doesn't prove anything about your battery, you'll still feel better for it

 

[adventuredon]

would love to, work gets in the way though...but surely 10 miles each way daily is enough...

 

[B4ndit]

Mine really sounds like it just ain't going to catch. Almost as if your turning it over by hand. Always does fire though. I thought they were all like that.

2 Years old. Original Battery.

 

[(RIP) Miff]

Mine sounds slow on cold days, even with a new battery.

I always turn the grips off until the bike has been started. There's probably no need as someone will correct me soon enough, but I don't like cranking an engine with other ancillaries turned on at the same time.

 

[Fanum]

Mine sounds slow on cold days, even with a new battery.

I always turn the grips off until the bike has been started. There's probably no need as someone will correct me soon enough, but I don't like cranking an engine with other ancillaries turned on at the same time.

You're not.

There's a voltage dumping relay that turns everything off while there's power to the starter........next time you start her up, watch the headlights....they go off then.

would love to, work gets in the way though...but surely 10 miles each way daily is enough...

In the summer probably yes, but now, you've probably got extra lights on, heated grips etc.......and the cold affects battery efficiency quite a lot as well.

if you're riding in traffic quite a lot, the alternator probably isn't actually producing power at all for a fair part of the time.

So no, I suspect your 10 miles each way is NOT enough to replace the starting power AND top off the battery.

 

[adventuredon]

I hear you, but...its a 10 mile run x 2 on a fast a 3 without stopping. AND the OE battery has coped with this for 31000 miles and 3 years, as well as a worse journey. So this one should do it too especially after being fully drip charged over 3 days. And then it only showed 12.6v...so not near the amount a new one should take (IIR) . Anyhow, this afternoon it wouldn't start for my homeward journey, cranked and died. Used public transport to get home, so a swap out is again on Fckn cards. Am now convinced I got a returned battery sent to me (in the hope the previous person did not attach it correctly or the fault was him not charging it or something. etc).

" Well I say new, it arrived undercharged enough to not start my bike, the packaging was taped shut and there was evidence of someone having tried to tighten a power lead down which left a small indent on the plastic where this has been done."

Have written to them now. pissed off and should have left the OE alone!

You're not.

There's a voltage dumping relay that turns everything off while there's power to the starter........next time you start her up, watch the headlights....they go off then.



In the summer probably yes, but now, you've probably got extra lights on, heated grips etc.......and the cold affects battery efficiency quite a lot as well.

if you're riding in traffic quite a lot, the alternator probably isn't actually producing power at all for a fair part of the time.

So no, I suspect your 10 miles each way is NOT enough to replace the starting power AND top off the battery.

 

[Mr Bean]

FWIW my daily (4 days) commute is 3 miles each way with a 200 mile round trip on the fifth + pleasure riding as and when. My bike always turns slowly and never fails to catch.

I also measured the battery voltage under load at idle and it was greater than 13.5 volts.

Late last/early this year when the bike was off the road (outside & not covered) for the three months of November - February in the snow and ice, it started without being charged. Yes it did turn very slowly but it did start without additional charging.

No idea if it is relevant but it does have an Oddessy battery fitted.

 

[(RIP) Miff]

It will turn over slower than a jap 4. It's a big twin.

It's Tapatalk. Get over it.

 

[adventuredon]

Swapped them over again today, so now back on the OE battery (read 13.6v this am off the charger). Bike started first time and I have more confidence that it it will again tomorrow. So will return battery and ponder whether to get a replacement, or wait til the OE does go bang and then replace..

"There's a voltage dumping relay that turns everything off while there's power to the starter." Surely then, the theory that the heated grips don't always work (power management etc) when battery is on way out, cannot be true...
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...rips-intermittant-Fault&p=3635949#post3635949

 

[Fanum]

..

"There's a voltage dumping relay that turns everything off while there's power to the starter." Surely then, the theory that the heated grips don't always work (power management etc) when battery is on way out, cannot be true...
http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showth...rips-intermittant-Fault&p=3635949#post3635949

No, it's true*.....just watch your lights when you press the starter button. (you could measure the current at the heated grip connection but that's WAY too much work, so trust the info or not)

The trigger for the relay is from the starter motor...when you hit that button, all power other than ECU/injection system and starter is cut until you release the button.(not even sure about ECU TBH but as that controls the FI system, I'm presuming it can't get cut)

Starting and charging are two very different things, but charging affects starting and vice versa.


