UK & EU insurance

[grantmac]

So here's a problem....I live half my time in UK (work) and other half in NL.
If I wanted to buy a new bike say a GSA the price difference in UK is big so buying here would be a better idea.
What about insurance then. If I buy the bike here and then move it to NL will any insurance cover it? Probably not because the bike is parked in NL. But if i register it at my UK (London) address and ride it over there surely it wont be an issue? How would they know if i kept it garaged in UK or NL and rode it here or wherever? Insurance is insurance right? Appreciate some feedback.

 

[er-minio]

I've asked myself that question as I had to spend more time abroad lately with a view of doing a 50/50 split later on.

My understanding is:

How would they know if i kept it garaged in UK or NL and rode it here or wherever? Insurance is insurance right?

They probably won't know until you claim and have to provide "proof" of various things.
Most insurances cover only third party after 30 days abroad, keep that in mind. Some stretch to 90 days.

You also have the '6 months' registration rule, but being NL it's fairly easy to pop back and forth.


I'd consider fire and theft essentially nihl in a situation like yours to be honest. At least with standard contracts.
Let's see what the experts suggest.

 

[wessie]

Is your driving licence NL? If so, this will be a barrier to some underwriters. You need to speak to a broker more used to dealing with complicated situations. @Wapping has a list of said brokers. I'm sure they have had to write policies for awkward johnny foreigners before

 

[Pukmeister]

As with any insurance, the devil is in the detail.

Anything undeclared at time of insuring could be your downfall in the event of a claim.

 

[Davey B]

Which country is your country of residence? Start from there I suppose....and as above, read the small print re periods of insurance when the bike is taken abroad from the UK (which links back to where you live....)

 

[grantmac]

country of residence is NL although i have both NL & UK citizenship and pay taxes in both location.
To answer Wessies' question - yes i have an NL drivers license, forgot about that......

 

[er-minio]

I've been insured for years in the UK (resident in the UK taxes paid in the UK) with my Italian license sans issues.
I converted to UK after 7 or 8 years at least.

 

[G&T]

A note re BMW finance.

You are in breach of contract if the bike is out of country more than 30 days. Or so I read on the small print.

 

[Wapping]

Grant,

Let’s start with the basics.

If the vehicle is registered in the UK, then you might find it challenging to have a Dutch insurer insure it. I say this only as insuring a foreign registered vehicle with a UK insurer is not always straightforward. Might the Dutch see it differently? I don’t know.

Not surprisingly, most UK insurers work to satisfy the lowest common denominator, which is that the vast majority of the UK, live permanently in the UK, drive in the UK and (only occasionally) go abroad in or on their vehicle. The day-to-day insurers are not set up to deal with bods who live abroad, float in and out across the North Sea and / or those that want to pull a deal over the relative costs of vehicles between one country and another.

Three key and very simple questions you will be asked are:

What licence to drive the vehicle do you hold? Pretty simple to answer, truthfully. The answer constitutes a material fact,

What is your permanent address? That is a very simple question, the answer to which is also a material fact.

Where is the vehicle garaged? Again, a very simple question. If, truthfully, it spends most of its life in The Hague, not in London’s Docklands, then that - put very simply - is another material fact.

Lie over some or all of the questions and all sorts of trouble might come your way, if and when the chips fall the wrong way. I should imagine that the insurer who has cancelled your policy from inception for non-disclosure of a material fact, might just be the icing on the cake of shite, when talking to the police, looking at a queue of schoolgirls you have somehow mowed down. You do though speak good Dutch and English, which should be of some help, as you will not need an interpreter.

 

[wessie]

If the vehicle is registered in the UK, then you might find it challenging to have a Dutch insurer insure it. I say this only as insuring a foreign registered vehicle with a UK insurer is not always straightforward. Might the Dutch might see it differently? I don’t know.

a UK registered vehicle not insured on a UK issued policy is going to throw up some challenges as it will not show as insured on the Motor Insurance Database used to issue RFL and by ANPR. Every police car and camera van will be pinging away merrily.

 

[Wapping]

a UK registered vehicle not insured on a UK issued policy is going to throw up some challenges as it will not show as insured on the Motor Insurance Database used to issue RFL and by ANPR. Every police car and camera van will be pinging away merrily.

Good point, well made.

 

[grantmac]

No-one is talking about lying Richard, this is not my point. I wanted to see if it was materially possible. Of course I don't want to jeopardize any legality nor validity of coverage. That would simply be crazy and dangerous.

Material facts, as you put it, are as follows:

1. What license do I have - NL Driving license. Not UK
2. Where is my place of residence - The Hague Holland as this is my primary residence but I am 4 days resident per week in London every week more or less.
3. Vehicle could be kept in UK or NL and I could take it over to NL when I wanted. Preferably kept in NL as I have garage space - apparently this is the big issue.

Finally the vehicle would be on UK plates, and UK Tax / MOT and yes, you are right, Dutch insurers wont touch it. If it were on NL plates would an NL insurer only allow 30 days outside of NL? - no clue but defeats the object of getting a better deal in UK.

