thanks to all those who replied to a basic queston ,the view tends to be split , theres not much choice , you get bmw or hein gericke , or rukka, these seem to be the popular choice , i think ill go downthe route of bmw ,only because i like the fit ,etc ,if it pisses down ill put on my bm waterproofs (which defeats the object of buying goretex ...ho hum) thanks ..dave