Sluggish start and brake failure light?

[MattW]

Finally had the chance today to get out on my new to me TC which I bought just before Christmas.

Everything was fine when I initially started it but on each subsequent start it was sluggish to turn over and I got the battery symbol in the RID and a brake failure warning. Both these cleared after a few seconds running but I guess I shouldn't be seeing this?

Anyone else experienced this - I'd guess it means the battery is on it's way out?

It's sub 4000 mile, 2012 'approved used' bike bought from a dealer so is under warranty.

 

[Shunt]

Just had very similar on my 2005gs when the battery crapped out on me. Even blew the tail light bulb a few days later.
New bulb an battery fitted. It's a happy GS again.

 

[adventuredon]

Brakes are normal, the light goes out after a few wheel turns. Battery just needed a charge and by riding it you probably have done that now. Not advisable to just start and switch off the bike, nor start and leave it running. Just ride.

 

[MattW]

Brakes are normal, the light goes out after a few wheel turns. Battery just needed a charge and by riding it you probably have done that now. Not advisable to just start and switch off the bike, nor start and leave it running. Just ride.

It's been living on a charger since I got it and it started fine first time. It was only on subsequent starts after 30 miles of riding that it started to play up...

 

[Bendy toy]

It could well be a failing battery cell.

One of these wired to the accessory connector will tell you what's going on.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Motor...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c46e820c4

 

[Roadrash Rider]

Had mine out today same problem been living on a trickle charger for the last 4 weeks, but sluggish to get it going. I guess its the battery but its only 12months old.


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[Roadrash Rider]

Should gave said put it back on the oxford smart charger when i got in and the battery levels read ok?


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[Bendy toy]

To prove its not the starter use jump leads from the car battery. Don't run the car engine. If it spins over fine its the bike battery.

Leave the bike battery off the trickle charger for a few days. If the bike starts the battery may be ok.

 

[MattW]

Should gave said put it back on the oxford smart charger when i got in and the battery levels read ok?


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Smart chargers aren't actually that smart.
If a battery has been flattened, its capacity will have been reduced and a charger will report that it's fine and fully charged but only fully charged to it's reduced capacity. I'm guessing that this is probably what's happened to mine - it's only done 3800 miles from new so will have inevitably spent a lot of time standing unused. If it wasn't on a charger it will probably have flattened its battery more than once, buggering it in the process.

Hopefully it's covered under the warranty...

 

[Bendy toy]

Normal use discharging creates a soluble sulphate that converts back when its charged. Self discharge creates a hard sulphate that wont revert back. This eventually clogs the battery cells. One solution is a smart charger. Another is a Ballistic battery that can stand all year and lose only 10% charge with no damage. Not cheap, but saves a lot of fuss and makes space under the seat.

 

[MattW]

Not heard of them - are they Lithium cells?

 

[DC]

as Said with the warning lights,,the red one will be the ABS brake .and the Yellow Triangle will be the Traction light ….these go out after the wheel has turned its full circumference. If they stay on theres a problem . should you get a blown rear brake light , a symbol and initials will pop up on the dash, something like RL

 

[Bendy toy]

Not heard of them - are they Lithium cells?

Ballistic are LiFePo dry cells a type of lithium cell. They cost double the price of an Odyssey AGM lead acid but are very small - an 8 cell will sit under the GS petrol tank. They don't suffer damage from self discharge. They have high CCA figures but don't work instantly in very cold conditions but a few start attempts will warm the battery and the engine will start. With lead acid you get one chance. If that's not enough you're stuck.
Lead acid starter batteries never give out their full charge content. E.g. 16AH is the current/time to fully charged but taking 16 amps for one hour (or 1 amp for 16 hours) will kill the battery. LiFePo can be flattened to dead like a power tool battery with no harm done. So they effectively have a higher power capacity than lead acid. This allows bike starter batteries to be much smaller.

 

[MattW]

Ballistic are LiFePo dry cells a type of lithium cell. They cost double the price of an Odyssey AGM lead acid but are very small - an 8 cell will sit under the GS petrol tank. They don't suffer damage from self discharge. They have high CCA figures but don't work instantly in very cold conditions but a few start attempts will warm the battery and the engine will start. With lead acid you get one chance. If that's not enough you're stuck.
Lead acid starter batteries never give out their full charge content. E.g. 16AH is the current/time to fully charged but taking 16 amps for one hour (or 1 amp for 16 hours) will kill the battery. LiFePo can be flattened to dead like a power tool battery with no harm done. So they effectively have a higher power capacity than lead acid. This allows bike starter batteries to be much smaller.

Interesting.
I assume they must have suitable internal electronics to allow charging from the standard bike electrics?

With regards to my bike - I've just booked it into the dealer to get it sorted out (under warranty). My gut feeling is that lack of use / trickle charging has buggered the battery unless these new fangled 1200's have the same self-ungluing starter magnets as my old 1100.

 

[Steptoe]

Finally had the chance today to get out on my new to me TC which I bought just before Christmas.

Everything was fine when I initially started it but on each subsequent start it was sluggish to turn over and I got the battery symbol in the RID and a brake failure warning. Both these cleared after a few seconds running but I guess I shouldn't be seeing this?

Anyone else experienced this - I'd guess it means the battery is on it's way out?

It's sub 4000 mile, 2012 'approved used' bike bought from a dealer so is under warranty.

I've seen a few later abs (non servo) bikes where the brushes in the ABS modulator have stuck just after having a low battery.......

Co-incidence or linked ?? ...

 

[MattW]

I've seen a few later abs (non servo) bikes where the brushes in the ABS modulator have stuck just after having a low battery.......

Co-incidence or linked ?? ...

Hmm - interesting - I'll see what the dealer says next week...

 

[Delboy777]

I had the same on my 2010 GS and i thought it was the battery so i replaced it...........no difference. Eventually got it going with a jump from the car and bang the bloody alternator belt snapped. Alternator had siezed with sitting over the winter in the shed doing nowt. Its not an uncommon occurance apparently the bearing siezes up. Replaced under extended warranty.

 

[MattW]

Looks like my alternator is working ok (at least it runs the bike fine), it's just when I stop that I get the problem.

I've just checked the small print of my 'approved used' warranty.
Apparently batteries aren't covered but I'd hope that at 1 month and 75 miles into ownership they wouldn't quibble (and if it's the starter then it's covered anyway). I'll see what they say next Tuesday...

 

[MattW]

Well, to hopefully draw a line under this - I took it back to the dealer yesterday and they checked it out to find that the battery was goosed (as I suspected). Although batteries aren't covered under the approved used bike warranty, they replaced it as a 'good will' gesture.

I'll find out if it's fixed next weekend when it's been parked in a freezing field in Snowdonia for a couple of days

 

[Bendy toy]

Ballistic batteries are designed for bike (and car) electrical systems. They will however be damaged by a normal trickle charger. Thankfully they lose only 10% charge over 12 months with no damage don't need one.
Cost is double a AGM lead acid but great for where regular trickle charging is difficult or where more space is needed on the bike.

The BMW alternators can seize due to rust expanding the iron core laminations and jamming it solid. .