Starting issues

[Andy63]

There's a lot of good advice within this thread, here's my experience with my old Hexhead with similar milage, although the diagnosis is slightly different it's always worth checking.

Mine started stalling/cutting out for no reason while out riding eventually failing to start.
Fairly common fault with Hexheads are the cables from the ignition switch become brittle the plastic insulation coating cracks and moisture gets in corroding the copper wires until they break.

Sometimes just turning the handle bars can give enough to make a contact and this is a good test to diagnose the issue.
The fix (if it is this) is to chase the three cables from (below) the ignition barrel into the cable loom under the headstock until you find a damaged wire.

Might be worth investigating.

 

[SBD]

So now I'm confused! You don't understand how to use pliers to short out a starter motor - yet you do in your explanation where you corrected me! Or am I missing something?

On my GSA there are 2 connections to the starter (like on my airheads). If you connect them together, the solenoid acts and the motor spins. And the engine turns. I could have got all this completely wrong so forgive me if I have.

I didn’t say I didn’t know how to, I said I didn’t understand where the OP was doing the shorting - I was hoping he’d explain and confirm what I believe must be the case.

if so, his starter motor, solenoid and high current wiring are ok, and the issue is elsewhere - as suggested in post #21. That’s what I wanted to confirm, one way or the other, as I expect that narrows the search.

 

[Buckingham]

You need to test at the thin wire that plugs onto the solenoid - this wire should go hot (12V) when you press the starter button. You've already proven the high current feed to the starter & the earth return path.
Check the wire for 12v when starter button pressed & still connected to the solenoid so is under load.
If no 12v, trace back to the starter relay (thin black wire). Is the starter relay clicking when you press the button, hear & feel it ?

 

[AArman]

Thanks all for all the input.

So here is what im getting
(battery starting to loose V with all this testing and dont have access to a grid in a lockup for trickle charger)

At starter its measuring just over 12v with ignition on and off.

At relay terminal 4 and 8 with ignition on 8.4V, when button pressed now 11.96V. But when relay placed back it doesn't trigger.

I have tested nr 6 black wire from solenoid and live nr 2 and they are healthy.

I have managed to get spare wiring loom for dissection and trying to using to trace the fault.

Battery starting to run low as well, so will need to take it home with me to charge.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Buckingham]

Have you measured the resistance of the relay coil between pins 4 and 8 ? At a guess, I'd expect say 20 to 50 ohms as a rough guide.
Connect a 12v supply between pins 4 & 8 - you should hear the relay click. (that's pins 85 & 86 on the relay)

 

[AArman]

Have you measured the resistance of the relay coil between pins 4 and 8 ? At a guess, I'd expect say 20 to 50 ohms as a rough guide.
Connect a 12v supply between pins 4 & 8 - you should hear the relay click. (that's pins 85 & 86 on the relay)

Relay was tested first thing and then replaced with new. New tested as well.
Everything works

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[knutk]

If I understand correctly, we know the following:
- #1: When hitting the starter-button, the engine will not crank.
- #2: Shorting the two external terminals on the starter will start the engine, and the bike is drivable

#2 learn us the following:
- Clutchswitch, sidestand switch and geraposition signal is not causing a problem.

Thus, hitting the starter button should signal the starter relay, which will signal the starter to crank the engine

Look at the wiring diagram, and focus on the starter relay:

- When hitting the starter, the voltage across pins #8 and #4 should be 12V.
- Both pin #4 and #8 are connected to the BMS. Based on the wire-color, pin #4 may be grounded continously, or it may not. The only reliable reading for a proper start-signal from the BMS is a reading of 12V between #4 and #8 when the starter button is pushed.

Pin #2 is hot-wired to the battery and should always read battery voltage, and #6 leads to one of the outside terminals on the starter solenoid.
Thus a properly working starter relay will perform the same task as if you short the two outside terminals on the starter.

With starter relay removed from the socket:
- Connecting a jumper-wire between #2 and #6 should crank the engine... If not, there is a loom issue.

- The voltage between #4 and #8 should read 12V. If not there may be a loom issue between relay and BMS, or a starterbutton issue. Get hold of some diagnostic and get a live readout of button and switch operation...


If all above is working, the engine will start....

 

[Santa-2512]

Do you have access to a a couple of clamp meters & multi meters

You have a number of options

Clamp meter on all leads, and see what is being pulled with no load and what is being pulled when you press the starter

I know this is going to sound daft, but have you verified the new starter motor on another bike?

You may have a defective unit - chance in a million, but ...

Electricity has to flow, to stop it, you either need something to draw all the available power or a break , to stop the flow / return

If the former, something would be getting hot / glowing if it was drawing all the power from the battery,

so that would suggest no circuit / flow either to the starter (either side) or the return ,

hence the clamp meters, if you could see what part of the circuit are hot or cold so to speak , may give you a pointer

do you have a GS911? are there any stored codes?

The starter circuit is pretty simple

The only other thing i can think of, is do you have power from the ZFe, to pins 4 & 8 and when you press the starter button, do you get power on 6

Have you got the right relay, and is it working correctly ?

I'm confused by your relay pic, looking at the pin outs & Haynes,

Pins 85 & 86 are the energiser coil, which gets its feed from the ZFe

When this is under power it pulls the relay bridge which allows power to flow through 87 &30

Which is the feed to the stater solenoid ( which is again another relay , which allows the big current and amps to run through the starter)

If ive read it right ,your pic is showing pins 87 & 30 with a circuit,

it should be no circuit until pins 85 & 86 have power

 

[knutk]

Just for the record...

 

[Buckingham]

So ignition on, bike in neutral, sidestand up, press starter button, does the starter relay click or not ? (feel it or listen)

 

[Buckingham]

BTW, you black meter lead should be plugged into the COM socket on your meter ! Looks like you've got it in the wrong hole.......