time to say goodbye to my bmw

[TechnoGSA]

My 1250GS has let me down twice in 3 years.

1st time - flat battery due to DataTool tracker discharging the battery to the point that after 3 days it would be hit or miss if the bike would start - especially in very cold weather. Removed tracker as this model takes 50mA even when bike is off.

A healthy battery should easily be capable of powering an S5 for 2 weeks, anything less would suggest it's not a healthy battery. I see a lot of owners bringing me bikes with what they believe are alarm/tracker issues, only there not. Rather the owners not understanding how they work and/or not maintaining their bike/s batteries properly. Especially those that do short journeys with lights and accessories all on. If you've got any direct attachments to your battery including a battery changing lead, they will draw on the battery even switched off/not connected, especially in lower temperatures. Most quality accessories Gerbing for one, does inform you about this drain when connecting directly to the battery. If you've got an alarm/tracker, again quality systems will tell you, you must connect a battery charger to maintain the system internal battery for anything longer than 1 - 2 weeks. In the case of a tracker, this is essential, as they work like a mobile phone/Satnavs They're constantly looking for a signal via GPS/networks, like a mobile phone this is accelerated when they can't find it's network eg in a garage, the battery is drained in short order.

If you don't maintain the bikes battery and it's allowed to drop below 11 - 8v once or twice is enough, it will be damaged and it's life considerably shortened depending on the levels of drop. Just connecting the battery back up to a changer and getting full green won't repair the damage, the battery will not hold it's charge as long as it should and this will progressively worsen over time, until it fails. All quality alarms/trackers have internal batteries, if these are allowed to discharge too many times they also die, hence you hear "my battery only lasted x or y and it's the alarm/tracker, the thing keeps going off, is useless cut it out" etc etc. I used to fit both Meta and Datatool, if fitted correctly (most weren't/aren't) and maintained correctly they'll last for years. Don't maintain them and they'll start failing in quick time, as many did/have and in most cases this is what gave them a bad press. The other elephant in the room is Chinese fakes and cheap makes, these are at best crap at worst dangerous especially lithium. Some of these fakes like chains some years ago, did/have caught out importers and retailers.

I've got several customers (on various makes of bike) who had your issues. Since I've removed (some done years ago) all accessories that could be from direct battery connections, moved to switched live or via Hexcan/Cansmart and they keep their bike connected to a float charger. None have had anymore battery/alarm/tracker issues whatsoever. A well maintained quality battery should be good for at least 5 yrs.

 

[Engineer]

Clever how the battery only lasts as long as the warranty / PCP deal !!!

Yeah but I've never had a PCP and a battery doesn't cost that much to replace.

I think it is just modern batteries in general and if you use the bike a lot (like me) then the battery takes a hammering with loads of starts, it must take a lot of oomph to turn over a 1250 twin. The factory fitted battery is just some Exide thing, I replaced it with a Yuasa.

 

[Engineer]

A healthy battery should easily be capable of powering an S5 for 2 weeks, anything less would suggest it's not a healthy battery. I see a lot of owners bringing me bikes with what they believe are alarm/tracker issues, only there not. Rather the owners not understanding how they work and/or not maintaining their bike/s batteries properly. Especially those that do short journeys with lights and accessories all on. If you've got any direct attachments to your battery including a battery changing lead, they will draw on the battery even switched off/not connected, especially in lower temperatures. Most quality accessories Gerbing for one, does inform you about this drain when connecting directly to the battery. If you've got an alarm/tracker, again quality systems will tell you, you must connect a battery charger to maintain the system internal battery for anything longer than 1 - 2 weeks. In the case of a tracker, this is essential, as they work like a mobile phone/Satnavs They're constantly looking for a signal via GPS/networks, like a mobile phone this is accelerated when they can't find it's network eg in a garage, the battery is drained in short order.