Basically if I read above also from Er-minio the license issue should be OK. I could then register, tax and insure said vehicle to my address in UK and take the bike over on holiday to EU when I wanted. Shifting said vehicle to NL outside or in excess of the 30 days could render insurance null and void, so even if they could not check this time period it would be a false claim if i stated ''i'd only come over on my travels last week before the accident sir'', when said bike had been in my garage all along in NL....

Seems therefore case closed...... Buy the vehicle in NL, tax and insure it in NL and keep in in NL.....

 

[er-minio]

Yes, do that.

Regarding the license.
I've been resident (living and taxes) in the UK since 2007.
I never replaced my driving license until when I bought the HP2 Sport (2014) and I started having issues with the high premium a few years after that, say 2016.

Insurer told me that I was still holding an Italian license and they saw that as "dodgy" so that would push the premium price up.
I immediately converted my driving license. Prices never went down but happy ever since.

I've had my GS in Italy for about 4/5 months at some time, then I flew back to pick it up.
My understanding of the policy at the time was that the bike was on the minimum third party cover because of the over 30 days abroad, but this will obviously change from insurer to insurer.

 

[grantmac]

I've had my GS in Italy for about 4/5 months at some time, then I flew back to pick it up.
My understanding of the policy at the time was that the bike was on the minimum third party cover because of the over 30 days abroad, but this will obviously change from insurer to insurer.

Exactly Er-minio, that's the part I find interesting. Basically the same situation but in reverse........

 

[er-minio]

Yes. In my case I'm not massively bothered as my GS has the same (market) value of a bag of crisps.
I'm more worried because of sentimental value usually.

 

[Wapping]

Or, buy it in the UK, keep it in the UK, riding it from time time into Europe, and wait for X years, after which the import duty falls away I think. Then import it into Holland and re-register it. Several Danes I know, working in Luxembourg, do that with Luxembourg registered vehicles, where the price differential is significant between Luxembourg and Denmark.

Alternatively, wait a year or so and pick-up a secondhand 1300 GSA in the UK and import that into Holland, perhaps? I think secondhand vehicles are treated differently? Not least, they are ‘worth’ less, so (I assume) the tax burden reduces.

Just thinking aloud, BMW, Park Lane has (or at least used to have) an entire department dealing with ‘tax free’ exports of cars. See if they have any ideas. I guess you’d be hit with Dutch import taxes and whatever, but there might still be some sort of saving? Even 5% on EUR lots and lots, might make it worthwhile?

 

[Wapping]

My understanding of the policy at the time was that the bike was on the minimum third party cover because of the over 30 days abroad, but this will obviously change from insurer to insurer.

Was that your understanding because you wanted it to be that way? ie. That the 30 day limitation did not apply to the third party section. Did your policy actually say that or did you simply want it to say that, as it suited you to do so?

 

[grantmac]

Actually the original question was based on loose past experience.....
I bought a Triumph Rocket 3 Touring in 2011 from a place in Romford that's no longer a Triumph Dealer......
Had it on UK plates and moved it to NL. After much searching I found an insurance broker and told them my story. They agreed to insure me even though bike was based in NL saying its OK to have the vehicle 6 months out of the year outside UK. I took the risk.
Vehicle stayed on UK plates. NL authorities didn't care. One of my riding mates is a NL bike cop and he said police don't care as long as you have the relevant paperwork including insurance. NL customs, however would have other ideas as the max time you can have a vehicle in NL and NOT on NL plates is 12 months....but whose checking.....almost no-one.
Finally after 3 years when MOT was due, I couldn't be bothered to take it back to UK to have it MOT'd so imported it (officially) to NL, paid the (by then reduced) import duties and put it on NL plates.
Since then went back to original insurers and they declined to be of assistance
Also this was all was pre Brexshit.....

 

[Wapping]

OK, so find another specialist broker / insurer, who will do it the way you want to do it.

You might have more luck in Holland. There used to be a Dutch outfit (or maybe they were German) who offered an apparently ‘global’ insurance for bods carting off to, say, Australia overland. Maybe though the fundamental difference between someone setting off for a year to ride to Australia via Brazil, is that they are on the move, with no ‘permanent’ address. You are (pretty much) to all intents and purposes permanently resident in Holland, at a specific address, firmly inside the EU.

The Horizons Unlimited forum might have some ideas, not least as bods are more ‘global’ than the rather UK-centric UKGSer forum.

 

[wessie]

Or, buy it in the UK, keep it in the UK, riding it from time time into Europe, and wait for X years, after which the import duty falls away I think. Then import it into Holland and re-register it. Several Danes I know, working in Luxembourg, do that with Luxembourg registered vehicles, where the price differential is significant between Luxembourg and Denmark.

easier to get away with the insurance debacle as there is no effective border crossing from Lux to DK as both in Schengen. A Lux insurer would have to try hard to prove the bike had been in DK for 6 months when it was stolen assuming there was no tracker data to betray it. UK to NL involves ferry or tunnel which can be easily checked.