Tried a Triumph Tiger 800 and Yamaha Super Tenere today

[Tobers]

Nope - doomed. There's another Super Tenere at Powerbiking in High Wycombe for £8500 including farkles - 1500 miles.

Bad news for those who bought at full price. Good news for everyone else.

 

[Georgeeboi]

At those prices might be able to keep my ducati 1198 as well!......mmmmm

 

[Georgeeboi]

Tobers any pics.

 

[Tobers]

Nope - but it looks like a Super Tenere if that's of any help .

 

[Rasher]

Nope - doomed. There's another Super Tenere at Powerbiking in High Wycombe for £8500 including farkles - 1500 miles.

Bad news for those who bought at full price. Good news for everyone else.

Great news for me, riding another Tenere tomorrow registered 2 months ago, 100 miles and at £9.5k!

I have seen a 1500 mile 2010 at £8,000 from a dealer, I reckon my '08 GS with luggage (and a years warrranty) is easily worth £7k on a private sale (offered £6900 against a 2011 Tenere 1st edition already) and the bits I have to sell would easily get me over £1k so I am almost at a point where I can chop my 3 year old 15k GS for a 1 year old Tenere with 1k on the clock ar virtually zero cost.

Franks bike is a 1st edition with the luggage and a few other bits which if buying new cost over £1500, plus the private plate, shame about the mileage as it would appear he has the only bike that has been used, all the others on the market are ex-dems and pre-reg's the dealers are giving away.

My heartfelt sympathy goes out to anyone who did pay £13000 for one of these things, and thanks to everyone else who passed them up to pay more for a GS without whom they Yamaha would not be giving them away right now!

I may well be riding one very soon.

 

[Sgt Bilco]

A brand new fully loaded super 10 is $15,000 stateside which equates to about £9400 at todays rate That's about the right price for the bike in my book.

Ever thought that us Brits are ever being taken for a ride

 

[BBB61]

My heartfelt sympathy goes out to anyone who did pay £13000 for one of these things, and thanks to everyone else who passed them up to pay more for a GS without whom they Yamaha would not be giving them away right now!

If the list price of the Yamaha is £13000 and the GS is listed at £10550, how did those who bought a GS pay more?

 

[theop]

If the list price of the Yamaha is £13000 and the GS is listed at £10550, how did those who bought a GS pay more?

GS list price means you have topay extra for wheels, paint, seat etc... No?

Same way the k1600 is listed at 15k.... Easily needs another 6k to have a decently farkled bike...

For some reason Germans always did that... Porsche is worse than that, mercedes of old rarely offered a steering wheel on the basic price....

Dont know why they do it, i hate it....

 

[BBB61]

GS list price means you have topay extra for wheels, paint, seat etc... No?

Same way the k1600 is listed at 15k.... Easily needs another 6k to have a decently farkled bike...

For some reason Germans always did that... Porsche is worse than that, mercedes of old rarely offered a steering wheel on the basic price....

Dont know why they do it, i hate it....

Still talking crap I see Theo

The basic K1600GT (list £15450) comes with ABS, panniers, heated grips, heated seats, cruise control and a xenon headlight. Not exactly skimping it in the specification. Compare that with a FJR1300 which only has the heated grips, panniers and ABS but retails at £15499.

If you want to farkle the GT with ESA, alarm, central locking and the audio system with GPS prep that will add £2050 to the price. That's a long way from 6k

The Super Ten lists at £12999 and comes with traction control and ABS as standard. The GS lists at £10550 but to bring it up to the spec of the Super Ten needs the addition of the dynamic pack (£1395) which brings it up to £11945. The dynamic pack also includes the tyre pressure control.

 

[Rasher]

They are not quite like for like however you add up the options.

The Yamaha also has an on-board computer and wire wheels which are both options on the GS.

Yeah sure a basic GS is cheaper, but is had absolutely feck all with it - I have never seen one as it comes from the factory and most these days have premium and dynamic pack, if you add on wire wheels I am guessing you are looking around the £14k mark - a lot more than the £10k the Yams can be had for.

 

[BBB61]

Looks like your guess is on a par with your usual info Rasher. Spoked wheels are a £350 option and the trip computer is £150. I make that £12445 with those options added. The GS still has the tyre pressure monitors included in that spec which is not available on the Yam. Want to add heated grips to the spec? That will be £230 on the GS and £300 on the Super Ten.