If you don't maintain the bikes battery and it's allowed to drop below 11 - 8v once or twice is enough, it will be damaged and it's life considerably shortened depending on the levels of drop. Just connecting the battery back up to a changer and getting full green won't repair the damage, the battery will not hold it's charge as long as it should and this will progressively worsen over time, until it fails. All quality alarms/trackers have internal batteries, if these are allowed to discharge too many times they also die, hence you hear "my battery only lasted x or y and it's the alarm/tracker, the thing keeps going off, is useless cut it out" etc etc. I used to fit both Meta and Datatool, if fitted correctly (most weren't/aren't) and maintained correctly they'll last for years. Don't maintain them and they'll start failing in quick time, as many did/have and in most cases this is what gave them a bad press. The other elephant in the room is Chinese fakes and cheap makes, these are at best crap at worst dangerous especially lithium. Some of these fakes like chains some years ago, did/have caught out importers and retailers.

I've got several customers (on various makes of bike) who had your issues. Since I've removed (some done years ago) all accessories that could be from direct battery connections, moved to switched live or via Hexcan/Cansmart and they keep their bike connected to a float charger. None have had anymore battery/alarm/tracker issues whatsoever. A well maintained quality battery should be good for at least 5 yrs.

My Datatool tracker was taking 50 mA so that is 20 hours for each Ah of capacity. The battery capacity is 12Ah so that is 10 days until the battery capacity is completely used.

After 5 days the capacity will have dropped to half - in winter with a 3 year old battery that is starting to get a bit iffy.

I measured the current drain from the battery with and without the tracker - 50mA with and 6mA without - measurements were taken when the bike had fully shut down.

I have no other direct connections to the battery.

My commute is between 12 and 15 miles - if a bike can't do this then that is a problem.

The battery was fully discharged occasionally and was re-charged and maintained with the BMW charger but sometimes over winter it had to be left for 3 days without a charger after a 15 mile commute, that is when the problems started, clearly a 12Ah battery is not really big enough for a continuous drain of 50mA.

Since removing the Datatool tracker the problem of not starting went away, but the battery was still shagged so had to be replaced.

I have had 6 GS's since 2005 and my 1250 has been the only one to have this problem and the only one that has ever had a tracker.

 

[TechnoGSA]

Are far as I'm aware S5 don't draw 50ma, my understanding is it's more like 0.5ma certainly less than 1ma when in sleep mode, i.e. bikes not switched on or moving. At most they draw around 250ma when the bike is on and/or charging the internal battery. Datatools are specifically made for bikes, tech has greatly improved even from the 2 (Trakking & Trakking Adv) previous versions. If yours is/was drawing 50ma with the ignition off, its was likely it not fitted correctly, lost signal and constantly searching, the internal battery is failing or there's something wrong with your meter. Also your battery may not have been 12Ah it could well be half that or less, it will still give you 12 something volts, unless you load tested it and I don't mean with some £15 Chinese tester. If that was the case, even connected 24/7 the battery isn't going to repair it's self, it's goosed. As far as I'm aware the S5 system samples at intervals, it's also powered by it's internal battery once the ignition is switched off, that's why they tell you no longer than 2 weeks without being connected to a charger. To charge the internal battery battery it draws approx. 250ma, that draw will drain the bikes battery in a few days at best. It's also equipped with a battery warning level option to tell you when the bikes battery is at 20% remaining, this needs to be set up if you want an alert to your email/phone or it's just on the app. Datatool state the system should be connected to a charger if you're storing for longer than 2 weeks, that's because they know a healthy battery will last the 2 weeks.

My own 23 1250GSA OE 12Ah battery, has been left for 10 days without being connected while touring, last year no issues starting or with my battery, this year so far, it's not connected for an 8 day period and several 3 -5 days, no issues. Your issue suggests your battery and/or how you maintained it, was the issue, which would lead to your trackers internal battery failing to provide the 2 weeks power and drawing off the bikes battery when switched off, a vicious circle! I can only state my own experiences and those bikes I've looked/look after, they didn't/don't suffer tracker/battery/starting failures in the time scales you and others unfortunately have. In the for sale section I've got my 03 XJR1300 up for sale, on it is a System 3 it's 20yrs old the system works fine. I've had the bike since 2015 replaced the key fob battery twice the last being Nov 23 and the bikes battery in May 22, it wasn't staring too well, that battery was dated 14, 8yrs.

