Starting issues

[AArman]

Hi everyone

Having problems with starting my 07 gs with 50k miles.

Bike all of a sudden deicided not to start in a bid trip.
When turning ignition on nothing happens.

Managed to get home by shorting at starter with pliers.

First assumed might be a relay but after changing it problem persists.

Measured voltage between battery and starter only getting 2v

Anyone input appreciated

Aarman

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[Bem]

Hi everyone

Having problems with starting my 07 gs with 50k miles.

Bike all of a sudden deicided not to start in a bid trip.
When turning ignition on nothing happens.

Managed to get home by shorting at starter with pliers.

First assumed might be a relay but after changing it problem persists.

Measured voltage between battery and starter only getting 2v

Anyone input appreciated

Aarman

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Start with the obvious - what condition is your battery in? What age?
If static volts is less than 12.2 its toast.
If you have a friendly garage then thay can put a tester on the battery - they might charge you a fiver for doing this.
Your measured voltage of 2v is interesting.
Please report back with your investigations.
And doubtless there will be other contributions.

 

[Slipperyeel]

If you got it started by bypassing the normal route, then maybe it's a corroded earth issue?



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[AArman]

Thanks for input and apologise for not replying.

So here im back again. Due to many other life twist bike was on a ramp all this time and neglected.But here im back attempting this again.

To correct myself voltage to starter is 12.4v battery is in healthy condition.
I have salvaged i replacement started thinking it might be solenoid. But with no luck.

I have tested starter relay wiring loom and everything ticked all boxes. I am confident there is no brake in there.

I do get power to start button and past it as well.
I have checked side stand switch
Checked clutch switch

I am not sure what else to check here.


Aarman

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[streaky]

Thanks for input and apologise for not replying.

So here im back again. Due to many other life twist bike was on a ramp all this time and neglected.But here im back attempting this again.

To correct myself voltage to starter is 12.4v battery is in healthy condition.
I have salvaged i replacement started thinking it might be solenoid. But with no luck.

I have tested starter relay wiring loom and everything ticked all boxes. I am confident there is no brake in there.

I do get power to start button and past it as well.
I have checked side stand switch
Checked clutch switch

I am not sure what else to check here.


Aarman

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Ignition ring would be my first point of call,

 

[Santa-2512]

Ignition ring would be my first point of call,

Why? if the ignition ring was showing a fault there would be a warning on the Kombi

I#d start as the others have said, by checking and replacing the battery, an old or failing battery will manifest many issues

If a new battery does not resolve the issue, a 2nd set of power feeds to the starter would be my next step - £15 from Halfords

Failing that i would then look at the starter, Solenoids are not replaceable , its a refurb or new unit

 

[AArman]

New battery was already tried. New relay and starter installed. Wiring loom been tested, with no success.

Miatery still prevails

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[Santa-2512]

New battery was already tried. New relay and starter installed. Wiring loom been tested, with no success.

Miatery still prevails

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Have you run a starter bypass ?


New relay & starter fitted as in ?

Brand spankers out of the box new - or SH new

Sounds like a bad earth / connection somewhere

 

[SBD]

Shorting at starter with pliers. Suggests solenoid failed. Try running wire from battery + to solenoid - If that works, it’s the wiring, if it doesn’t, it’s the solenoid, I suggest.

 

[AArman]

Have you run a starter bypass ?


New relay & starter fitted as in ?

Brand spankers out of the box new - or SH new

Sounds like a bad earth / connection somewhere

Brand new relay and starter from MW.

What you mean bypass.
At the moment only way to start the bike is shortening at starter.

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[AArman]

Shorting at starter with pliers. Suggests solenoid failed. Try running wire from battery + to solenoid - If that works, it’s the wiring, if it doesn’t, it’s the solenoid, I suggest.

Solenoid was suggested faul, to which i bought brand new starter.

I have just tried running a wire from battery + to solenoid + with luck.

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[Santa-2512]

Solenoid was suggested faul, to which i bought brand new starter.

I have just tried running a wire from battery + to solenoid + with luck.

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Do both +Ve & -Ve

 

[Gelandestrasse]

A bad connection at the earth of the starter relay would cause this. If it starts at the starter by shorting then there is good 12V to starter. I've not seen/changed a start relay on these but from general principles if the relay is new and good then the connection to the relay might be bad (especially the earth).

Check the continuity between the relay connections and where they should come from. I guess a faulty start button/circuit might also be a culprit. Check 'em all. Look for chafed areas of the loom.