3 years isn't an unreasonable time for a battery under your conditions of deep discharge/charging by the way.........an OEM battery can last 7-10 years if its cycle pattern is 'friendly' to it, but some types of batteries do not like being deep discharged.....and doing so (as you appear to be) will fekk them up in much shorter order than many will see in 'optimum' conditions.

Some battery types are far more tolerant of deep discharge recovery cycles........without going to Google, I couldn't tell you what sort.

In your specific case, an optimate or similar charger may well be the answer......I dislike them intensely, because they do tend to disguise a physically failing battery and present a false reading of 'fully charged' when (as I've often said here) all that little green light means is "I've charged this fucker as much as I can, no more juice will fit into it, therefore I'm showing a green light"

IMO (but I'd want to do a drop test on it) , your battery is fucked, and not unreasonably soon.....you need a new one, or need to charge it with the settings apt for that type of battery (some respond to a large voltage initially to start the process, others hate that and just need a long trickle)

*Edit.....I thought you were quoting me on a thread last week in which I said something very similar, but the dump relay doesn't just switch outr the suply to the heated grips (let alone them first) it turns off ALL of the ancilliaries.

(when it gets too low in fact, it even resets the clock in order to give enough juice to start up)

 

[adventuredon]

Thanks for the replies. An optimate is not an option (I don't own one and the bike lives outside on the street so no access to plug one in). Performing a drop test is beyond me and paying for one (unless someone on the parish can/wants to/offers?).
So, my options are replace OE with new OE as I trust that (even though M Batt has higher crank and gets rave reviews, way better than Yuasa)
Leave it and wait (get a recovery...mmmhph)
get an new motobatt, one that has def not been used before with packagingf closed. I need to trust my bike to start.
My riding habits of the weekly commute then a weekend ride when probable (more often than not - all year) wont be changing, so a battery that can take my riding patterns is what I need - deep discharge or not-
So, it seems the best bet is a like for like replacement - motobins.
I do not think my battery is on the way out as the heated grip symptoms have been there since year 1. Bike has always started, albeit with a slow ish turn (Normal from what previous posts have reported).
Vines g ford just refuse to investigate the heated grip issue as they cannot replicate it, say its the switch gear or 1 or t other etc. It happens very rarely so I thought it could be battery. I do think that the battery I got sent was a crap/resend as it had marks on it, was opened and actually my fears posting this prior to it failing might be an indicaction. My OE battery shows higher voltage on multi metre than the "new one" after same amount of charging. Anyhow, I guess I won't use spares unlimited again as they say no fault of theirs etc

 

[Fanum]

Have a look in the local press....many if not MOST garages and places like Halfords will be offering 'winter motoring checks'

Any garage worthy of the name will have a drop tester......it simply comprises of a dirty great big coil of heavy wiring inbetween two prongs that with an inline voltemeter they jab down on the terminals of the battery......if you google "Do your own battery drop test" I'm certain you'll find idiot proof step by step examples, but go along to any garage with a nice smile and they;ll do it for free or just a packet of doughnuts.

You're making it more complicated and potentially expensive than it needs to be by standing back and not owning the fucking problem! (forgive my management speak there )

I believe you're a teacher, or at a college of some sort?

Have you asked the person in the design and tech /physics/whatever is most appropriate lab about it?

Get stuck in to it, honestly......nobody's going to bite you if you approach them in the right way, and the chances are your battery is salvageable if you deal with it correctly and soon








I'm outta here, or I'm going to get exasperated

 

[adventuredon]

Well, went to a few garages. They didn't have a 12v drop tester (or they didn't want to test my battery). Anyhow, the motobatt battery that I got off unlimited spares in Yorkshire is still awaiting collection (they keep promising to send a courier - then emailing me and being abusive cos I haven't posted it. I even e mailed the guy to tell him the address. ). DO NOT BUY FROM THESE GUYS - very disorganised, unapologetic and crass. Bike still almost as slow to turn over but at least I know its a new battery and shouldn't fail suddenly. Got an optimate now (and the current battery) as part of Hein Gericke not being able to provide me with a visor I had ordered and paid for, so the OEM one is on the optimate upstairs. Funny, it showed 12.6 on the bike and 12.2 on start up...so I think the battery is okay. The new battery showed 13.8 and 13.4...BUT the heated grip issue remains. Happened on Fri morning. Today all good every time. I am convinced it is something besides this protecting circuit thing. Its been an issue since year 1 on mine - won't bore you with the return history etc - but just to say that I don't believe it is related to battery--and service guys at BMW cannot replicate it, so I got fobbed off a few times..