Starting Issues - 2005 GS

[NeilMac]

I recently bought a 2005 R1200GS with 26,000 miles on the clock from a guy I know and trust.

The story that came with the bike was that it was last ridden a few years ago (turns out to be four years) and has been started from time to time, but not recently.

It has been stored outside under a cover for the last couple of years and when I got it the battery was dead.

New Motobatt MBYZ16HD was purchased from Motor Works along with all the consumables to perform a full service... which I am happy to do myself as a pretty competent amateur mechanic.

With the battery fitted I turned on the ignition, let the checklist run through and pressed the started switch. All I got was two clicks from the starter solenoid.

There then followed a lot of checking, cleaning, disassembling and reassembling of various bits of the bike, following other threads on both this and other BMW forums.

Still no progress.

Since then I have done the following.

Cleaned all positive connections and checked continuity with a meter.
Installed a brand new starter.
Removed the tank, found and thoroughly cleaned both the negative grounding point on the engine and the alternator output. The negative lead was also checked for continuity, which was fine.
Turned the engine over on the front crank to make sure 1) the engine is not seized, (2) the alternator rotates. I also put the bike in gear and could get rotation of the rear wheel by turning the engine by hand (plugs out).

In a final attempt to get the bike to start / turn over. I fully charged the battery and fully charged a spare car battery.

On just the bike battery, all I get it the solenoid clicking in. With the plugs all out and the car battery hooked up, I just about go the bike to turn over a couple of revs. I installed a new set of plugs, re attached all the coils, hooked the bike up to my SUV, ran the engine with my wife giving the car some revs and still the best I can get is a few occasional rotations from the engine.

I hear the fuel pump prime, so I know that's working, but I am at a complete loss as to what is sucking up all the power that should be turning the engine over.

Any advice would be more than welcome.

 

[Smiffypr]

re: "ran the engine with my wife giving the car some revs". Don't do that, it's a really good way of frying sensitive electronics.
I would suggest that you measure voltages while the starter button is pressed. Check voltage at battery (meter probes on the + & - battery terminals, not the connectors), and the voltage between the starter motor battery terminal and starter body. Repeat with the spare car battery connected to the bike battery.

 

[Steptoe]

Are you sure the alternator can spin freely. Remove the alternator belt and see if the engine turns over …. I’ve had a few bikes in with identical problem as yours, and it’s been a seized or semi-seized alternator each time

 

[NeilMac]

Smiffy. I'll take your advice, but I am not sure how putting 12 to 14v into a 12v battery can fry electronics.

Steptoe. I can turn the engine by hand using the nut at the end of the crankshaft and watch the alternator turn. I am not feeling any resistance or binding.

Also, while the tank was off I gave the alternator a good inspection as I saw the photo of a broken one that you posted in another thread. I didn't see any damage.

Just to add: I found the relay under the tool tray that is activated by the start button on the grip. I didn't open it up but pulled it and put it back into the socket, just in case there was a crusty joint. I also opened up the switchgear on the grip and got some contact cleaner in there. A voltage check between the black wire that plugs into the starter solenoid and the negative battery terminal showed no voltage drop at all when the start button is pressed.

I also pulled the starter out again. Checked it on a car battery then checked the original starter, the new one has a bit more go in it, as you'd expect, so I then hooked it up onto the bike, but not installed and tested it. Before messing with the relay it would not hold the bendix in, afterwards it worked absolutely perfectly.

Reinstalled in the bike I am still getting exactly the same symptoms.

I am not totally convinced the new battery is not the issue.

Looking up the date code, it was manufactured two years ago. It is taking charge and holding it, but it is scratching at the back of my mind.

 

[Santa-2512]

Smiffy. I'll take your advice, but I am not sure how putting 12 to 14v into a 12v battery can fry electronics.

Steptoe. I can turn the engine by hand using the nut at the end of the crankshaft and watch the alternator turn. I am not feeling any resistance or binding.

Also, while the tank was off I gave the alternator a good inspection as I saw the photo of a broken one that you posted in another thread. I didn't see any damage.

Just to add: I found the relay under the tool tray that is activated by the start button on the grip. I didn't open it up but pulled it and put it back into the socket, just in case there was a crusty joint. I also opened up the switchgear on the grip and got some contact cleaner in there. A voltage check between the black wire that plugs into the starter solenoid and the negative battery terminal showed no voltage drop at all when the start button is pressed.

I also pulled the starter out again. Checked it on a car battery then checked the original starter, the new one has a bit more go in it, as you'd expect, so I then hooked it up onto the bike, but not installed and tested it. Before messing with the relay it would not hold the bendix in, afterwards it worked absolutely perfectly.

Reinstalled in the bike I am still getting exactly the same symptoms.

I am not totally convinced the new battery is not the issue.

Looking up the date code, it was manufactured two years ago. It is taking charge and holding it, but it is scratching at the back of my mind.

top tip

If Steptoe, gives you a bit of advice.. take it , use it, try it.

He is one of a few gents on here who knows more about the marque than you or i, and half the community will ever know

 

[NeilMac]

top tip

If Steptoe, gives you a bit of advice.. take it , use it, try it.

He is one of a few gents on here who knows more about the marque than you or i, and half the community will ever know

OK.

Will do.

 

[TLSgazza]

top tip

If Steptoe, gives you a bit of advice.. take it , use it, try it.

