Twice Bitten - now very relucatant to get back on the horse

[cookie]

at the risk of cementing the pompous, arrogant moron tag, I'd say if he's nervous of such a thing happening again to any great extent, perhaps riding a bike is not for him.
my old bike went on reserve while overtaking a car at speed on a roundabout this evening. it was awkward, but I'm still here

yes, the fuel pump thing is a problem. yes, bmw should have sorted it out, but as I wrote in my PM, bmw dont exactly have a great track record for putting defects right in any long term way.

buy a Honda, get the bus. I dont see the answer to your friends nervousness having a quick fix from bmw. shameful IMO but realistic.

 

[GSmonkey]

I lost power on my previous 12, whilst doing an overtake towards an oncoming bus. It doesn't exactly rank very highly in my 'best biking moments'. It definately un-nerved me for a time. It does seem to be a weak point in the 12 design, which doesn't really appear to have been rectified in the facelift model.

 

[Decster]

It seems to me he has to make a choice;

- to give up riding bikes

- to give up riding BM* bikes

- to give up his current bike and get an older more reliable GS, 1100 or 1150

but it seems Andy, at this stage no-one has had more than 2 failures of the pump. Does he trust the brand? I wouldn't! New EU laws, need for profit, faceless corporations etc.....mean that IMO he should get an older more reliable GS and bling it, out if he wants, to his own specs.

Goodluck to your mate.

 

[Clive]

I'd say if he's nervous of such a thing happening again to any great extent, perhaps riding a bike is not for him.

Indeed.

First GS 40,000 miles - no problem with fuel pump sensor.
Second GS 22,000 miles - no problem with fuel pump sensor.

Maybe lucky?. Maybe because the first thing I did was take it apart and apply additional waterproofing? After washing I check that area and dry as required.

I fully expect it to go wrong at some stage and have been carrying a spare one for the last 3 years and also the tools to change it at the side of the road.

YMMV

 

[judge]

I'm appreciating the more measured responses this time guys, thank you. I will pass this on and encourage him to join his fellow 1200 pilots in the self help therapy group here.

Maybe as a counselling exercise I should offer him my GS for a week and see if I can't help restore his faith in the marque

As an aside I'll respond to some aspects of Cookies PM'd reply to me citing a less than brilliant track record in rectifying faults with GS's over the years by saying in the case of Airheads brakes, they are not known for failing, they are poor, are always poor and can only be improved by throwing modifications at them - they have never 'failed' on me in 6 years and 2 bikes.

Paralever drive shafts - I've had one fail at approx 50k and it wasn't the sudden failure that threatened my very existence by locking up the bike and spitting me off but a gradual failure over weeks and I've heard but one person who has experienced it any other way than me And 50k out of a component part sounds like fair game to me, much like a clutch, seals, cables etc. I expect and accept if I put in the miles then components such as these will fail and it doesn't deter me.

But 6 months out of 2nd sensor and 14 months out of the first seems to suggest the problem worsening no? I'm guessing its a bit of blind faith that the 3rd one of the same type will be the one which causes no further episode of this particular failure?

Richard, if he retains the failed component and bike, its yours I will sort it.

 

[araspitfire]

If I may just chuck my 2c in here...

I'm of the pragmatic nature... I like the bike, even though it has warts... If I experience any of these failures now that I'm out of warantee... I may not like the bike anymore, but for now I like it...

Mechanical things fail... this is a good reason not to ride it to the extremes of your ability... aircraft pilots are always looking at the ground picking a place to put it down if they have a power failure... Always planning for failure....

motorcyclists who have good reason to keep breathing should always be asking themselves "what do I do if I have power loss right now?... what do I do if I have to rely on residual braking now?..." Simple self preservation really and even on a Honda....


Al...

 

[cookie]

the brake was a bad example, but i'd suggest that permanently having brakes on a par with 60s motorcycle equipment, is more dangerous than running out of petrol occasionally

i don't consider a drive shaft lasting 50K much good either. the one in my car has done 162K with no trauma.