I see you are moving the goal posts again. You thanked people for not buying the Super Ten at the £13k list price, so lets stick to comparing the two at list price, which is what they were both selling for not so long ago.

Now it is almost winter and Super Ten stock appears to be high. Dealers and Yamaha UK don't want 2011 stock clogging up the warehouse, especially if there is still some 2010 stuff in there so hence the slashing of prices.

It makes you wonder if the only way they can sell them is slash the prices as to whether they will bite the bullet for 2012 and drop the list price? Or would they consider deleting the model from the range if sales have not met expectations?

 

[Rasher]

It makes you wonder if the only way they can sell them is slash the prices as to whether they will bite the bullet for 2012 and drop the list price? Or would they consider deleting the model from the range if sales have not met expectations?

It must have just been the first editions that came with the spoked wheels then, I thought they only did spoked wheels and the demo I rode yesterday had them fitted (and was not a first edition)

I can't see them maintaining that list price, unless they are constantly on deals with free luggage / 0% etc which Yamaha may do to save face, dropping RRP always looks bad.

I doubt the model will get deleted, and if anything once a few more are out there sales could pick up, the BMW funded press did a pretty good hatchet job of putting punters off the bikes describing them as huge when they are smaller than a GSA and in many ways more compact than stock GS, and claiming the BMW has more bottom end - this is entirely untrue, the dyno graphs I have seen show a much better torque curve down low on the tenere and just riding one it is obvious it out-grunts the twin cam GS by a good margin.

The one thing I absolutely agree on is it is missing something, I always have a grin when riding my GS, yesterday the Yamaha left me flat, my GS and the twin cam one just felt like much more fun.

On the motorway I would definately rather have the smooth Yamaha with its great top gear roll-on, lazy gearing and vibe free motor, but as soon as the bends appear it just loses out in the sort of way a spec sheet cannot describe.

 

[C-J]

So many detailed comparisons.... But who really Makes a decision on the details, which appear to be pretty close.. Buying a bike is about how much you want it, need it, if it gives you a semi when you get near it, whether you go into the garage just to look at it.. It's a passionate,irrational decision making process..

Yamaha only ever made one good thing.....

 

[Rasher]

Yamaha only ever made one good thing.....

That is so untrue, there have been some great Yamaha motorcycles.

The RD range, from the aircooled 400, through to the classic LC and then the later YPVS. They have made some great GP bikes over the years, the original EXUP is a modern classic IMO and if someone gave me a nice R7 I would be a happy chappy.

So many detailed comparisons.... But who really Makes a decision on the details, which appear to be pretty close..

Exactly, If details and spec sheets sold bikes then Yamaha should be inundated with part exchanged GS's at the current prices.

Buying a bike is about how much you want it, need it, if it gives you a semi when you get near it, whether you go into the garage just to look at it.. It's a passionate,irrational decision making process.

I would not exactly go into the garage to look at my GS, I love riding it, but do not consider it desireable, nor pretty to look at, however it feels fantastic to ride, I have no idea why.

Certainly it handles a treat (which is not anything a spec sheet can relay) and somehow I like the engine despite its "flaws" - or maybe even because of them

Yamaha have gone all Japanese with the entire process and measured a GS in a very scientific way and in their logical minds improved it in almost every area.

In my mind the steering is too slow and the engine soul-less, but I bet this is due to them making it more stable and providing a smoother power delivery that the computer tells them is much better.

How about:

GS chassis
Yamaha ABS & TC
Stelvio engine
GS Luggage
Yamaha Clocks & Switchgear (but with clocks operated from bar)
Wilburs Suspension

That would be my ideal bike

 

[BBB61]

I doubt the model will get deleted, and if anything once a few more are out there sales could pick up, the BMW funded press did a pretty good hatchet job of putting punters off the bikes describing them as huge when they are smaller than a GSA and in many ways more compact than stock GS,

That has to be one of your best Rasher, the BMW funded press Where do you get them from!

I think Yamaha did a very good job of putting people off the bikes with their marketing and pricing strategy. In 2010 they could only be ordered online and we have all seen the retail price and how much more it was than competitors in the same market segment.

