That Montjuic of mine

[Deleted account 240831001]

Big day Monday because the scallies known as Parcelforce are delivering the cylinder head now I’ve paid £20.94 vat and a £12 handling charge. The vat is a joke because the guy who sent it put it down on the form as being returned goods so where they got the figure from nobody knows and the £12 charge is standard because they did the vat collection.

It’s only money and a mere drop in the ocean compared to what’s already been poured into the money pit.

 

[barny]

Big day Monday because the scallies known as Parcelforce are delivering the cylinder head now I’ve paid £20.94 vat and a £12 handling charge. The vat is a joke because the guy who sent it put it down on the form as being returned goods so where they got the figure from nobody knows and the £12 charge is standard because they did the vat collection.

It’s only money and a mere drop in the ocean compared to what’s already been poured into the money pit.

I've had the same thing with vat and handling charges, but there was a company I have used in the US that would send via UPS and on the packaging put "second hand parts value £6" I never got any additional charges. Most parcels were £60 + New Suzuki parts.

 

[(RIP) Johno23]

Big day Monday because the scallies known as Parcelforce are delivering the cylinder head now I’ve paid £20.94 vat and a £12 handling charge. The vat is a joke because the guy who sent it put it down on the form as being returned goods so where they got the figure from nobody knows and the £12 charge is standard because they did the vat collection.

It’s only money and a mere drop in the ocean compared to what’s already been poured into the money pit.

I’m like forward to seeing it come back together...........

 

[Deleted account 240831001]

I’m like forward to seeing it come back together...........

I was in the workshop yesterday measuring everything to see if there’s any way I can fit the cylinder head after the rest of the engine is in the frame then I can move things along while waiting for shims. It’s close and it might be that I can do it if the engine is tipped one way or the other either on the rear mount or the front one only

It’d make a lot of sense because it’s lighter to lump in on my own and it’s always easier to fit engines when the forks and front wheel aren’t in the way.

 

[Deleted account 240831001]

That’s it, forks fitted and calipers mounted and ready for the wheel to go in. Where’s my fucking wheels!

I’d have taken a better photo if I could wheel it out of the workshop

I need to change the dust covers because he’s used the original ones which are a bit perished and I want some clips to stop those braided lines knocking shit out of everything. The fork tubes look good, properly finished with no rough grinding marks to wear the seals out inside 1k miles.

Equally as importantly the man from parcelforce dropped this off at the same time

I’ve checked the guides and they’re bang on mid limit so they’re staying and first look suggests the seats are good so I’ll vapour blast it and work out shim sizes.

Yep, I’m officially a happy Laverda owner for at least 24 hours until I’ve cleaned up the head and given it a proper inspection.

 

[mikeyboy]

Might be worth checking that your camshafts have clearance to turn in the new head .
the old head had what looked like rough cutouts to clear the lobes.

 

[Deleted account 240831001]

I think the only things hacked around are the pillars that go over the studs but I’ll certainly be checking. It came off a Montjuic so should be ok

I’ve checked the shim buckets have the correct clearance in the head because if they’d been tight it would seize solid and they’re ok, the guides were bang on mid limit so the next thing was to check that they’re standard ones and haven’t been modified to take different seals when seals were unobtainable and fortunately the seals sit down correctly so that’s good. The valve seats look as if the valves have sat in a narrow band which is good and even better is that they’ve not got helicoils fitted in the spark plug holes.

I need to find a ball bearing somewhere around 5mm diameter to drop in the shims so I can check them and order the correct ones but I’ve got a set of old wheel bearings I can break open and they might do the job

Once I’ve ordered the shims I’ll spray the exhaust system, fit the wheels, bleed the brakes and connect up the brake light switches to make sure they’re good and after it’s just a case of finishing the top end then drop it back in.

The worst job is going to be dialling in the cams but it’s one of those jobs you just have to be careful then check, check and check again. I’ve done it before on DOHC engines and I’ve got a degree disc to bung on the crankshaft to double check rather than rely on getting dots lined up.

 

[jonnie comet]

Yep, I’m officially a happy Laverda owner for at least 24 hours until I’ve cleaned up the head and given it a proper inspection.