 

[John Armstrong]

Just a thought, could there be another fault that is cleared by replacing the pump controller, eg pin not seating 100% in the socket, corrosion on the plug / socket interface?

 

[Wapping]

I'm appreciating the more measured responses this time guys, thank you. I will pass this on and encourage him to join his fellow 1200 pilots in the self help therapy group here.

Richard, if he retains the failed component and bike, its yours I will sort it.

Many thanks for the part, if your chum can spare it.

I, too, had a similar 'fuel failures' to GSMonkey on my vanilla 1200.

I (like many others) found that it happened infrequently, when gunning it out of mountain hairpins or on sharp overtakes. The great and the good all said, "Fuel pump" – This surprised my as the fault was very occasional.


After I bit of thought I surmised that it was me, not the fuel pump, which was at fault. In my excitement of accelerating I was lifting my left foot slightly, getting ready for the up change. I was lifting the gears into a false neutral but no forward motion, almost as if the fuel supply had died. As this manifested itself whilst I was hung out to dry in the oncoming traffic lane made it seem only more dramatic.


The false neutral was only momentary as the upward travel of my foot engaged the gear properly. Since learning that my otherwise perfect 1200’s gearbox was not quite as slick as Mr Honda’s FireBlade, all was well....


I am sure your friend will be happy with his GSA, once the new fuel regulator is in place.

 

[Clive]

Just a thought, could there be another fault that is cleared by replacing the pump controller, eg pin not seating 100% in the socket, corrosion on the plug / socket interface?

I was thinking the same.

The thing is there for a reason - BMW must have had many more failures of that part, than is reported here, yet their only change (on the GS) is to angle the tank area more.

I'd also be interested in how the owners that have failures, wash their bikes. Maybe washing it after use, i.e. when it is very hot and then quickly cooled, allows water past the seal which then, later, "steams" the underside of the component

 

[Tramperman]

Fuel pump relay connections..

As we all know this fuel pump relay is a potential "full stop".
It only takes a few minutes (a good few more if you have upper crash bars!)
to "whip" it out. Clear the crap out of the reccess with the airline. Check the contacts are clean and no corrosion present. Replace unit if is suspect.
Clear silicone around the blue coloured seal (or it seat). PS. Not the one you sit on!!
Pop it back in.......... sorted.
Very very bad design Mr BMW.
Needs to be checked reasonably often, 'speshly before long trips.
AND take care with the ole hose pipe, when washing (the bike)

 

[wilbjr21]

I find it very difficult to accept that the failure of the controller is down to water ingress caused by the unit siting in water. It's an aluminium heat sink and the top connector is sealed. If water gets past the sealing ring into the lower cavity then yes, this will cause connector problems. But this does not seem to be the normal failure mode.

It's surely down to the electronics failing.

 

[cookie]

I find it very difficult to accept that the failure of the controller is down to water ingress caused by the unit siting in water

well, bmw did issue a revised seal to prevent water ingress into the lower cavity. they also now recommend coating the whole shooting match in sealant whose only use i can see would be to double protect that seal.

also, failure of these units on other bmw models that don't have it sited in a pool of water is extremely rare

having said that, i still think there's more to it than the unit getting wet.

 

[Wapping]

I was thinking the same.

The thing is there for a reason - BMW must have had many more failures of that part, than is reported here, yet their only change (on the GS) is to angle the tank area more.

I'd also be interested in how the owners that have failures, wash their bikes. Maybe washing it after use, i.e. when it is very hot and then quickly cooled, allows water past the seal which then, later, "steams" the underside of the component

I think this washing thing may have something in it.

I only wash my bike infrequently but did so on Sunday, empowered by a jet wash. I then took off the side panel, to start the process of making the work-around.

I have had no problems with my controller but there it was, neck deep in aqua. I emptied it out and removed the contoller. Underneath was completely dry. That doesn't mean of course that it doesn't fill with simple rain, too. I simply haven't looked.

