has anyone replaced the needle rollers of the paralever bearings with one on the solid bronze ones? If so what are you views. Theoretically it would seem to be a better bearing for such a pivot design, but if so why do BMW fit the troublesome needle roller??? Any views?
solid paralever bearings
- Thread starter warmshed
- Start date
troublesome ???? I'm still on my originals at 68K miles.
Remove and grease every now and again, plus make sure you never get any play as that's what damages them.
Theoretically it would be better because?
The rollers give line contact and the movement of the swinging arm does not allow for full rotation of the roller. A solid bearing spreads the load over a much larger area than the rollers. As soon as there is any wear on the roller it stops rotating due to the flat developing on the roller and from then on wear increases dramatically. Many people have trouble with these bearing on the BMWs so yes I feel they are troublesome.
now I have posted on similar threads before, but why is it that with almost every british bike that came with phosphor bronze bushings anywhere a market came in to being to replace them with roller or taper roller bearings, now we have taper roller bearings there is a market to replace them with bronze bushings.
The grass is not greener on the other side of the fence its just a different kind of grass, and for every problem that is solved by a bronze bush there will be others created. All you have to decide is what problem you want to be dealing with, but be under no illusion that replacing one with the other will remove ALL your problems because it sadly wont.
The grass is not greener on the other side of the fence its just a different kind of grass, and for every problem that is solved by a bronze bush there will be others created. All you have to decide is what problem you want to be dealing with, but be under no illusion that replacing one with the other will remove ALL your problems because it sadly wont.
Eloquently put, Bowser. However relating back to my question has anyone fitted them and if so what re your views? I accept roller bearings are a step forward for many problems with old bikes, I have replaced the ball races in the clutch and steering with them on my Velocette, needle rollers are a different animal altogether.
I accept there are different problems when you change something which is why I asked the question.
I accept there are different problems when you change something which is why I asked the question.
This is the problem. Reading the internet.
I'd want to know how the person has treated their original bearings before they start singing the praises of something different.
Especially americans, my how they love to use something different just for the sake of it and let everyone know how they've customised and re-engineered their bikes . .
This is the problem. Reading the internet.
I'd want to know how the person has treated their original bearings before they start singing the praises of something different.
Especially americans, my how they love to use something different just for the sake of it and let everyone know how they've customised and re-engineered their bikes . .
I was not a vote of support but perhaps a way of getting into the middle of Jan 11 via extensive boring reading....
I have rarely read about something that is a "winter project" in the US that actually needs doing...
S'cuse me I'm off out to the garage for the monthly clutch spline lube
Sorry but the rollers are of a small enough diameter to allow full rotation and if they are properly adjusted they will rotate, they will stop rotating if incorrectly adjusted. The line contact you describe is excellent as it allows a reservoir of grease to remain in the area. The rollers transfer the load evenly to the outer cage. Needle rollers are hardened and ground steel the rollers being slightly harder than the shell to reduce pick up. I've seen them last over 60k miles on early paralevers. Used extensively in shock absorber mounts, my Triumph Tiger has over 45k on the clock and the lower shock mount is a needle roller.
We've moved on since the good old days of 'stick a bit of phospor bronze in it'
Finally bronze bushes (loads of different grades dependent on composition) will wear rapidly (and become oval) under the hard use of a suspension system. Tried and tested properly fitted and maintained needle rollers will outlive any solid metal bushing.
If BMW had wanted the bike to have phosphor bronze bushes they would have designed them in. After all in the quantities they would use they would be so much cheaper than needle bearings.
I did my bearings recently and kept with the bearings.
Tom
I did my bearings recently and kept with the bearings.
Tom
skywalker
Guest
A complete waste of time. Fitted some for a customer on a R1150R (He supplied 'em) & wouldn't fit them again.
The inner bronze bush is an extremley tight fit on the pivot pins & even the instructions say if they're tight to relieve a bit of metal of them so they're a snug fit on the pins. Plus you have to loctite them on to the pins in the first place. The outer race looks for all like the've removed the needle rollers & cage from a set of std bearings.
Even when they're set up correctly the suspension movement at the back doesn't seem as fluid as it normally is.
As Steptoe says it all depends how you look after them and given that most people use jet washes then swear blind they don't its not surprising they last 30k.
Here's a thought though, I'm convinced that a lot of wear maybe down to the boxer power train itself since the same bearings are installed on the K series & I can count on 1 hand how many of them I've had to change over the years
The inner bronze bush is an extremley tight fit on the pivot pins & even the instructions say if they're tight to relieve a bit of metal of them so they're a snug fit on the pins. Plus you have to loctite them on to the pins in the first place. The outer race looks for all like the've removed the needle rollers & cage from a set of std bearings.
Even when they're set up correctly the suspension movement at the back doesn't seem as fluid as it normally is.
As Steptoe says it all depends how you look after them and given that most people use jet washes then swear blind they don't its not surprising they last 30k.
Here's a thought though, I'm convinced that a lot of wear maybe down to the boxer power train itself since the same bearings are installed on the K series & I can count on 1 hand how many of them I've had to change over the years
I've had four oilheads and all of them had the bearings fail at relativelly low mileage. Once they were replaced and torqued correctly none of them suffered the problem again.
These are the items in question - http://rubberchickenracinggarage.com/bushings.html
A few of the guys on Advrider have had problems with the bushes. Advrider post here - it gets interesting towards the end of the thread as the bubble bursts http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291712
These are the items in question - http://rubberchickenracinggarage.com/bushings.html
A few of the guys on Advrider have had problems with the bushes. Advrider post here - it gets interesting towards the end of the thread as the bubble bursts http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291712
Thanks Rob, the link gives the type of information I was looking for. I shall be staying with the OEM bearings but I do like keeping an eye open for upgrades. Just because BMW use something does not always make it the best option.
dancata
Registered user
As you can see in those pics, they were incorrectly mounted on the bike
The wear is not on all the bushing!
Dan.
norris
Registered user
Confucious say" There are two kinds of fool in the world, one who says "this is old so it must be good" and one who says "this is new so it must be better".
.
As you can see in those pics, they were incorrectly mounted on the bike
The wear is not on all the bushing!
Dan.
There's far too many people having problems with these bushes to discount that one as a one off.
Have you had first hand experience of them?
From looking at your pictures it seems that the outer edge of the bush was bigger than that of the hardened outer shell.
When tightened up the bearing would be trapped on the edge of the outer shell, preventing it from turning with the shaft. This would also prevent the sliding face from being adjusted correctly with the outer shell and give the wear shown. Maybe if it had be produced correctly, it would have been Ok?.
When tightened up the bearing would be trapped on the edge of the outer shell, preventing it from turning with the shaft. This would also prevent the sliding face from being adjusted correctly with the outer shell and give the wear shown. Maybe if it had be produced correctly, it would have been Ok?.
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