transmission rattle - is yours the same?

[birdseye]

I ride with ear plugs so I dont normally hear much of the transmission. But today, after washing the bike, I started up the engine with the bike on the centre stand. Put it in first gear and at idle revs there was a loud rattle / knock from the driveshaft area. Speeding up the engine didnt stop the rattle up to about 3000 rpm. Putting into second seemed, if anything , to make the noise worse. Putting a slight load on the wheel ( sole of shoe) didnt make much difference either.

Now it seems to me that there are 2 options. The first is that I have a problem even though there are no other indications (play in wheel etc). The second option is that what is happening is that minor variations in the engine speed are causing the transmission to alternatively take up and then release the play in the drive system ie that this noise is typical and wont be experienced riding the bike on the road except when you go from drive to overrun and vice versa. We all know that there is a transmission knock when you do this.

My problem is that the only way of knowing whether this is normal or not is to ask you chaps to try your bikes running in gear on the centre stand. Asking the dealer will bring an automatic "they all do that".

So do they all do that? Help please.

 

[drdata]

I ran mine on the center stand, in gear, to confirm whether there was a tip -over or difference in wheel-speed (between front/rear) ignition kill. The motor did not die, even at some high revs, but the racket that came from the free-spinning wheel was terrible. I chalked this up to unloaded wheel slapping against the gear stop, then lashing back, as per your thoughts. No other issues, so I assume this is normal.

FWIW, when I spin the rear by hand I sometimes hear a noise that seems to come from the drive/shaft tranny. Not a metal to metal sound; it is hard to describe. The floor models at delaer did not make this sound. When warmed up the sound seems to go away.

On this note, when fully warm I can just sence some movement in the rear at the 3 and 9 'o clock positions. I would say less than one mm. When cold I do not sense any play. I assume this is related to heat expansion and also somewhat normal.

HTHs

 

[cookie]

every bike of all makes i've ever done that to has sounded bloody horrendous.

but as yours is a 1200 it's probably just fecked

 

[drdata]

Well, the old 85 Honda 600 XL, chain drive, does not make any unnatural noises when I do the same to lube the chain. This is the first shaft bike I have owned, and I assumed it was perhaps a shafty type deal.

 

[Rakthi]

It's normal, mine does it too and the 1150 before that did it also. Should not run BMWs in gear on centerstand.

 

[Mr K]

It's the clutch - don't worry...

 

[birdseye]

It's the clutch - don't worry...

Deffo not the clutch Chris - did the old trick of putting a screwdriver against various bits of the bike and my ear against the handle to locate the noise. Its coming from the casting between the box and the bevel drive ie the drive shaft area.

Mind you, the clutch isnt exactly quiet either.

 

[Pukmeister]

Don't run your bike in gear on the centrestand:

With no resistance through the geartrain, all the backlash in the entire geartrain has nothing to keep it 'biased' one way or another, and components are free to shuttle about within their designed range of clearances, from the flywheel through the gear box to the driveshaft and final drive crownwheel/pinion. No wonder it sounds like a bag of spanners.

The other more commonsense reason is that if the rear wheel were to ground out whilst spinning, your bike will be off like a shot with no rider in control. If it then hit an innocent bystander, things could get very nasty!!! Safety first ???

On Holiday in the 1980's I saw a youth rev the nuts off a scooter whilst on its stand to impress some young girls. The prat didn't realise the rear wheel would spin. He then eased it off the stand and we watched in horror as it threw him off, then shot across Palma harbour and off the jetty into the sea. He was grazed and no one else was hurt. The scooter became a submersible.

Laugh?? We pissed ourselves!!!!

 

[birdseye]

Granny and Eggs! But thanks for the concern anyway.

The thing that puzzles me slightly is that I put a load on the wheel using the sole of my shoe. Not a great load maybe, but I would have thought it sufficient to stop the oscillation we both suspect is the cause of the rattle.

Still, others have said they have the same problem but since it never happened like that with my Pan, it has to go down to BMW engineering. Pity we cant persuade BMW to sublet GS production to Honda!

 

[Dave Price]

Still, others have said they have the same problem but since it never happened like that with my Pan, it has to go down to BMW engineering. Pity we cant persuade BMW to sublet GS production to Honda! [/B]

Shudder at the thought of the GS becoming anything like a pan european, which, is one of the most overated bikes ever produced.

 

[cookie]

I put a load on the wheel using the sole of my shoe

best get the back brake fixed

 

[wilbjr21]

Err. Wouldn't go down the road of comparing the 1200 to ST1300 Pan European. They couldn't fix the fault that mine had from new - that's why I've got a R1200GS. The R1200GS is a better bike anyway - had three Pans.

 

[Dave Price]

Err. Wouldn't go down the road of comparing the 1200 to ST1300 Pan European. They couldn't fix the fault that mine had from new - that's why I've got a R1200GS. The R1200GS is a better bike anyway - had three Pans.

Well said that man. I've had to ride the damn things for the last 12 years. The latest incarnation still isn't sorted.

 

[chippelmike]

Rattles.

Mine rattled like a Duckfarty when hot at tickoverwith the clutch lever out and stopped rattling when the lever was pulled in ! Cure, New gearbox, no rattle. 1st dealer said " Yes our demo does that as well " Went to other dealer ( BVM. Stroud ). Mechanic serviced bike, went on test ride, came back and said , " noisey gearbox, We'll get that changed!
Thats the difference betwen good and bad dealears, some care and some dont. Pat on the back for B.V.M. in Stroud
Mike.

 

[RogerJ]

Rattles

Chippelmike....you've put your finger on it exactly. It depends on the dealer.
My bike has had a strange noise since day one. Recently at my dealer the technician told me that my 12 GS's noise was gearbox chatter and that it was nothing. So I took it to a BM master tech who has just gone independent and he diagnosed it as an improperly shimmed gearbox and that it needed to be reshimmed properly using a specific and pricey BM tool. He said that it shouldn't chatter if it is within specificiations. Unless it is jumping out of gear, making aweful noises and throwing off lots of metal not much positive response from some dealers and BM. My speculation is that they are assembling the gearboxes with wider tolerances so that other bits don't wear. The downside of this is noise or gearbox chatter that some dealers and BM don't seem to want to do much about.
The clutch can also be a source of noise. Since day one mine has done a "dja-dja-dja-dja-dja" on letting out the clutch when warm and is especially harsh with two up and under load like pulling away uphill. Also with the clutch fullly out and gentle hill climbining in dry conditions and under 3000 rpm produces the noise. After much discussion got the o.k. from BM to get to the bottom of it next week. We'll see what develops but anyone here got any positive suggestion as to what may be producing this kind of noise under these conditions from personal experience?

 

[geojunkie]

Roger,
I am interested in what you find out, as I have the same rattle on clutch engagement and below 3000 rpm accelerations clutch out in the lower gears. Got to thinking about this, and the frequency of the rattle is pretty low, like 5-10 clicks (noises or whathaveyou) per second. That does not match engine rpms at all, nor would it seem to match driveshaft rpms as it is the same frequency at take off and in 2nd or 3rd gear low rpm accels. Almost seems like something resonating. Perhaps something on the clutch or cam chain tensioner or loose counterbalancer shaft or ????

Dan

 

[Emoto]

I get the rattle at idle with the bike in neutral, clutch lever out. Repeated squeezing of the clutch lever can sometimes make the noise stop. That is to say the noise always stops when the clutch lever is squeezed, and when you release it, sometimes the noise does not return. Anyone else?

 

[Mouse]

Yes I have noticed exactly the same thing.

 

[drdata]

Not me (yet)