FWIW.....I reckon I'm as keen to know how good that head is as you are. No sweat on though as I'm not financially involved (thank fuck )

Might be worth checking that your camshafts have clearance to turn in the new head .
the old head had what looked like rough cutouts to clear the lobes.

That would never enter my head (the one on top of my neck....too much 'head' talk) I'm not a mechanical engineer, I'm just interested in what you lads do so PLEASE bear with me. Are you saying that someone may have machined a camshaft with lobes that need extra clearance within the standard head? Does that happen or am I missing something??....

 

[Deleted account 240831001]

The cams are higher lift and longer duration on the Montjuic compared to the Alpino which was the ‘cooking’ version of the Laverda 500 so they rubbed against the spacers that stand 2 of the nuts off the head when bolting it down. Mine are the modified ones and I think that because the original head on mine was an Alpino one it might have been hacked about a bit (I’ll check one against the other tomorrow) but the replacement head should be ok. I’ll pop the cams in and give them a spin before fitting the valve assemblies but I’ve been assured this head is from a genuine Montjuic so it should be ok.

The forks have new springs rated for someone my weight but the guy who reworked the forks said the originals are perfectly good on a stock bike so I’ll advertise them along with the set of new valve guides on the Laverda forum. I’ll also see if anyone wants the old pistons cheap, I’m not going to source rings for them but if someone wants high compression pistons for an Alpino they could save a couple of hundred buying those ones and they’re not worn at all. I might let the head go if anybody wants one to fit bigger valves in or the alternative is to look at getting it repaired and hang onto it but not while I’ve got no cash coming in.

 

[jonnie comet]

The cams are higher lift and longer duration on the Montjuic compared to the Alpino which was the ‘cooking’ version of the Laverda 500 so they rubbed against the spacers that stand 2 of the nuts off the head when bolting it down. Mine are the modified ones and I think that because the original head on mine was an Alpino one it might have been hacked about a bit (I’ll check one against the other tomorrow) but the replacement head should be ok. I’ll pop the cams in and give them a spin before fitting the valve assemblies but I’ve been assured this head is from a genuine Montjuic so it should be ok.

Ahhh, I see....

 

[Deleted account 240831001]

More progress

The head has now been blasted and cleaned which then allowed me to have a good look at the seats and combustion chamber. Good news was that everything looked good so it was time to fit the cams and see if they cleared the head.

They didn’t.

The first picture shows how much clearance my old head has where the buckets slide up and down and the second one is the new one with nothing ground away.

Not to worry, I set about it with a pencil grinder and a couple of mounted points then kept checking with feeler gauges until I had at least 0.25mm clearance with the cams pulled down. I made the cut outs nicely radiused then polished them to minimise the risk of stress cracking and it was job done.

After that I contemplated lapping the valves but knowing what I’m like it was going to be a case of once they were started they were going to be finished before I closed the door on it so decided to....

Do the fuckers!

Luckily I’ve got a reciprocating valve lapping tool that you run in a cordless drill at about 150rpm and they all dropped in quickly so didn’t take long. I’m a bit anal with valves and always check them with micrometer blue but they’re all good so I’m glad I got on with it. After that it was just a case of fit the seals, springs and collets then bounce them with a socket and a soft hammer to make sure they’re seated and that’s the end of it.

I’ve now fitted the cams to have a trial check of the clearances and there’s miles too much so I’m left with the choice of either try to get them right first time or buy a valve seat cutter, take the valves out and drop them in the seats. I forgot to order new needle rollers for the cams and I won’t get good readings until they’ve been changed so I’ll have a think about the best way forward while I drink beer tonight.

I need to cut some bits of studding down to I can pin the cams properly when the needle rollers arrive but that’s for another day.

It’s moving forward

 

[mikeyboy]

Why the need to cut the seats.?
Are shims not available?
I cannot imagine that so much has been ground off the backs of the lobes ,given that you have just needed to mod the head to create clearance for the higher lift lobes.
More research needed methinks

 

[Deleted account 240831001]

It’s more about whether I can get the correct shims. I’ve got hold of someone who says they should have a full set but the bigger sizes are the ones they may be short of and with the old shims fitted I’m close to 0.5mm out on all of them which would be reduced if I pinch a bit off the seats. The range covers 0.95mm so I might be lucky and find mine are at bottom end of the range in which case I’ll be ok but that’ll become clearer once I’ve pulled the caps down properly.