He is one of a few gents on here who knows more about the marque than you or i, and half the community will ever know

2nd paragraph post #4 it looks like he did.

 

[Santa-2512]

2nd paragraph post #4 it looks like he did.

No, he was asked to remove the alternator belt and turn the bike over, op said he turned it over and watched the alternator turn

The only way the alternator turns is if the belt is connected

 

[NeilMac]

No, he was asked to remove the alternator belt and turn the bike over, op said he turned it over and watched the alternator turn

The only way the alternator turns is if the belt is connected

Yup, the belt was still on.

But, good advice is good advice, so I need to get the belt off.

I've been out and bought a 34mm socket and had to remove the engine bars in order to get access, so tomorrow the belt will come off, just as soon as I have cut myself a strip of plastic.

 

[botus]

hard to believe but they do stop them moving - my brothers Renault based Vauxhall diesel tractor wouldn't turn over no matter what - it too was a seized alternator....

as an aside it would turn over when pushing it backwards in a forward gear - making me think a timing chain had snapped and fallen down inside and was creating a horrible mess - but that was more tricks - with a spanner on the crank, the drive belt tensioner would unwind the tension, thus allowing the drive belt to slip around the alternator pulley when it was going the wrong way...

 

[NeilMac]

OK.

Alternator belt eased off.

The alternator spins freely and on pressing the starter button, with a battery that has been on charge since yesterday evening..... exactly the same symptom.

The solenoid click, click, clicks, possibly trying to turn the motor, but after two or three clicks the bike says 'enough' and stops the solenoid.

Repeated jabs of the starter button give the same results.

The search continues, cos something, somewhere is sucking up them amps.

 

[NeilMac]

To add to my last post.

With the alternator belt still off, I have run a wire direct (as a get around) to the starter solenoid, effectively taking the switch, relay and wiring out of the equation.

Using that wire to energise the solenoid, the engine turned over... just. I then jumped a car battery, freshly off charge onto the bike battery and for a few revs everything turned over, but both batteries were soon depleted to the point where they couldn't turn the engine over any more.

With the jump battery disconnected, the voltage on the bike battery is about 12.5 volts, the voltage drops to about 2.2v when I use my get around to try and turn the engine over and then returns to 12v as soon as the load is removed.

Time to phone Motor Works and speak to them about this battery.

 

[TLSgazza]

No, he was asked to remove the alternator belt and turn the bike over, op said he turned it over and watched the alternator turn

The only way the alternator turns is if the belt is connected

But he did say the following...

"Steptoe. I can turn the engine by hand using the nut at the end of the crankshaft and watch the alternator turn. I am not feeling any resistance or binding"

Which led me to believe the alternator was turning ok.

Reading later posts it apparently is.

 

[Santa-2512]

Try running a separate feed to the starter direct from the battery

I had no end of problems with poor starting especially when hot

Starter was the culprit,

Btw Tayna batteries are prettty good for batteries

 

[NeilMac]

Try running a separate feed to the starter direct from the battery

I had no end of problems with poor starting especially when hot

Starter was the culprit,

Btw Tayna batteries are prettty good for batteries

I'll give that a go, but I have already fitted a brand new starter and brand new Motobatt 16.5 Ah battery.

I have spoken to Motor Works, they couldn't think of anything I may have overlooked but said they would test the battery if I returned it. I am pretty sure a mate of mine has a proper battery tester, so that might be something to try.

 

[botus]

simple - no need for a starter motor - with a big hill and a big rider, it will bump start sometimes in second gear (if he's really big and really compresses the suspension) - or a bigger hill / fast support runner third will get the engine to turn over after a leaving smaller black line

no hill and no one else don't even try you likely won't manage first time - then its all down hill as you'll get tired very quickly

 

[NeilMac]

Off the wall question: What if the engine was overfilled with oil?

By maybe 500ml?

I noticed when I first got the bike that the sight glass was completely full, that's fine for my 650 VStrom, it likes a nice full sump, but could I be suffering, if not a hydraulic lock, then enough internal drag to cause an issue?

The contents of the sump are currently dripping into my rather full 5l catch tray.... a posh name for an old 5l metal oil tin with the side cut out.

 

[botus]

you need to check the level after its run around the bike... 500ml is not enough to care about for your issue anyway

Checking the oil level with the engine cold or after no more than a short ride will lead to misinterpretation;
this in turn, means that the engine will be operated with the incorrect quantity of oil.
In order to ensure that the engine oil level is read correctly, check the oil level only after a lengthy trip.

Make sure the ground is level and firm and place the motorcycle on its centre stand.
Wait five minutes after switching off the engine at operating temperature

 

[Santa-2512]

I'll give that a go, but I have already fitted a brand new starter and brand new Motobatt 16.5 Ah battery.

I have spoken to Motor Works, they couldn't think of anything I may have overlooked but said they would test the battery if I returned it. I am pretty sure a mate of mine has a proper battery tester, so that might be something to try.

Best of luck trying to return it,
Most carriers, wont accept batteries, and the ones that do...

Cheaper to buy another battery

 

[Santa-2512]

When you say new starter

New as in brand new or sh new

My fubarred starter was checked ok by a reman place, but wouldnt turn the bike over when hot

A brand new starter cured it

And a motobatt battery