Stuck gearbox plug

[jobjobbed]

I don't think the threads will corrode on these plugs, as the sealing washer is between the head of the bolt and the casing so there is oil in the threads. Certainly no sign of corrosion on these that had not been touched for 10 years. I did start the impact gun on the lowest setting then increased it until the bolt started to move. if it didn't move the next stage was to heat the gearbox then fit a piece of short pipe over the plug and use some plumbers pipe freeze spray to freeze the plug.

 

[theoneandonly]

strangely , i have used my gun on stuff that failed to move , long breaker bar and it comes loose . a gun isn't always the best way .
ps , my gun has snapped M12 bolts before so it ain't weedy !

 

[Wrigsby1]

Done it, they weren't corroded, just done up farking tight, I used my friends 1/2" impact gun and a decent set of hex bits.

Just don't do it up with the gun.... PS... The obsession with stainless often misses that stainless threads are a tighter fit... My experience and I've never had a problem with original decent quality BMW bolts... Just folk get a think for aesthetics over function...

 

[Pete.]

Stainless galls, welds and that's your lot. Don't use a nut gun or impact driver on stainless not even for just running stuff in. Stainless on stainless is the worst, stainless on mild steel is hit and miss and stainless on ally is usually no real problem.

As for sump and filler plugs and all those type of things - never underestimate the value of a good old fashioned hand-operated impact driver. I like to use my batery impact driver as much as I can but sometimes the old thumper is the only tool. I've even got a miniature one for 3/8" and 1/4" sockets.

 

[jobjobbed]

Stainless galls, welds and that's your lot. Don't use a nut gun or impact driver on stainless not even for just running stuff in. Stainless on stainless is the worst, stainless on mild steel is hit and miss and stainless on ally is usually no real problem.

As for sump and filler plugs and all those type of things - never underestimate the value of a good old fashioned hand-operated impact driver. I like to use my batery impact driver as much as I can but sometimes the old thumper is the only tool. I've even got a miniature one for 3/8" and 1/4" sockets.

Is it the speed with which impact guns work that does the damage?

 

[Pete.]

Is it the speed with which impact guns work that does the damage?

If you're talking about when using stainless steel fasteners then yes indeed. Never screw a stainless fastener into steel (and certainly not into stainless steel) using power tools. Just running a nut down a bolt can cause it. You can do it with hand tools too, it's just not so likely.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Is it the speed with which impact guns work that does the damage?

To be honest I was always taught if it didn;t go after a half a dozen Ugga Duggas? To break it loose with a decent pull bar and socket and then run it in or out with the Impact But just to contact plus one Ugga Dugga and then torque it correctly!

For me Most of the plugs that I have had trouble removing have always broken loose with a "decent direct crack" with a hammer and its just a small engineering hammer that I have had since I was a pup in the workshop Still the same handle (Shorter by an inch but still the same one)

I believe that the alloy crush washer corrodes, and expands and "Pushes" the steel away from the sealing face and loads the pressure on the threads up effectively over torqueing the plug

By cracking it with the hammer it shocks the corrosion, loosens the pressure and lets you undo the plug a LOT easier ?

well that's what I think and so far I have managed to get all the plugs out for the last 20 odd years (which is where the problems started LOL "Alloy Sealing washers!"

 

[jobjobbed]

To be honest I was always taught if it didn;t go after a half a dozen Ugga Duggas? To break it loose with a decent pull bar and socket and then run it in or out with the Impact But just to contact plus one Ugga Dugga and then torque it correctly!

For me Most of the plugs that I have had trouble removing have always broken loose with a "decent direct crack" with a hammer and its just a small engineering hammer that I have had since I was a pup in the workshop Still the same handle (Shorter by an inch but still the same one)

I believe that the alloy crush washer corrodes, and expands and "Pushes" the steel away from the sealing face and loads the pressure on the threads up effectively over torqueing the plug

By cracking it with the hammer it shocks the corrosion, loosens the pressure and lets you undo the plug a LOT easier ?

well that's what I think and so far I have managed to get all the plugs out for the last 20 odd years (which is where the problems started LOL "Alloy Sealing washers!"

I've put copper washers back in, I don't like ally ones, copper as long as its not deformed can be annealed and re used, but then I am a tight farmer

 

[DrFarkoff]

I've put copper washers back in, I don't like ally ones, copper as long as its not deformed can be annealed and re used, but then I am a tight farmer

If you buy OC91D filters New washers come in the box

 

[jobjobbed]

If you buy OC91D filters New washers come in the box

they were alloy!