This is one of those emotive bike subjects a bit like tyres, you either like something or you don't!

 

[Engineer]

I had a few phone calls and emails with DataTool, I struggled to get any technical data from them. Eventually they said they it should be less than 1mA when asleep and 40mA when activated. I was also told that the unit could be updated remotely but could get no sense out of them as to how and when this would be done. Their technical support is very poor.

Eventually when this year's renewal came around I called them and told them that there still was a problem, they said the unit was out of warranty and that a replacement would cost £190. I said OK but I want an assurance and evidence that a replacement unit would draw much less current that 50mA, they said they could not guarantee that. I told them to not renew my subscription, it still had about 3 weeks to run but they disabled their monitoring immediately - piss poor customer service!

Anyway I removed the unit and in the process checked the installation (It was done by BMW from new, they had a sales deal with DataTool a couple of years ago - they no longer have because they had too many issues!) anyway it was installed correctly - this was clear when I removed it.

Also there was not a lost signal - if I deliberately moved the bike I got an alert and each time I left a geofence I got an alert - it was functioning correctly but its current drain was way too high.

The unit was either faulty or they tell 'fibs' about the current drain. I would not recommend that anyone use a tracker from Datatool.

P.S. I have been doing Electronics Engineering for more than 50 years, I know how to measure current and have designed intelligent battery chargers for a major communications company, I do understand batteries of all types and the issues they can have.

 

[GSMarky]

I would not recommend that anyone use a tracker from Datatool.

100% agreed. My experience with a brand new bike was that it drained the battery no matter what and had zero impact on my insurance. I also spoke to them a couple of times was was not enamoured with their manner or working practices. I removed the shite hardware from the GS and all was well again. Never again!

 

[KMD]

I was also told that the unit could be updated remotely but could get no sense out of them as to how and when this would be done. Their technical support is very poor.

This

P.S. I have been doing Electronics Engineering for more than 50 years, I know how to measure current and have designed intelligent battery chargers for a major communications company, I do understand batteries of all types and the issues they can have.

Is probably because of this. Not unusual for ‘them’ to go quiet when confronted with someone who knows at least as well as they do.

 

[Morety]

People are perhaps expecting too much of a battery. BMW do not use batteries with a secret self destruct linked to warranty period. Any battery tbh is doing well to last 5 years or more and I fully expect to change mine every 5 years. It's a bonus that my current one is 6 years old and tests fine. Chargers will not tell you the state of the battery, you need a battery tester for that. Modern charges generally have a desulphating cycle, and if that doesn't work, just buy a new battery. I always use either Yuasa or Varta. Never anything else. Testers are cheap these days, around £30 or less. They tell you how much capacity compared with the new battery (you input the battery specs) your battery has left and how well (or not) it's holding charge and how many cranking amps it has left in it (CCA value). You can also do a drop test using a multi-meter but a tester will give you a very comprehensive set of data.

As for others judging anyone due to what they ride, just ignore them. I had a chap a few months ago at a petrol station walk over from his crusty, rusty old Fazer 600 to tell me what a pile of rubbish my RS was....."Someone's been splashing out, haven't they?" he said. He then proceeded to bore me with tales of his old hexhead which was the most unreliable piece of "crap" he'd ever owned, pointed to his rust-bucket and said "that will never let you down". He then gave me a monologue about poor build quality of BMWs which he hadn't owned for donkey's years and how overpriced they were. One look at him and his fazer told me everything I didn't want to know...a bloke who couldn't give a toss about looking after his own machinery, judging others for what they ride. I just ignored him. I had much the same from people making the odd comments about my GSA, an oft repeated one being "pipe and slippers bike" or "I'm too young for one of those yet". Ironically, I caught up with one bloke who'd said that a year later and guess what he was riding?