He’s also assured me that they’ll close up when the cam chain is fitted which I’m struggling to get my head around and will be extremely frustrating if I set them a bit big and they don’t close up.

I also emailed the guy I bought the head from and he seems a bit pissed off because it might not have had the maximum lift cams fitted which are plus 1.6mm on standard.

 

[mikeyboy]

You can be sure the clearances will close up as it’s run for a bit.
Plus a bit once cam chain and oiled bearings.
I would set clearances proper slack,prob 0.05 to 0.1 over recommended.then reset once it’s had a couple of heat cycles.
Everything is a mismatch,
New valves ,head different cams etc etc.
At least if it’s slack you can almost guarantee you will have some clearance,so you can get a measurement for reshimming once everything has settled .
Tis a ball ache if there’s no clearance.

 

[mikeyboy]

It’s more about whether I can get the correct shims. I’ve got hold of someone who says they should have a full set but the bigger sizes are the ones they may be short of and with the old shims fitted I’m close to 0.5mm out on all of them which would be reduced if I pinch a bit off the seats. The range covers 0.95mm so I might be lucky and find mine are at bottom end of the range in which case I’ll be ok but that’ll become clearer once I’ve pulled the caps down properly.

He’s also assured me that they’ll close up when the cam chain is fitted which I’m struggling to get my head around and will be extremely frustrating if I set them a bit big and they don’t close up.

I also emailed the guy I bought the head from and he seems a bit pissed off because it might not have had the maximum lift cams fitted which are plus 1.6mm on standard.

Id have thought the chap would have no small shims not no big ones.
Hmm,anyway once the things been run it might be a nonissue.
Or cut some feeler gauges up till you find the right sizes.

 

[Deleted account 240831001]

Clearances are something that have been discussed at length of the Laverda forum and most say go 0.05mm up on the clearance as a matter of course so I was going to go minimum 0.10 above book plus whatever the step in shim sizes gives me.

I just put any old shim on each valve because there was no point in replacing them where they came from but I’ll fit some threaded rod where it needs the head bolts to pull the caps down and see what I’ve got. It’s not a difficult job and I’ll put the numbers down on a spreadsheet showing existing clearance, existing shim and required shim so I don’t lose track of sizes then if they do close up after running I’ll know what to ask for.

All I’m trying to avoid is splitting the chain too many times because I have a deep seated fear of losing part of the link down the tunnel no matter how much paper I shove in there but you know what I’m like and I’ll probably put the head on tomorrow

 

[mikeyboy]

Clearances are something that have been discussed at length of the Laverda forum and most say go 0.05mm up on the clearance as a matter of course so I was going to go minimum 0.10 above book plus whatever the step in shim sizes gives me.

I just put any old shim on each valve because there was no point in replacing them where they came from but I’ll fit some threaded rod where it needs the head bolts to pull the caps down and see what I’ve got. It’s not a difficult job and I’ll put the numbers down on a spreadsheet showing existing clearance, existing shim and required shim so I don’t lose track of sizes then if they do close up after running I’ll know what to ask for.

All I’m trying to avoid is splitting the chain too many times because I have a deep seated fear of losing part of the link down the tunnel no matter how much paper I shove in there but you know what I’m like and I’ll probably put the head on tomorrow

You don’t need to split the chain?....??
Take the tensioner out ,unbolt the cam bearings and move the cam upnout.if need be unbolt the sprocket from the cam or cams.
I don’t believe the camchain is that snug on the old fergie.

 

[mikeyboy]

Maybe Andy has fallen asleep after too much home brew and a long day at the work bench.

 

[Deleted account 240831001]

I didn’t waste any time when removing it so just split the chain and took the whole lot off but I’ll have a look later. If nothing else I can time the cams then put new dot marks on the sprockets if the originals aren’t clear because the cams will need removing when new needle rollers arrive.

 

[Deleted account 240831001]

Maybe Andy has fallen asleep after too much home brew and a long day at the work bench.

It wasn’t the mechanical work and nor was it the home brew sent me to bed at 11pm, it was knowing we’ve got more people viewing the house at 10am so no lie in for me today.