 

[Wrigsby1]

Re alloy washers... Over the last 15 years I've had at least 3x oil leaks due to alloy washers... I "think" they are used as they deform more easily for a seal under torque but I've had the corrosion "creep" eating a part of a washer... 2x under pressure so more messy Inc a comedy one on my old DL thou leading to a well oiled back tyre...
Some of this is down to the stresses of winter riding but not all...

 

[DrFarkoff]

they were alloy!

Yessssssssss!!

They come INCLUDED in that box for you to change them every service

IN reality they last fine for 6000 miles and as long as you torque them Appropriately and not Farmer tight!! ! They are absolutely fine and have been for "decades"

 

[DrFarkoff]

Re alloy washers... Over the last 15 years I've had at least 3x oil leaks due to alloy washers... I "think" they are used as they deform more easily for a seal under torque but I've had the corrosion "creep" eating a part of a washer... 2x under pressure so more messy Inc a comedy one on my old DL thou leading to a well oiled back tyre...
Some of this is down to the stresses of winter riding but not all...

Same with the Oil cooler pipe unions (beside oil level sightglass) and Oil temp sender on the Oilheads

Easy fixes and Quick if attended to in good time rather than letting it Pish out

 

[jobjobbed]

Yessssssssss!!

They come INCLUDED in that box for you to change them every service

IN reality they last fine for 6000 miles and as long as you torque them Appropriately and not Farmer tight!! ! They are absolutely fine and have been for "decades"

That reminds me I suppose I ought to buy a torque wrench, rather than guessing, along the lines of, if that spanner is a foot long then that feels like about 60lb of pressure etc

 

[Wrigsby1]

Same with the Oil cooler pipe unions (beside oil level sightglass) and Oil temp sender on the Oilheads

Easy fixes and Quick if attended to in good time rather than letting it Pish out

Yep, the two non BMWs have been oil cooler but not my much maligned, heavily abused GSs... Last year it was the sump plug and TBH it was a triple shite winter and not cleaned... This year it's heavily cleaned... By the constant standing water and the odd or not so odd local flood ...

 

[DrFarkoff]

That reminds me I suppose I ought to buy a torque wrench, rather than guessing, along the lines of, if that spanner is a foot long then that feels like about 60lb of pressure etc

Cough Cough

32 NM sump plug

30 NM gearbox filler/drain

23 NM rear drive fill/drain

Oil filter is until hand tight and 3/4 of a turn that is Three quarters of a turn.... Not 3 or 4 Farmer Booiiiiii! They say 11Nm but that hand tight and 3/4 of a turn was the instruction when I was at the BM workshop supervisor by a 30 odd year BM master tech when mentioned that surely there is an easier way instead of getting a torque wrench every time!

The OC306 used to have that printed on it in french

 

[steadysteve]

Cough Cough

32 NM sump plug

30 NM gearbox filler/drain

23 NM rear drive fill/drain

Oil filter is until hand tight and 3/4 of a turn that is Three quarters of a turn.... Not 3 or 4 Farmer Booiiiiii! They say 11Nm but that hand tight and 3/4 of a turn was the instruction when I was at the BM workshop supervisor by a 30 odd year BM master tech when mentioned that surely there is an easier way instead of getting a torque wrench every time!

The OC306 used to have that printed on it in french

It always amazes me how little force is needed to hit the recommended torque setting.
Example:- Wife’s Corsa sump plug is only 14nM. I usually do it finger right and then the torque wrench barely moves it to get the desired torque.

Based on this, and I’m not saying you’re categorically wrong as you do it for a living, your suggestion of adding three quarters of a turn once the oil filter is hand tight sounds excessive. Any thoughts Doc?

Last time I changed a filter on a BMW bike was a 2005 RT. I seem to remember the recommendation was to screw it down finger tight plus a quarter turn. That was still plenty tight enough when it came to removing the next time it was due. I doubt whether it could have been turned 3/4 of a turn by hand.

 

[Wrigsby1]

It always depends on how strong yer hands are... Must be winter if we're discussing how tight the filter goes...

 

[DrFarkoff]

I doubt whether it could have been turned 3/4 of a turn by hand.

the French have it well explained



Oil lightly the joint of the lid

Screw until contact

Tighten by hand 3/4 of a turn

 

[DrFarkoff]

It always depends on how strong yer hands are... Must be winter if we're discussing how tight the filter goes...

The UN-Beeeee-Leeevers have gathered at the gates !!!!

(Not you ya Gaunch!)