 

[Pukmeister]

Testers are cheap these days, around £30 or less. They tell you how much capacity compared with the new battery (you input the battery specs) your battery has left and how well (or not) it's holding charge and how many cranking amps it has left in it (CCA value). You can also do a drop test using a multi-meter but a tester will give you a very comprehensive set of data.

My TOPDON AL500B diagnostic OBD tester has a battery test function built-in which as well as capacity (drop test) also does a cranking test to see how quickly the engine starts in milliseconds and the battery terminal voltage (a proxy for starter voltage) at the instant of cranking. Its a good bit of kit for the money.

It has condemned a few spare batteries that I thought still had capacity in them.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BTHND5LN?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

[Bigcats]

Does anyone have a bit of a guide to remove the tracker??

I have already installed a standalone tracker which users Lithium batteries so do not want the fitted one as it seems to cause more issues.

 

[Victor c]

Does anyone have a bit of a guide to remove the tracker??

I have already installed a standalone tracker which users Lithium batteries so do not want the fitted one as it seems to cause more issues.

Hey Bigcats

If you have the BMW fitted tracker, it would more than likely be under the rear bodywork.
You will need to remove the rear luggage rack to remove the body work, and once it is exposed, you should find it is simply piggybacked into the bikes wiring loom. Just unplug it and reconnect the two free ends of the loom. Just take a bit of care removing the luggage rack fixings, as they can be very tight.
There may be a video on Abikething YouTube channel, which covers removing all the bodywork.

 

[Bigcats]

Hey Bigcats

If you have the BMW fitted tracker, it would more than likely be under the rear bodywork.
You will need to remove the rear luggage rack to remove the body work, and once it is exposed, you should find it is simply piggybacked into the bikes wiring loom. Just unplug it and reconnect the two free ends of the loom. Just take a bit of care removing the luggage rack fixings, as they can be very tight.

When I was fitting the Ezcan I noticed it so yes its exactly where you described

Guess I will be taking the rack off again!

Many Thanks

 

[Borowno]

Does anyone have a bit of a guide to remove the tracker??

I have already installed a standalone tracker which users Lithium batteries so do not want the fitted one as it seems to cause more issues.

All the thieving toerags would be interested to know as well..................

 

[Bigcats]

All the thieving toerags would be interested to know as well..................

Well if BMW put it in the same place on every bike it kind of defeats the object

Also I do not think thieves are stupid enough to not know where and how to remove a tracker from a GS seeing as they have been out for years

 

[TIJ650]

I’ve only been frequenting this forum recently. Mainly because riding less etc, and have to say 99% are pretty cool. There are 1 or 2 slightly out of line though. I know mostly in humour and sometimes this is lost in text. For this reason, f2f in my opinion is still king. Extending from that and a good rule of thumb is to chat in text EXACTLY as you would face to face. Hiding behind a keyboard doesn’t give you license to say what you want………..unless drinking - then it’s okay! Lol

 

[Borowno]

Well if BMW put it in the same place on every bike it kind of defeats the object

Also I do not think thieves are stupid enough to not know where and how to remove a tracker from a GS seeing as they have been out for years

If every GS owner followed your premise, they all might as well remove their BMW fitted trackers - save having any battery problems!

 

[TIJ650]

……….oops, this was a retort to Morety’s last statement. My phone’s been acting up - especially with Tapatalk. I’ve stopped using it now

 

[GSMarky]

Does anyone have a bit of a guide to remove the tracker??

I have already installed a standalone tracker which users Lithium batteries so do not want the fitted one as it seems to cause more issues.

Remove seats and plastics around the rear light. Be careful and there's probably loctite on the threads so get your Torx in properly. Once removed you'll see the hardware, so just unplug it and put in the bin.

 

[GSMarky]

Datatool 1 by KTM Marky, on Flickr

 

[GSMarky]

This is what you'll extract:

Datatool 2 by KTM Marky, on Flickr