It is only the massive price reductions seen in recent weeks that have seen people starting to buy them. And with those big reductions we will see the owners who did pay full retail getting one hell of a shock when it comes to trade in time given that they are now available second hand for under £8000, an inevitable result of the price drops on new and nearly new ones.

As for the dimensions of the bike, here are the figures taken from their own websites:-

.........................................GS....................Yam.................GSA

length............................. 2210mm...............2255................2240

width.................................915mm................980..................990

height...............................1450mm..............1410.................1525

weight (wet)........................229kg................261...................256

wheelbase.............................1507...............1540..................1510

The figures speak for themselves and show the GS as being smaller and lighter than the Yam in every respect apart from the height.

The GSA is shorter, a mere 10mm wider but is 115mm higher or 4.5 inches in real money. It is still lighter than the Yam, despite carrying an extra 10 litres of fuel.

So Rasher, from those figures, how do you work out that the Super Ten is more compact than the standard GS "in many ways"?

 

[Rasher]

Looks like your guess is on a par with your usual info Rasher. Spoked wheels are a £350 option

Where did that come from, according to the Yamaha Website:

For reliable performance over the toughest off-road obstacles, the Super Ténéré runs spoked, tubeless aluminium rims.

http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/products/motorcycles/adventure/xt1200z-super-tenere.aspx?view=features

 

[Rasher]

So Rasher, from those figures, how do you work out that the Super Ten is more compact than the standard GS "in many ways"?

By sitting on the fucking thing!

On my GS I am on tip toes at junctions, on the Yamaha my feet are planted on the floor.

The dimesions you post for width are probably at the mirrors which I do not sit on when riding a motorcycle

Similarly the engine does not jut out a mile and interefere with your legs, also when manouvering out of my garage I have to squeeze between two cars, the bars and mirrors (you know the wide bits) are up high and above the car doors, whereas my engine is keen to carve huge chunks out of next doors car - same thing in traffic, the engine often gets in the way more than any other part of the bike.

The part you (or at elast most normal riders) sit on seems a bit narrower and your legs are not splayed as much giving an overall impression of being smaller and certainly makes it easier to manouvre.

As to weight, well real measurements in bike magazine showed the Tenere a whopping 17kg more than their (dynaic + premium pack) GS, and you could knock 3-4kg off for the extra gallon the Yam takes, 15kg on a 240kg bike is not really a lot (6% if you prefer the numbers that way) and if you take into account the average 90kg for a rider in bike gear it comes down to 4%, two up with luggage 3%.

I have noticed that in the last year or so Bike Magazine gave away a 30 year GS supplement (probably funded by BMW) decided the GS was the best adventure bike (in a magazine with a large BMW advert of course) and more recently decided it was the best bike of 30 years (with the magazine carrying 3 full pages of BMW advertising)

It often seems BMW are the darling of the Motorcycle press, magazines always describe them as bulletproof, used buyers guides seem to fail to mention the FD / EWS / FPC issues, yet when you see other bikes featured used they point out the slightest weaknesses. As there are only a couple of large media groups owning nearly all motoring titles I am guessing their execs all have BMW cars - but I cannot prove that, just wonder why BMW always get a rather too glowing report.

I believe they also "mistakenly" ran the Tenere on the dyno in the muted Touring mode.

I think anyone who has ridden a Tenere would agree it beats the GS hands down below 3k (yes even the twin cam model) and fuels / pulls perfectly from under 2k in top gear - something neither my GS nor the 2010 ones I have ridden will do.

I agree with all comments on the bike being ridiculously priced, and would not argue with anyone who cliams the GS "character" gives it an edge, but the bike IMO has had some poor press it really does not deserve.

The closest spec would be a GS with dynamic pack, which I guess is about £12k and perhaps that would have been a better starting price for Mr yamaha, if not maybe a bit cheaper as BMW are generally considered to be a premium brand, and certainly in this market the GS is the premium bike everyone has to aim for.

 

[BBB61]

Where did that come from, according to the Yamaha Website:




http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/products/motorcycles/adventure/xt1200z-super-tenere.aspx?view=features

It came from the BMW website, which if you had read my post properly you would have realised that.

 

[BBB61]

By sitting on the fucking thing!

On my GS I am on tip toes at junctions, on the Yamaha my feet are planted on the floor.