Surely, if the lower plugs corroded, BuMW would replace the controller and the female socket on top of the fuel pump itself, but they don't.

Robin, who had fuel controller failure, sent me his male lower plug. It was virginal in its appearance, no hint of corrosion.

The problem would seem to be inside the controller unit. Whether it's frying, boiling or flooding is a different matter.

 

[Marjorie Proops]

I'm with Araspitfire on this one.

If you choose to drive/ride (or whatever else) on the basis that nothing should go wrong or you are in deep poo then perhaps you should reconsider the mathematical odds against you.

If on the other hand, you choose to ride (or whatever) on the basis that things will fail (and the rest of Murphy's law) and adjust your expectations accordingly, you may, just may, make it through without serious mishap.

1) Assess the risk.
2) Reduce the risk where possible.
3) Decide if the reduced risk is one that you can accept.


Under 2) above Andy, your mate may wish to consider for example whether it is possible to both modify his riding style and modify the engineering set up of the bike to reduce the risk of catastrophic failure TO A LEVEL ACCEPTABLE TO HIM.

If he cannot get that risk down to an acceptable level, then there is only one other option really.

Steve

 

[Backmarker]

If he cannot get that risk down to an acceptable level, then there is only one other option really.

Steve

Buy a Honda?

 

[Stephen Shury]

My 6 month old 1200GS has 'dumped' me by the road twice in 3 days recently, which was traced to faulty/corroded fuel pump electrics - I was told by my dealer that if the bike is left parked on its sidestand in heavy rain, that water runs across the bike under the seat, can bypass a faulty seal and run into the fuel pump electrics that sit under the left hand cover plate below the tank. They've replaced the corroded parts and the faulty seal with curent items and assured me it won't happen again. Seems its a 'known' fault, so a little annoyed that a recall wasn't issued, but to give BMW their due, it was quickly and efficiently dealt with.

 

[luckylucian]

Perhaps there should be a waterproof seal on the bottom connection, having +ve and -ve contacts next to each other in a small pond does seem a dull idea and must contribute toward the controllers failure.

 

[Backmarker]

oh FFS!

pompous, arrogant moron i might be, but in this particular case you have either misread my post, or i haven't made myself clear

i was not "dissing" the independant techs. i just personally don't like the way mechanics, whether at main dealers or otherwise are now referred to as Technicians. i prefer to think of them as mechanics. it's good enough for me, it's good enough for them. i was actually sneering at the term *technician*. a term that often equates to "component changer" in my experience.

Okaydokay. I had had a drink (first time in a week I had managed to get to the pub) and I am sensitive to this issue. Very. So no offence. But if someone decides to self define themselves as a 'Technician' not a 'Mechanic' then I really dont think that anyone else has the right to label them otherwise.
And I accept that this may be incomprehensible to most, in my world, the right to self define is absoulutely crucial, and something people have fought very hard for. Civil Rights and all that.
But I accept that the Technician/mechanic label might not be a civil rights issue, the right to self define often is.

 

[judge]

Well apart from the beer-strewn rant from backstop this thread has been very enlightening - but I cannot steer myself away from how stunned I am with the 'acceptance' to this failure or rather for most of you the potential for failure, surely no bike is good enough to expose you to the uncontrollable and very real danger in the way it has for my friend.

The risks of motorcycling are a given for all of us but generally they shouldn't extend to serious design faults in any motorcycle and this particular model has been subject to an update and yet it remains

I guess its fairly simplistic, until this happens to you in a similar way to my mate its a case of blind faith that it won't happen to you and utter relief it hasn't - seems to me my friends bad luck was a cigarette paper away from fatal luck. And I guess it matters to me as I know the person involved

He had an interesting time at his meeting in Bracknell today with some suits (a timely meeting indeed), and Cookie seriously top marks to your crystal ball on what the likely response would be

Can I have six numbers for Saturdays lotto please