 

[AArman]

Do both +Ve & -Ve

I have. With no success

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[AArman]

A bad connection at the earth of the starter relay would cause this. If it starts at the starter by shorting then there is good 12V to starter. I've not seen/changed a start relay on these but from general principles if the relay is new and good then the connection to the relay might be bad (especially the earth).

Check the continuity between the relay connections and where they should come from. I guess a faulty start button/circuit might also be a culprit. Check 'em all. Look for chafed areas of the loom.

I went through relay loom and couldn't find anything.
I have checked handlebar switch before and was getting voltage in and out when pressed.

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[SBD]

A bad connection at the earth of the starter relay would cause this. If it starts at the starter by shorting then there is good 12V to starter. I've not seen/changed a start relay on these but from general principles if the relay is new and good then the connection to the relay might be bad (especially the earth).

Check the continuity between the relay connections and where they should come from. I guess a faulty start button/circuit might also be a culprit. Check 'em all. Look for chafed areas of the loom.

I agree, it’s obvious that the battery, the starter motor itself, are ok.

What I don’t understand is where you’re shorting with the pliers to get it to start the bike.


Presume the motor looks like this. You have a fat wire from battery to the threaded stud shown at the top, and ground via the engine. The other connections are (presumably) a fat wire from the solenoid to the motor and the terminal for the +12 from the starter tit. I guess this is a spade?

what are you shorting with the pliers? If you do stud to stud, the solenoid won’t engage but the motor should spin. If you do stud to spade and it all works, this suggests you’re not getting volts from the starter button.

You’ve checked this connection with a multimeter - it should go to +12 when you press the starter. You said you’d done this and it’s ok.

Never known the solenoid ground connection to be an issue, as they’re usually grounded with the starter motor to the engine, and we know that’s connected ok.

seems to me that it starting when shorted with pliers confirms the solenoid, starter motor and heavy wiring is ok, and your posts above say that the light wiring to the solenoid is ok. Got to be one or the other, I guess?

 

[Gelandestrasse]

SBD: "What I don’t understand is where you’re shorting with the pliers to get it to start the bike."

All starters have a permanent live (red in this case) and a switched live (black). The body of the starter motor is bolted to the engine and that is the earth path. So you take a deep breath and short the red to the black. Sparks expected! You can test a starter motor in the vice this way. Jump leads to the body and the big red terminal. Screwdriver across to the spade connector - magic! Safe? Debatable. Get-you-home? Definitely!

 

[Gelandestrasse]

I went through relay loom and couldn't find anything.
I have checked handlebar switch before and was getting voltage in and out when pressed.

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The line from the relay to the black terminal?? Tried that? Running out of ideas! Is that yellow thing the start relay?

 

[SBD]

SBD: "What I don’t understand is where you’re shorting with the pliers to get it to start the bike."

All starters have a permanent live (red in this case) and a switched live (black). The body of the starter motor is bolted to the engine and that is the earth path. So you take a deep breath and short the red to the black. Sparks expected! You can test a starter motor in the vice this way. Jump leads to the body and the big red terminal. Screwdriver across to the spade connector - magic! Safe? Debatable. Get-you-home? Definitely!

Don’t agree.

Assuming it is a pre-engaged starter motor, like the picture I posted, if you short the two big fat stud terminals on the solenoid, the motor will surely spin, but the solenoid will not be energised, and will not engage the pinion in the flywheel gear, so it won’t start the bike.

if you want to start the bike, you have to short the battery side of the solenoid to the coil of the solenoid, and then assuming it all works, the solenoid will pull in, then the motor will spin, and if you’re lucky, the engine starts.

 

[Gelandestrasse]

Don’t agree.

Assuming it is a pre-engaged starter motor, like the picture I posted, if you short the two big fat stud terminals on the solenoid, the motor will surely spin, but the solenoid will not be energised, and will not engage the pinion in the flywheel gear, so it won’t start the bike.

if you want to start the bike, you have to short the battery side of the solenoid to the coil of the solenoid, and then assuming it all works, the solenoid will pull in, then the motor will spin, and if you’re lucky, the engine starts.

So now I'm confused! You don't understand how to use pliers to short out a starter motor - yet you do in your explanation where you corrected me! Or am I missing something?

On my GSA there are 2 connections to the starter (like on my airheads). If you connect them together, the solenoid acts and the motor spins. And the engine turns. I could have got all this completely wrong so forgive me if I have.