The fact that you are a short arse and can't reach the floor properly on your GS doesn't make the Super Ten more compact

The dimesions you post for width are probably at the mirrors which I do not sit on when riding a motorcycle

The figures are posted by the manufacturers so why not take it up with them. If the width is measured including the mirrors then it is very relevant, especially when it comes to filtering past vans and similar sized vehicles.

Similarly the engine does not jut out a mile and interefere with your legs, also when manouvering out of my garage I have to squeeze between two cars, the bars and mirrors (you know the wide bits) are up high and above the car doors, whereas my engine is keen to carve huge chunks out of next doors car - same thing in traffic, the engine often gets in the way more than any other part of the bike.

Maybe you should learn to ride the bike properly if you are having problem with filtering If squeezing between the two cars and the pots are causing a problem, where exactly are you pushing it from? Do you push from behind? I ask because the problem I have when trying to push a bike between a small gap is getting it AND myself through the same gap, so it wouldn't make any difference if the bike had a flat twin or not in that situation.

The part you (or at elast most normal riders) sit on seems a bit narrower and your legs are not splayed as much giving an overall impression of being smaller and certainly makes it easier to manouvre.

So, an impression and nothing more, not based on anything measurable.

As to weight, well real measurements in bike magazine showed the Tenere a whopping 17kg more than their (dynaic + premium pack) GS, and you could knock 3-4kg off for the extra gallon the Yam takes, 15kg on a 240kg bike is not really a lot (6% if you prefer the numbers that way) and if you take into account the average 90kg for a rider in bike gear it comes down to 4%, two up with luggage 3%.

The wet weights published by both BMW and Yamaha are both "real" as they are fully fuelled up. The difference in fuel capacity between the two bikes is three litres, not a gallon, which would make a difference in weight of 2.1kg, not "3-4kg".

But we are not talking about a 240kg bike, we are looking at a 229 and 261kg bike. Add your 90kg rider to both and you get 319 and 351. A difference of 32kg is not 6%.

I have noticed that in the last year or so Bike Magazine gave away a 30 year GS supplement (probably funded by BMW) decided the GS was the best adventure bike (in a magazine with a large BMW advert of course) and more recently decided it was the best bike of 30 years (with the magazine carrying 3 full pages of BMW advertising)

And over the years Bike have given away loads of supplements for relating to bikes produced by a variety of manufacturers.

It often seems BMW are the darling of the Motorcycle press, magazines always describe them as bulletproof, used buyers guides seem to fail to mention the FD / EWS / FPC issues, yet when you see other bikes featured used they point out the slightest weaknesses. As there are only a couple of large media groups owning nearly all motoring titles I am guessing their execs all have BMW cars - but I cannot prove that, just wonder why BMW always get a rather too glowing report.

Maybe because it is all in your mind? And we have all seen the results of the material produced there.

I believe they also "mistakenly" ran the Tenere on the dyno in the muted Touring mode.

Why don't you ask them what mode they ran the bike in, as I suspect most here don't have much faith in your beliefs.

I think anyone who has ridden a Tenere would agree it beats the GS hands down below 3k (yes even the twin cam model) and fuels / pulls perfectly from under 2k in top gear - something neither my GS nor the 2010 ones I have ridden will do.

I've not ridden the Super Ten so I can't comment, but I do have a twin cam RT which pulls from under 2000rpm in top gear nicely with no issues whatsoever. I wonder what the experience of others who have ridden both is?

I agree with all comments on the bike being ridiculously priced, and would not argue with anyone who cliams the GS "character" gives it an edge, but the bike IMO has had some poor press it really does not deserve.

Which is your opinion of course. I've not read any of the press articles about the Super Ten so I can't comment. Perhaps others have and would be prepared to add their opinion?

The closest spec would be a GS with dynamic pack, which I guess is about £12k and perhaps that would have been a better starting price for Mr yamaha, if not maybe a bit cheaper as BMW are generally considered to be a premium brand, and certainly in this market the GS is the premium bike everyone has to aim for.

At long last you are talking sense. £11945 is the price with the dynamic pack for the GS. But Yamaha set out their stall at £13k and by the dramatic price drops they have realised they have made a big mistake. But it is not just the bike price. £297 for heated grips and £770 for panniers is pretty steep, compared with £230 for the grips on a GS and £505 for the vario panniers.

 

[Tobers]

Jeez you guys are anal. Dont you have anything better to do.